Shami-Umesh outbowled our spinners

[rkt.india]

24 minutes ago, Lord said:

How do you know 5th bowler was Mishra and not Umesh?

 

There might have been thought of playing 3 spinners+Shami

Umesh played last test against NZ, not Mishra. So, clearly, Mishra was the 5th bowler. Also, we mostly play 2 seamer and 2 spinners and 3rd spinner only comes in to play on a a rank turner like It was in Nagpur against SA where we only played with one seamer.

[putrevus]

Just now, rkt.india said:

you dont need 2 spinners overseas.

With quality of Indian pacers and their inability to build pressure by giving away boundary ball every over, I would want play two spinners every where with Ashwin as all rounder.3+2 combination is a must on those pitches.

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

With quality of Indian pacers and their inability to build pressure by giving away boundary ball every over, I would want play two spinners every where with Ashwin as all rounder.3+2 combination is a must on those pitches.

This is impractical. We do play 2 spinners but in ODIs and we were blanked both in NZ and Aus in ODI series. None of the spinners did anything of note. Ashwin picked up 1 wicket in 4 matches in NZ.

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

This is impractical. We do play 2 spinners but in ODIs and we were blanked both in NZ and Aus in ODI series. None of the spinners did anything of note. Ashwin picked up 1 wicket in 4 matches in NZ.

I said play two spinners who can do the job without depending totally on pitches to do the job for them .I do not  see anytime in near future three quality pace bowlers playing for India.As Clive Lloyd once said you just do not play spinners for sake of playing them in India.You just play your best bowlers it does not matter if they are fast bowlers or spinners.Same logic should applied to Indians playing abroad.

[Lannister]

They need to enjoy their bowling more. Sometimes they give me this impression that they are forced to work in a building construction, especially Shami and his strained looks. 

[express bowling]

The way Shami and Umesh have consistently targeted the off stump at pace,  throughout the day, is praiseworthy. We have seen this in the NZ series too. 

 

The only addition I would like is for them to use bouncers more frequently. Even if the ball does not bounce consistently due to the pitch, it makes the batters more tentative while coming forward and make the pitched up deliveries more potent.

 

Ashwin has disappointed on this track. The English left-arm spinner was getting more turn than him on this pitch. He is our star bowler and needs to look more potent on flat pitches.

Edited November 10, 2016 by express bowling

[Laaloo]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

The way Shami and Umesh have consistently targeted the off stump at pace,  throughout the day, is praiseworthy. We have seen this in the NZ series too. 

 

The only addition I would like is for them to use bouncers more frequently. Even if the ball does not bounce consistently due to the pitch, it makes the batters more tentative while coming forward and make the pitched up deliveries more potent.

 

Ashwin has disappointed on this track. The English left-arm spinner was getting more turn than him on this pitch. He is our star bowler and needs to look more potent on flat pitches.

Ashwin was bowling mainly middle and leg for some odd reason. Every ball I saw to Stokes/Cook and other left handers were on middle and leg. Very disappointed. Hope he learns from it. And it was criminal not to dish out more short balls to Ali.

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, putrevus said:

I said play two spinners who can do the job without depending totally on pitches to do the job for them .I do not  see anytime in near future three quality pace bowlers playing for India.As Clive Lloyd once said you just do not play spinners for sake of playing them in India.You just play your best bowlers it does not matter if they are fast bowlers or spinners.Same logic should applied to Indians playing abroad.

Same goes for spinners overseas. We might not have great pacers but whatever we have won overseas is mostly due to pacers.

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Same goes for spinners overseas. We might not have great pacers but whatever we have won overseas is mostly due to pacers.

That is why we won so little overseas, unless spinners who are more used to taking wickets start pitching in to take wickets we will end up with disastrous results.

Indian team started having more success at home on good pitches after fast bowlers started pitching in to help spinners.

 

[Muloghonto]

5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I also got vindicated. I always say if your top 4 bowlers dont do well, it is highly unlikely that your 5th bowler will make a difference. If your 5th bowler was so, he would automatically be your preferred choice of your top 4 bowlers. As 5th bowler, you only need someone who could bowl 5-10 overs a day, a batsman who could bowl half decently.

Even if you have a world class bowling attack, what you are saying is true if and only if one of your 4 frontline bowlers is not an allrounder.

If they are an allrounder, the case for 5th bowler is strong, especially in test cricket, because your allrounder can be ineffective periodically based on match scenario : i wouldn't expect an a spinner to bowl 30 overs the day after batting for 4 hours shepherding the tail or a pace bowling allrounder to immediately open the bowling after spending 5 hours in the middle. On a consistent basis that is. 

 

If there is no allrounder in the squad, then yes, it makes way more sense to include 4 frontline bowlers + 1 batsman who can get us 10-0-35-0 for one day of test bowling, over 5 bowlers, two of whom are 20-25 runs average lower order bats.

[rkt.india]

10 hours ago, putrevus said:

That is why we won so little overseas, unless spinners who are more used to taking wickets start pitching in to take wickets we will end up with disastrous results.

Indian team started having more success at home on good pitches after fast bowlers started pitching in to help spinners.

 

Like we never had pacers who could win us games overseas, we never such spinners too, so, why you are expecting we will suddenly produce such spinners who will win us overseas. Expecting spinners to win teams matches in places like SA, NZ, and England is beyond logic. Even the likes of Murli could not do that and I am sure you are not going to get many better spinners than Murli.

[Sooda]

^ Mushtaq Ahmed has bowled Pak to victories in SA and Eng. 

[Vilander]

Eng has played one innings they need to play several more