MARK MY WORD - Rishabh Pant to be the next Virat Kohli of Indian cricket

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, cric_fan said:

Kumble said Pant was left out for the more experienced Parthiv. Sounds like a Pakistani selector lol.

completely agree. This is mostly a Pakistani trait, keep recycling old hash likes of Akmal, Afridi, Malik, etc. We are becoming the same. Think if we had not picked Virat at the age of 19, he probably would have gone the Manish Pandey way and debuting at 26 for us. Kohli never set domestic cricket on fire. 

[Soorma_Bhopali]

8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

completely agree. This is mostly a Pakistani trait, keep recycling old hash likes of Akmal, Afridi, Malik, etc. We are becoming the same. Think if we had not picked Virat at the age of 19, he probably would have gone the Manish Pandey way and debuting at 26 for us. Kohli never set domestic cricket on fire. 

+1

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

completely agree. This is mostly a Pakistani trait, keep recycling old hash likes of Akmal, Afridi, Malik, etc. We are becoming the same. Think if we had not picked Virat at the age of 19, he probably would have gone the Manish Pandey way and debuting at 26 for us. Kohli never set domestic cricket on fire. 

Didn't do badly either - but there were some players selected early those days. Kohli, Ishant, etc

[Samcric]

12 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I don't see short ball as a huge problem. Short ball is a problem only when your front foot stops moving due to the anticipation of short ball like in case of Raina.

Wrong. In that case, the over-pitched sucker ball is the problem because a batsman will try to drive without taking his front foot closer to the ball. When playing the short ball, there are two main things - first, balance has to be on the back foot so that you give yourself more chance of playing a pull or hook and have slightly more time. Secondly, an early assessment of length, line and most importantly height so that you can decide on one of the five things to do - duck, sway outside the line, move inside the line to leave/glance, pull or hook. More than the movement of front foot, it is the balance - if your balance is on your front foot, it is harder to negotiate unless you are a Ricky Ponting.

 

In fact, contrary to your point, if your front foot moves too far ahead, it is much more difficult to play deliveries that are above chest level. In Raina's case, the guy just could not appropriately decide on which ones to pull/hook/duck under. And when he pulled, could not roll his wrist over the ball to keep it down.

[Muloghonto]

No decent wicketkeeper in history has made international debut within a year or two of FC cricket and survived international cricket.

If we are not patient with Pant and take the next 2-3 years to introduce him to international cricket, we risk losing a potential Adam Gillchrist and ending up with a 'I don't keep anymore coz i am not good enough to do both & my batting is way ahead of my keeping' ABDV/Sangakkara the specialist bat.

 

Pant's main value to us will be as a wicketkeeper. Not as a batsman. India is not the country to worry about finding batsmen from positions 4-6. Our only bug-bear batting positions are openers, where except for Gavaskar, Sehwag & Vijay, we've struggled to turn out quality Test class opening batsmen. If we play Pant in international cricket before he has marinated in first class cricket for 2-3 years and developed his keeping, we risk losing a potential allrounder keeper (who is keeper and good enough to be a specialist batsman) and end up with yet another middle order batsman.

So shortsighted by the selectors and fans.....

 

[beetle]

I don't think Kumble should have so much power in decision making.He seems to be the top boss.

He is the coach and stick to that.

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

No decent wicketkeeper in history has made international debut within a year or two of FC cricket and survived international cricket.

If we are not patient with Pant and take the next 2-3 years to introduce him to international cricket, we risk losing a potential Adam Gillchrist and ending up with a 'I don't keep anymore coz i am not good enough to do both & my batting is way ahead of my keeping' ABDV/Sangakkara the specialist bat.

 

Pant's main value to us will be as a wicketkeeper. Not as a batsman. India is not the country to worry about finding batsmen from positions 4-6. Our only bug-bear batting positions are openers, where except for Gavaskar, Sehwag & Vijay, we've struggled to turn out quality Test class opening batsmen. If we play Pant in international cricket before he has marinated in first class cricket for 2-3 years and developed his keeping, we risk losing a potential allrounder keeper (who is keeper and good enough to be a specialist batsman) and end up with yet another middle order batsman.

So shortsighted by the selectors and fans.....

 

I think Taibu played pretty soon in international matches after his FC debut... proved to be a good keeper-batsman (not just by Zim standards).

[Texy]

After the failure of Unmukt Chand...don't believe in these hypes any more. Hoping, I am proven wrong. We need good WK bench strength. Whatever happened to the Kishan guy? 

[maniac]

1 hour ago, Texy said:

After the failure of Unmukt Chand...don't believe in these hypes any more. Hoping, I am proven wrong. We need good WK bench strength. Whatever happened to the Kishan guy? 

Chand looked like a rookie facing international bowlers in IPL...pant was smacking bowlers of similar stature like he was doing it all his life.

 

i believe in pant

[rkt.india]

22 hours ago, Vijy said:

 

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, Samcric said:

Wrong. In that case, the over-pitched sucker ball is the problem because a batsman will try to drive without taking his front foot closer to the ball. When playing the short ball, there are two main things - first, balance has to be on the back foot so that you give yourself more chance of playing a pull or hook and have slightly more time. Secondly, an early assessment of length, line and most importantly height so that you can decide on one of the five things to do - duck, sway outside the line, move inside the line to leave/glance, pull or hook. More than the movement of front foot, it is the balance - if your balance is on your front foot, it is harder to negotiate unless you are a Ricky Ponting.

 

In fact, contrary to your point, if your front foot moves too far ahead, it is much more difficult to play deliveries that are above chest level. In Raina's case, the guy just could not appropriately decide on which ones to pull/hook/duck under. And when he pulled, could not roll his wrist over the ball to keep it down.

You misunderstood the post. 

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, Texy said:

After the failure of Unmukt Chand...don't believe in these hypes any more. Hoping, I am proven wrong. We need good WK bench strength. Whatever happened to the Kishan guy? 

How is Unmukt a failure? Has he already played international cricket?

[Muloghonto]

6 hours ago, Vijy said:

I think Taibu played pretty soon in international matches after his FC debut... proved to be a good keeper-batsman (not just by Zim standards).

Even Taibu waited till mid 2001 for international debut after debuting in FC/List-A in mid-late 1999, so two years after FC debut.

This is as fast-tracked as Parthiv Patel and i must remind people that until he too showed 'like he belongs but needs more work' for the first 4-5 tests before falling off of a cliff that destroyed his confidence.

I don't think Pant's keeping is ready for international duty and until it is, he should be just left to marinate in FC cricket. We would rather have Pant show up at 21-22 and end up as a good keeper who averages 35-45 in Tests than a good/great batsman averaging 45-50+ in international cricket who gave up his keeping 'too young' because he qualified to the team as a batsman and focused on the batting development. 

That is the risk we run with Pant if we start picking him as a specialist bat so young. 

 

[beetle]

7 hours ago, maniac said:

Chand looked like a rookie facing international bowlers in IPL...pant was smacking bowlers of similar stature like he was doing it all his life.

 

i believe in pant

Chand got busy writing his memoirs......

[Cricketics]

I don't think Unmukt Chand is a failure. He was never looked as the prospect for test earlier.Also, Delhi played on more bowler friendly pitches compared to other teams and hence he hasn't really had the massive 45+ average unlike other players.  Most people who follow Ranji can relate to this.

But at the same time, Unmukt Chand hasn't been an outstanding player either. He needs to score some heavy runs to be noticed. He is still just 23 though and has plenty of time to rack up some big scores. I think his List A record isn't bad and we might surely see him in Indian ODI team at some point of time.

 

People are going by his failures in IPL. I don't think twenty20 format suits him. He likes to take his time and rotate strike. He can be a good ODI player if he can pick few things from Kohli like rotating strike etc.

[Bleed-Blue]

7 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

I don't think Unmukt Chand is a failure. He was never looked as the prospect for test earlier.Also, Delhi played on more bowler friendly pitches compared to other teams and hence he hasn't really had the massive 45+ average unlike other players.  Most people who follow Ranji can relate to this.

But at the same time, Unmukt Chand hasn't been an outstanding player either. He needs to score some heavy runs to be noticed. He is still just 23 though and has plenty of time to rack up some big scores. I think his List A record isn't bad and we might surely see him in Indian ODI team at some point of time.

 

People are going by his failures in IPL. I don't think twenty20 format suits him. He likes to take his time and rotate strike. He can be a good ODI player if he can pick few things from Kohli like rotating strike etc.

He does have 3 100's in t20 .

[Cricketics]

10 minutes ago, Bleed-Blue said:

He does have 3 100's in t20 .

Ya, but I think he has been given enough chances in IPL and having seen a lot of him against quality bowlers in IPL, I have noticed his struggles while trying to score at a higher run rate. He surely likes to score at better run rate but perhaps his game still is better for 50 overs.

 

Though, as you mentioned, if he has 3 100's in twenty20, he can surely make it up and be a good twen20 player but for that he has to perform at a bigger twent20 stage like IPL etc, otherwise it will be hard for him to be picked as twenty20 specialist.

[Bleed-Blue]

4 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Ya, but I think he has been given enough chances in IPL and having seen a lot of him against quality bowlers in IPL, I have noticed his struggles while trying to score at a higher run rate. He surely likes to score at better run rate but perhaps that better runrate suits more for 50 over cricket.

Personally i feel the oppposite i dont think he has been given a consistent run, he has been in and out alot, probably to do with the fact that teams like big name overseas openers.

[Cricketics]

2 minutes ago, Bleed-Blue said:

Personally i feel the oppposite i dont think he has been given a consistent run, he has been in and out alot, probably to do with the fact that teams like big name overseas openers.

May be, surely anyone can be a good twenty20 player. Even Virat started poorly in IPL and picked up his 2020 game later after establishing himself as a good ODI batsman. Unmukt Chand can also gain such confidence. I think exposure to Indian ODI team does wonders for you and helps you better your record in other formats. Test match can be moral destroying and twenty20 we just don't play enough for players to get proper chance. If somehow Unmukt can make it to Indian ODI team, from their he can gain confidence to do well in other formats.

[Samcric]

5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

You misunderstood the post. 

How so? Would you care to explain? Are you talking about the technical aspect of facing the short ball itself or the mental aspect of facing the next ball which could be full and your front foot does not move? Or is the point something entirely different that I might have missed?