Countdown to Shikhar Dhawan's Career End. Should be his last year.....

[express bowling]

If we try some new-age high SR + high average batsmen in ODIs,  not all will succeed....but even if one does, we will see the difference.

 

We should start this process after CT is over and try them in the lower-middle order as well as one batter at the top.

 

Dhawan may be good but the new-age batter who will succeed will be better.....because most are much better at improvisation and have grown-up with a mindset of scoring quickly from the word go. because of T20s.

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

India can be a sedate 140/3 by 30 overs,but with a well set Rohit,you have a shot at ending up at 400/7 kind of a scenario....players like Dhawan need to start fast,if they get bogged down,then that is the end of that.

 

Dhawan usually starts at a run a ball as he has the ability to hit boundaries but seems to have lost that ability...if you look at an out of sync Dhawan it looks like a No X1 is batting but when inflow is amazing to watch.

 

I think people are judging him on T20's,IPL and overseas tests.

I Agree somewhat but 400 kuch zyaada ho gaya.

Neways the problem in middle is rohit is really good against spin whereas dhawan has been found out now . So invariably rohit covers it but dhawan gets caught there. 

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I Agree somewhat but 400 kuch zyaada ho gaya.

Neways the problem in middle is rohit is really good against spin whereas dhawan has been found out now . So invariably rohit covers it but dhawan gets caught there. 

But Sharma jee, even if Dhawan gets caught in the middle - if he survives then, its more likely that he has scored close to run-a-ball 70 or so.  With Rohit, if he gets out before he crosses 80, odds are he's been batting well below run-a-ball - and the lower his score, the significantly lower his strike rate.  IIRC one of the games against NZ, he got out at 5(24) on a batting track.  Mr. 264 bats too slow, and puts all his chips on hitting it big later in his innings.  Big momentum sucker he is.   For all his hackishness, you will rarely if at all, see a 50% SR from Dhawan if he crosses 25.  He may not be that great a batsman, but the guy does take risks and bats selflessly.  

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I Agree somewhat but 400 kuch zyaada ho gaya.

Neways the problem in middle is rohit is really good against spin whereas dhawan has been found out now . So invariably rohit covers it but dhawan gets caught there. 

Chalo 350+...and guess what I am not making it up...has happened plenty of time.

 

Also not just spin but Rohit has the ability to hit 145-150K bowling for 6's at will when in the zone...Bounce,short-ball or even Yorkers usually don't faze him...Dhawan on the other hand might struggle against Express pace at times...but not the worst player of fast bowling like Jadhav etc.

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Yes, but the change in captaincy means an opportunity to reset the tactical approach.  As I said in the match thread earlier - Dhoni had a liking for minimizing the chances of early collapse which would translate to a 260-odd score, and he was willing to give up 340 as long as he got 300+ on the board.  His instinct was to take the game deep and use pressure to get the opposition to make mistakes at crunch time.  The Dhoniconda worked brilliantly for a while, but now the game has evolved, 340 is the new 300.  Case in point, today's game - if Dhoni gets 12 runs instead of 23 in the last over, England romp home in 45 overs.  

Yup this is where dhawan has some time to save his place but with rahul , pant, kishen coming up  he doesnt have much time left.

[maniac]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Yup this is where dhawan has some time to save his place but with rahul , pant, kishen coming up  he doesnt have much time left.

Pant and Kishen are competing for the Dhoni slot or even maybe Yuvraj slot......Dhawan is competing with Rahul...Rahul has still not had that consistency in any format. it is boom or bust with him.

[sandeep]

Just now, maniac said:

Pant and Kishen are competing for the Dhoni slot or even maybe Yuvraj slot......Dhawan is competing with Rahul...Rahul has still not had that consistency in any format. it is boom or bust with him.

Rahul has scored 50+ in 67% of his ODI innings

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

Pant and Kishen are competing for the Dhoni slot or even maybe Yuvraj slot......Dhawan is competing with Rahul...Rahul has still not had that consistency in any format. it is boom or bust with him.

  Why cant those 2 open. I wud love someone like Pant using powerplay to full affect. Being a wk doesnt mean u wud only play at dhoni's spot.

They clear the ball so well over infield they are actually really good for powerplays. 

Actually its good to have options- only time will tell who comes off better

[Texy]

All I want to know is who will replace Rahane in ODIs. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

The point m making in regards to impact rather than individual numbers is very well put by an opposition captain Inzamam. 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Texy said:

All I want to know is who will replace Rahane in ODIs. 

Who ever wishes to sit on bench, Binny and raydu have enough exp of giving that services. 

[jalebi_bhai]

It's all in the mindset with Dhawan.  

[putrevus]

What is this all of sudden Rohit is some great achiever and Dhawan is nobody. Rohit has 10 hundreds in 157 matches and Dhawan 9 in 74. Last two Odis which Dhawan played he scored 120 plus and 75 odd if I am not wrong.

 

Not saying Rohit deserves to go but Rohit is not a  better  odi batsman than Dhawan.Rohit had one mega series in Australia in which Dhawan did just fine .                                  

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

What is this all of sudden Rohit is some great achiever and Dhawan is nobody. Rohit has 10 hundreds in 157 matches and Dhawan 9 in 74. Last two Odis which Dhawan played he scored 120 plus and 75 odd if I am not wrong.

 

Not saying Rohit deserves to go but Rohit is not a  better  odi batsman than Dhawan.Rohit had one mega series in Australia in which Dhawan did just fine .                                  

Explained in my main post why ill pick rohit, despite being one of his biggest bashers. 

Point is one has to go or there shud be a change . Either in tactics or the players and what adds to it upcoming players. 

U can put ur reasons. 

M not even saying dhawan has been bad and rohit have been flawless. But is a personal choice with reason mentioned in main post that makes me choose rohit over dhawan. 

[Cricketics]

3 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

Best batsmen in last champions trophy in England. Also batted well in ODI World Cup in Australia. 

 

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

Utter nonsense, Dhawan is still one of the best ODI batsman in the country and he should play as opener in CT. What has he done so bad to get these sort of sentiments.

 

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Don't read too much into this innings - it was a warm-up game and he needed a good tune-up in the middle after being out of the team.  He doesn't bat like this in ODIs - on the contrary, he is way more pro-active and selfless in the early overs, ready to take risks, than Mr. 264.  

 

Still, no denying that with being out of the test team, and Rahul hot on his heels, he will have to perform or perish.  Nothing wrong with healthy competition.  But going forward, I want to see the top 3 ODI bats judged in a blended metric of average and strike rate - and how they carry out the responsibility of setting up the innings momentum.  Not just in terms of 100s and 50s.  

Just of rush of blood for people who are excited to see new talent doing well and fanboyim for a particular player. Not long ago Rihit was suckinng momentumt by batting slow up the order and Shikhar would have to pick the rr alone or get out. To Rohit's credit, he would pick up run rate later when batting with the other top order players and middle order but he used to wait till way late. Dhawan is the prime example of an opener of what he should be looking to do for the team. I would happily keep him around for now unless he has an extremely poor run. 

[putrevus]

56 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Explained in my main post why ill pick rohit, despite being one of his biggest bashers. 

Point is one has to go or there shud be a change . Either in tactics or the players and what adds to it upcoming players. 

U can put ur reasons. 

M not even saying dhawan has been bad and rohit have been flawless. But is a personal choice with reason mentioned in main post that makes me choose rohit over dhawan. 

Your choice is wrong based on their performances on their field, just because Rohit scores two double hundreds , one on smallest ground and another after getting so many dropped chances he does not become a better player, who says Dhawan is worse fielder than Rohit. Dhawan is better catcher and is not a liability on the field.

 

There is no need to change or any need to change any tactics from any of them especially top three.People are nitpicking on few innings here and there.All three score with more than 100 strike rate when they are scoring 100s and when getting 50 plus their SRs are reasonable.

This notion that they need to score every innings with more 100 SR is very unreasonable expectation.There is no one who is better than these three right now so why change.just as an example

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/895813.html

 

All the top three Indians scored with SR of more than 100 and they were matching blow by blow chasing Aussie's huge score Kohli gets out 278 in 39th over and Indian chase peters out to 328 all out where Smith gets out 298 in 45 over and they end up with 348.To expect more from than what these three have done since 2013 is unreasonable and unrealistic. India is not playing Pakistan style cricket where they are scoring 150 for 3 in 30 overs and ending up with 260.

 

Glaring holes are there from no4 to no7 and those are magnified when playing overseas fix them first.If India was 4 down like England today and no one from top three is batting you can book it to be a loss.Winning by scoring 330 plus or chasing 330 plus every match is unreasonable if that is the case India has bigger problems which was true on last two visits to Australia.

Edited January 10, 2017 by putrevus

[gattaca]

3 hours ago, maniac said:

What has that got to do with anything? Yes Rahane played a poor innings but did you watch Dhawan's knocks before that,right from the Srilankan T20 series?

How would you risk to bring in someone new in to semifinal of worldcup if he didn't enough match practice. That doesn't make any sense.

[gattaca]

3 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

But isnt this going for long for them to have understood by now. Yes change in tactic is important but look at the areas opp have figured him out in. 

 

As if he was doing wonder before getting dropped. 

Kanne ko andhe ke liye drop krne wali baat hai 

See above. If rahane didn't had enough practice why bring him in an all important match. This usually doesn't work and especially with openers.

Edited January 10, 2017 by gattaca

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, gattaca said:

How would you risk to bring in someone new in to semifinal of worldcup if he didn't enough match practice. That doesn't make any sense.

So someone has played 10 games and failed 10/10 times,you will play him again for the 11th time just because they had match practice

 

[gattaca]

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

So someone has played 10 games and failed 10/10 times,you will play him again for the 11th time just because they had match practice

 

Dhawan didn't play 10 matches in wc. So don't know how you cooked that. Would rather have someone like kohli or someone down the order use the deliveries than rahane even if  rahane was poor in t20 earlier too. It is not like we were getting anything better.

Edited January 10, 2017 by gattaca