Countdown to Shikhar Dhawan's Career End. Should be his last year.....

[Ankit_sharma03]

Here is a thing if we have to improve we cant stick to past laurels, individuals numbers shud be given less value than the impact on match of a player. 

 

For past few year our top 3 have been scoring runs despite we are loosing, many would blame our middle order which is correct but then the kind of cricket that has been played by top 3 hasnt helped the middle or lower. To many deilveries are being consumed and the already avg middle order comes under further pressure. So for me one opener has to go, as kohli cant and shudnt be even touched. 

 

For me it has to be dhawan. Todays innings is an example why,63 in 84 balls like really. Fine the ball was moving but once ur set u need to cover up coz thats what ur there for. Now had this 60+ runs scored in 50-60 balls those extra balls wud have meant extra runs and the diff lies there itself. 

Both openers may have number as pair to stick but what about the impact. Good teams have soughted it out that they dont rotate much and takes a lot of time to get set. Then they also can throw wkts anytime and as a result we cud be 30/2 in 10 overs or 50/2 in 16, which is what Sa, Nz exploited when we tour there. They both are vunerable against moving ball as well. This is were i always enjoyed watching gambhir and sehwag as not only they use to score but go for quick singles.

 

So Rohit vs Dhawan

1. Rohit individualy has done better

2. Rohit is a better fielder

3. Rohit change of gear is more dangerous than anyone

4. Dhawan scores well in big tournament so i give this point to him. (but that cant be the logic to keep him)

5. Rohit can destroy spinners where as dhawan is being troubled against right arm off spin.

6. Change can happen once there are replacements and Pant n rahul have provided that.

7. Dhawan has already lost place in 2 formats and his conifdence wud have been dented as he is confidence player. Also when ur dropped from 2 formats means team mngmt doesnt have same faith in u .

8. To many weakness of Dhawan has been exposed- off spin, into the ribs bowling, leg side play, obvious off side issue.

 

Powerplay are there to have an advantage not to consume and leave it to later stages. These kind of innings wud have had made more sense 10 yrs ago. A lineup of Dhawan, Rahane, raydu can play and please the people who enjoyed 10 yrs old cricket or people who enjoy individual number more than team victory. 

 

Putting a word- this year is dhawan's last year unless he piles on runs n runs. 

 

Rahul, rohit,kohli,nair, dhoni

Pant, rohit, kohli, Rahul, Dhoni

 

looks more impactful and obviously it needs to be tried. 

 

Dhawan has the numbers and has done really well, respect to that . But if we have to improve we have to look for players with better skill set. 

[veer]

For the longest i felt Dhawan is a player for subcontinent pitches.. doesnt survive whole lot in Aus/NZ/Eng/SA..

[Laaloo]

He was pretty lucky to be selected to be honest. There are players in the domestics who have done better than he did before being selected who never got chances. Obviously he took the chance and played a great knock against the Aussies. But I always thought he was never good. I remember when he was initially picked, ICFers were questioning his selection because he didn't merit a selection.

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, laaloo said:

He was pretty lucky to be selected to be honest. There are players in the domestics who have done better than he did before being selected who never got chances. Obviously he took the chance and played a great knock against the Aussies. But I always thought he was never good. I remember when he was initially picked, ICFers were questioning his selection because he didn't merit a selection.

HE got selected he did well, so those domestic numbers become irrelevant. More than numbers what matter is do u have it to play at next level and yes he had that. But the question now is - does he have a future to take his game to next level to which my observation is " no doesnt look like "

[express bowling]

Rohit, Rahul, Kohli, Nair, Dhoni, Pant, Pandya, Axar.....looks much more impactful to me than the current ODI line-up.

[mancalledsting]

Best batsmen in last champions trophy in England. Also batted well in ODI World Cup in Australia. 

[maniac]

Shikar is a 4 hitter and usually the impact is in the early PP overs with such players...he is not someone who will give you 20 runs overs with  6 hitting ability like Rohit..this was secret to Shikar's success early on...but these days looks very tentative and his loss of test form and not cutting it in T20 might have played a part

[putrevus]

Utter nonsense, Dhawan is still one of the best ODI batsman in the country and he should play as opener in CT. What has he done so bad to get these sort of sentiments.

[sandeep]

Don't read too much into this innings - it was a warm-up game and he needed a good tune-up in the middle after being out of the team.  He doesn't bat like this in ODIs - on the contrary, he is way more pro-active and selfless in the early overs, ready to take risks, than Mr. 264.  

 

Still, no denying that with being out of the test team, and Rahul hot on his heels, he will have to perform or perish.  Nothing wrong with healthy competition.  But going forward, I want to see the top 3 ODI bats judged in a blended metric of average and strike rate - and how they carry out the responsibility of setting up the innings momentum.  Not just in terms of 100s and 50s.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

18 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

Best batsmen in last champions trophy in England. Also batted well in ODI World Cup in Australia. 

Agreed but by that logic even gambhir,yuvraj shud have been carried in next wc. 

 

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Don't read too much into this innings - it was a warm-up game and he needed a good tune-up in the middle after being out of the team.  He doesn't bat like this in ODIs - on the contrary, he is way more pro-active and selfless in the early overs, ready to take risks, than Mr. 264.  

 

Still, no denying that with being out of the test team, and Rahul hot on his heels, he will have to perform or perish.  Nothing wrong with healthy competition.  But going forward, I want to see the top 3 ODI bats judged in a blended metric of average and strike rate - and how they carry out the responsibility of setting up the innings momentum.  Not just in terms of 100s and 50s.  

Not reading much into todays game but this has been goin on for a while, He is good but now there are better choices. 

U can choose inplace of rohit ur choice, but one has to go. 

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Agreed but by that logic even gambhir,yuvraj shud have been carried in next wc. 

 

Not reading much into todays game but this has been goin on for a while, He is good but now there are better choices. 

U can choose inplace of rohit ur choice, but one has to go. 

See my bunch of posts on today's match thread - I believe more than changing batsmen, we need a change in tactics.  At the most, a re-shuffle in the batting order.  

 

Quote

I don't think its beyond the likes of Rohit, Dhawan etc to change their approach.  KL Rahul can play the "new" way as well.  Kohli doesn't need to to change he's fine.  Its really the team mgmt that need to get the batting approach modified.  

 

Right now, Tailunt especially, targets the big innings, while Dhawan carries the burden alone of keeping the score moving at a good rate.  If we lose Dhawan early, we leave a minimum of 25 runs on the table in the first 20 overs.  That's not a problem that needs addressing with personnel - its a tactical problem.  

 

It might be sacrilege, but I would actually not want VK to come in before the  15th over or so - I want a KL Rahul coming in 1-drop if we lose an early wicket, and I want VK and MS to control the 15-40 middle stage.  Manish Pandey is there to back these 2 up, if one or both fail.  Batting order needs to be thought of in terms of the stage of the game and which over of the innings, instead of which wicket has fallen.  

 

The template should be 3 aggressors at the top - guys who are used to taking a bit of risk and hitting boundaries against the new ball with good level of consistency - if one of them goes on to bat big that's great, but their primary role is to set up the platform with 100+ SR.    Rohit, Dhawan and Rahul are ideal for this role.  

 

Then you want 2 or ideally 3 guys in the middle who are the spine of the batting and are able to control the game in the middle overs - keep scoring at 80+ but primarily tasked with building the innings and preventing collapses without digging too deep a run-rate hole.   VK, Dhoni and Manish Pandey can handle this role quite well.    

 

Add to this, you want 2 guys down the order in the Yusuf Pathan/Maxwell mould, who can give you big runs as soon as they get in, OK if they are a bit inconsistent - Pandya can be that guy, need one more.  Really missing 2011 version of Raina here.  Need to find the next-gen version - I think its beyond an aging Yuvi to play this role and start hitting from his first ball in.  

 

Current Indian team is playing one accumulator too many in the middle, and to make things worse, Rohit inspite of his all-world hitting abilities, takes a conservative approach - this is why we are falling short in ODIs. 

 

[maniac]

Dhawan has earned some more time,but if he plays like this,yes time is ticking...Dhawan is a rhythm player....first 4-5 deliveries tells you how it is going to go...last 3-4 innings he looked totally out of it. Let teh scores not fool you.

 

But yes he is the last of our problems right now and has earned his spot deservingly

 

[gattaca]

Being out of test team and to continue playing well in ODI is tough. He needs practice in ODIS.dhawan is a big match player. Remember him being dropped for a mumbaikar in t20 wc and how that turned out ? This silly part is kohli fell for it. Shashtri I am sure was brains behind that decision.

Edited January 10, 2017 by gattaca

[maniac]

Just now, gattaca said:

Being out of test team and to continue playing well in ODI is tough. He needs practice in ODIS.dhawan is a big match player. Remember him being dropped for a mumbaikar in t20 wc and how that turned out ? 

What has that got to do with anything? Yes Rahane played a poor innings but did you watch Dhawan's knocks before that,right from the Srilankan T20 series?

[GautiMaan]

This 10 overs 35/0 scoreline that we invariably get with Rohit and Dhawan is unacceptable and an unwanted departure from the days of Sachin/Dada/Viru/Gauti

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, GautiMaan said:

This 10 overs 35/0 scoreline that we invariably get with Rohit and Dhawan is unacceptable and an unwanted departure from the days of Sachin/Dada/Viru/Gauti

Dada was a notoriously starter and extremely poor rotator of strike.  Heavily reliant on boundaries, and catching up later to make his over-all SR look good.  Rohit is batting in the gangu-esque vein right now.  And you're absolutely right, we need to change this approach asap.

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 minutes ago, sandeep said:

See my bunch of posts on today's match thread - I believe more than changing batsmen, we need a change in tactics.  At the most, a re-shuffle in the batting order.  

But isnt this going for long for them to have understood by now. Yes change in tactic is important but look at the areas opp have figured him out in. 

 

8 minutes ago, gattaca said:

Being out of test team and to continue playing well in ODI is tough. He needs practice in ODIS.dhawan is a big match player. Remember him being dropped for a mumbaikar in t20 wc and how that turned out ? This silly part is kohli fell for it. Shashtri I am sure was brains behind that decision.

As if he was doing wonder before getting dropped. 

Kanne ko andhe ke liye drop krne wali baat hai 

[mancalledsting]

8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Agreed but by that logic even gambhir,yuvraj shud have been carried in next wc. 

 

Not reading much into todays game but this has been goin on for a while, He is good but now there are better choices. 

U can choose inplace of rohit ur choice, but one has to go. 

not the same logic.  Come CT2017 Gambhir and Yuvraj will both be 35 whereas Dhawan will be 31. Also Yuvraj and Gambhir never played in CT 2013 or World Cup 2015 and were last in form in WC 2011. 

 

when improving a team, you look to first correct positions of weakness and continue with  strength. Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan have been our best batsmen in recent ODI history and so it wouldn't be prudent to interfere with their positions. 

 

Spots up for grab are no.4, 5 and 6. Any new batsmen will have to slot in there. 

[maniac]

India can be a sedate 140/3 by 30 overs,but with a well set Rohit,you have a shot at ending up at 400/7 kind of a scenario....players like Dhawan need to start fast,if they get bogged down,then that is the end of that.

 

Dhawan usually starts at a run a ball as he has the ability to hit boundaries but seems to have lost that ability...if you look at an out of sync Dhawan it looks like a No X1 is batting but when inflow is amazing to watch.

 

I think people are judging him on T20's,IPL and overseas tests.

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

But isnt this going for long for them to have understood by now.

Yes, but the change in captaincy means an opportunity to reset the tactical approach.  As I said in the match thread earlier - Dhoni had a liking for minimizing the chances of early collapse which would translate to a 260-odd score, and he was willing to give up 340 as long as he got 300+ on the board.  His instinct was to take the game deep and use pressure to get the opposition to make mistakes at crunch time.  The Dhoniconda worked brilliantly for a while, but now the game has evolved, 340 is the new 300.  Case in point, today's game - if Dhoni gets 12 runs instead of 23 in the last over, England romp home in 45 overs.