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Dhoni's standing in the pantheon of ODI legends/greats?

Dhoni's standing in the pantheon of ODI legends/greats?  

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  1. 1. Dhoni's standing in the pantheon of ODI legends/greats?

    • All time Great Top 5
    • All time Great Top 10
    • Indian Great,thats it
    • Good batsman,who selfishly played for his stats
    • Average batsman,nothing special


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Lots of heated debate going on in the forum at the moment about Dhoni all about being padding stats and there is nothing great about his batting.Though there are some also who rate his batting quite highly like myself.So,I want to see whats the general view of point of ICF about Dhoni's status as a batsman in ODI cricket?

 

So please vote and also justify if you think he is selfish or no good?

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Let's see:-

 

Below Tendulkar, VIV, Kohli, Warne, Akram, Mcgrath, Ponting, Murali, Gilchrist

 

So, yeah he might scrap through into top 10 unless I am forgetting someone

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Dhoni's USP and advantage is that he is a WK-Bat, bats in the middle order and has (had) great ability to be there till the end and finish games.

 

There is hardly another ODI cricketer ever who had this combination of skill set.

 

If you pick an all time ODI XI, Dhoni is almost assured to be picked as the WK-Bat. The closest rival would be Adam Gilchrist, but he was an opening batsman and there are plenty of other good (better) opening batsmen to choose from.

 

Even purely as a batsman, he is right up there esp. because of the position he bats at. There are very few great middle order ODI batsmen compared to top order batsmen.

 

My All Time ODI XI

 

1) S Tendulkar

2) S Jayasuriya

3) V Richards

4) V Kohli

5) AB DeVilliers

6) *+ MS Dhoni

7) K Dev

8) M Starc

9) S Warne

10) M Muralitharan

11) J Garner

 

#7 is contentious. I wanted a pace bowling all rounder there, neither a pure bowler nor a batting all rounder. Only Andrew Flintoff and Kapil Dev would fit my requirement. Went for Kapil Dev because of his excellent batting SR, low bowling ER, opening swing bowling and fielding.

 

Edited by philcric

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10 minutes ago, kira said:

Let's see:-

 

Below Tendulkar, VIV, Kohli, Warne, Akram, Mcgrath, Ponting, Murali, Gilchrist

 

So, yeah he might scrap through into top 10 unless I am forgetting someone

Forgot about Kapil Dev, so dhoni misses out on top 10, sorry chamchas :giggle:

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1 hour ago, kira said:

Let's see:-

 

Below Tendulkar, VIV, Kohli, Warne, Akram, Mcgrath, Ponting, Murali, Gilchrist

 

So, yeah he might scrap through into top 10 unless I am forgetting someone

you forgot Brett Lee, Michael Bevan, Hussey.

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Dhoni is a certified ATG of the game. A legendary one day batsman by  being a brilliant chaser & finisher,a clutch player,great wicket keeper,good test batsman & a very good captain who has several achievements  to  his credit.All in all an ATG player.

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5 hours ago, kira said:

Let's see:-

 

Below Tendulkar, VIV, Kohli, Warne, Akram, Mcgrath, Ponting, Murali, Gilchrist

 

So, yeah he might scrap through into top 10 unless I am forgetting someone

If you were putting together a World all-time XI, and you could only pick one of Gilchrist or Dhoni, there's no way you pick Gilly.   There are other candidates who can play the hard-hitting opener slot at least as well as Gilly (avg 35, SR 96), but hard to find anyone who can come close to Dhoni's stats at #6.  And in terms of glove-work, Dhoni would have the edge as well.

 

Unless, you want to just hate on old grey-beard.  Then, by all means, throw logic out the window, and just post a few funny pics of him lunging.  

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12 minutes ago, sandeep said:

If you were putting together a World all-time XI, and you could only pick one of Gilchrist or Dhoni, there's no way you pick Gilly.   There are other candidates who can play the hard-hitting opener slot at least as well as Gilly (avg 35, SR 96), but hard to find anyone who can come close to Dhoni's stats at #6.  And in terms of glove-work, Dhoni would have the edge as well.

 

Unless, you want to just hate on old grey-beard.  Then, by all means, throw logic out the window, and just post a few funny pics of him lunging.  

He also gives a captaincy options and many would go for him as a captain as well 

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3 hours ago, sandeep said:

If you were putting together a World all-time XI, and you could only pick one of Gilchrist or Dhoni, there's no way you pick Gilly.   There are other candidates who can play the hard-hitting opener slot at least as well as Gilly (avg 35, SR 96), but hard to find anyone who can come close to Dhoni's stats at #6.  And in terms of glove-work, Dhoni would have the edge as well.

 

Unless, you want to just hate on old grey-beard.  Then, by all means, throw logic out the window, and just post a few funny pics of him lunging.  

I would pick Gilchrist without missing a heartbeat.

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

He also gives a captaincy options and many would go for him as a captain as well 

A world 11 would have no shortage of captaincy candidates. Kapil dev anytime any day. In fact no need of many captains which would spoil things.

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8 minutes ago, Pollack said:

I would pick Gilchrist without missing a heartbeat.

A world 11 would have no shortage of captaincy candidates. Kapil dev anytime any day. In fact no need of many captains which would spoil things.

And some delusional toygers would pick Mushfiqure Rahim ahead of both.  Doesn't mean jack.  Gilly was awesome, but also got to bat without worrying about consequences in an all-star batting unit backed up by top bowling.   And he could only really fit the bill as an ODI opener - lots of options for those 2 slots when picking an all-time World XI.   For #6, there's Dhoni and Bevan, and that's about it.  And you are either stupid or ignorant if you think Bevan > Dhoni in ODIs.   

 

Agree on the Captaincy - lot of candidates.  Kapil never came across as one who had a lot of tactical nous though.   

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13 minutes ago, Pollack said:

I would pick Gilchrist without missing a heartbeat.

A world 11 would have no shortage of captaincy candidates. Kapil dev anytime any day. In fact no need of many captains which would spoil things.

Thats y i said many will go for dhoni, but their wud be few with other choices . Thats to each its own 

Havent seen kapil dev era cricket so wnt comment on that 

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3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

And some delusional toygers would pick Mushfiqure Rahim ahead of both.  Doesn't mean jack.  Gilly was awesome, but also got to bat without worrying about consequences in an all-star batting unit backed up by top bowling.   And he could only really fit the bill as an ODI opener - lots of options for those 2 slots when picking an all-time World XI.   For #6, there's Dhoni and Bevan, and that's about it.  And you are either stupid or ignorant if you think Bevan > Dhoni in ODIs.   

 

Agree on the Captaincy - lot of candidates.  Kapil never came across as one who had a lot of tactical nous though.   

But I am no delusional toyger. :noidea:

Did not even mention Bevan in my post. From where does  Bevan> dhoni comparison arise. 

You are missing the point. A world eleven consists of best batsmen and bowler. A specialised finisher has jacksh!t utility in such a team. If such a top order fails, dhoni can do nothing at 5 or 6. 

 

BTW what were you smoking when you said Dhoni has better glove work than Gilchrist? :laugh:  Batting is debatable but seriously dhoni better keeper? :p:

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Pollack said:

 

BTW what were you smoking when you said Dhoni has better glove work than Gilchrist? :laugh:  Batting is debatable but seriously dhoni better keeper? :p:

 

 

I love to bait Dhoni fans here, but what makes you say Dhoni isn't a better gloveman than Gilchrist? Dhoni urinates all over the aussie when it comes to keeping up the stumps. And while Gilchrist is in stiff competition against Jayasuriya, Dhoni comfortably trumps bevan.

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1 hour ago, Pollack said:

But I am no delusional toyger. :noidea:

Did not even mention Bevan in my post. From where does  Bevan> dhoni comparison arise. 

You are missing the point. A world eleven consists of best batsmen and bowler. A specialised finisher has jacksh!t utility in such a team. If such a top order fails, dhoni can do nothing at 5 or 6. 

 

BTW what were you smoking when you said Dhoni has better glove work than Gilchrist? :laugh:  Batting is debatable but seriously dhoni better keeper? :p:

 

 

Yes Dhoni comfortably better than Gilly behind the stumps.  Daylights better.   

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2 hours ago, sandeep said:

And some delusional toygers would pick Mushfiqure Rahim ahead of both.  Doesn't mean jack.  Gilly was awesome, but also got to bat without worrying about consequences in an all-star batting unit backed up by top bowling.   And he could only really fit the bill as an ODI opener - lots of options for those 2 slots when picking an all-time World XI.   For #6, there's Dhoni and Bevan, and that's about it.  And you are either stupid or ignorant if you think Bevan > Dhoni in ODIs.   

 

Agree on the Captaincy - lot of candidates.  Kapil never came across as one who had a lot of tactical nous though.   

How was Indian batting any less potent than Australian line ups . If Gilly was table setter for all star batting line up. Dhoni was a finisher for all star batting line up.

 

I would take Gilly over Dhoni because he would be great in test matches too.

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7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

How was Indian batting any less potent than Australian line ups . If Gilly was table setter for all star batting line up. Dhoni was a finisher for all star batting line up.

 

I would take Gilly over Dhoni because he would be great in test matches too.

 

Discussion here is about only ODIs.

 

In tests, Gilly is obviously far ahead of Dhoni.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, philcric said:

 

Discussion here is about only ODIs.

 

In tests, Gilly is obviously far ahead of Dhoni.

 

 

It would be a tie in ODIs as you cannot go wrong with either but Gilly wins the tiebreaker because he was ATG in tests too. T20s it is no contest also.

 

Gilly is far better batsman overall where as Dhoni is street smart who suited more to odis alone.

Edited by putrevus

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46 minutes ago, putrevus said:

How was Indian batting any less potent than Australian line ups . If Gilly was table setter for all star batting line up. Dhoni was a finisher for all star batting line up.

 

I would take Gilly over Dhoni because he would be great in test matches too.

Agree that Gilly is ahead of Dhoni in test cricket - that's a given.  But in ODIs, both were great, and Dhoni would be picked ahead of gilly if you had to pick only one of them.  Ask die-hard Aussie fans why Gilly was nicknamed "Clang".  Hint - its because his hard hands used drop a bunch of chances.  And let's not even talk about keeping against spin (stumpings).   Dhoni can never be considered one of the best glovemen overall, but head-to-head, he surpasses Gilly quite easily in terms of keeping wickets.  

 

To give you an extreme example - Gilly only fits into an ODI team as an opener who bats like he has nothing to lose.   A high functioning Kaluwitharana.  An in-prime Dhoni can bat anywhere from #3 to #7, and would be a better choice for an all-time ODI ATG XI.

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15 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Agree that Gilly is ahead of Dhoni in test cricket - that's a given.  But in ODIs, both were great, and Dhoni would be picked ahead of gilly if you had to pick only one of them.  Ask die-hard Aussie fans why Gilly was nicknamed "Clang".  Hint - its because his hard hands used drop a bunch of chances.  And let's not even talk about keeping against spin (stumpings).   Dhoni can never be considered one of the best glovemen overall, but head-to-head, he surpasses Gilly quite easily in terms of keeping wickets.  

 

To give you an extreme example - Gilly only fits into an ODI team as an opener who bats like he has nothing to lose.   A high functioning Kaluwitharana.  An in-prime Dhoni can bat anywhere from #3 to #7, and would be a better choice for an all-time ODI ATG XI.

You cannot have player just for odis,Gilly as all round package is ahead due to tests and t20s. Even in odis Dhoni is not ahead it is at best tie. Who said Gilly could bat only at top, he was a proper batsman who could bat anywhere.With his SR and average he could bat anywhere and still be very effective.

You don't average 47 in tests and be just a slasher.It is an insult to greatest WK batsman to be compared to Kalu who was at best one or two seasons wonder.

Edited by putrevus

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7 hours ago, putrevus said:

It would be a tie in ODIs as you cannot go wrong with either but Gilly wins the tiebreaker because he was ATG in tests too. T20s it is no contest also.

 

Gilly is far better batsman overall where as Dhoni is street smart who suited more to odis alone.

Problem is that while we have several options for opener, for 5-6, we have Bevan, dhoni and hussey. If you pick Gilchrist and don't want to pick Dhoni, you will have to pick one of Bevan and hussey and both are inferior to Dhoni. Anyway, it's not exclusive and both can be picked in XI.

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2 hours ago, Khota said:

He was the best Indian Wkt keeper /batsman combination. Currently there are three better than him.

Quite generous of you to state that but who are the three better than him at the moment in odis

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Let alone Dhoni vs Gilly, no way Gilchrist being picked ahead Jayasurya in ODIs .

 

Gilly for all him attacking batting is nowhere near Jayasurya in destructive batting. He could never destroy a bowling attack like Jayasurya could . Gilly is more in the Sehwag mode whereas Jayasuriya is a level above them in destruction prowess .Would walk into the ODI world XI as opener with Sachin. He revolutionized how odi cricket is played like no other .

 

 

And thats without mentioning the bowling of Jayasurya. We could genuinely make a case for Jayasurya to be the best left arm off spinner of all time in ODIs as well.

 

Heck even if there is no MSD , one can pick Sangakkara or AD De Villiers instead of Gilly to play in middle order and and open with Jayasuriya and justify it . Both are far more consistent batsmen than Gilchrist and De Villiers can be just as destructive too .

 

 

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19 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Let alone Dhoni vs Gilly, no way Gilchrist being picked ahead Jayasurya in ODIs .

 

Gilly for all him attacking batting is nowhere near Jayasurya in destructive batting. He could never destroy a bowling attack like Jayasurya could . Gilly is more in the Sehwag mode whereas Jayasuriya is a level above them in destruction prowess .Would walk into the ODI world XI as opener with Sachin. He revolutionized how odi cricket is played like no other .

 

 

And thats without mentioning the bowling of Jayasurya. We could genuinely make a case for Jayasurya to be the best left arm off spinner of all time in ODIs as well.

 

Heck even if there is no MSD , one can pick Sangakkara or AD De Villiers instead of Gilly to play in middle order and and open with Jayasuriya and justify it . Both are far more consistent batsmen than Gilchrist and De Villiers can be just as destructive too .

 

 

Gilchrist has a higher SR, better average. You must be kidding saying Gilchrist has not destroyed attacks. 

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Gilchrist has a higher SR, better average. You must be kidding saying Gilchrist has not destroyed attacks. 

Nowhere near what Jayasuriya was.

 

He has better stats than Jayasuriya because , Jayasuriya simply stated too long damaging his stats.

 

It's like saying Sangakkara has better stats than Lara ,so must be better batsman too.

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Nowhere near what Jayasuriya was.

 

He has better stats than Jayasuriya because , Jayasuriya simply stated too long damaging his stats.

 

It's like saying Sangakkara has better stats than Lara ,so must be better batsman too.

 

 

 

if Jaysuriya was such a destroyer, he would have had a higher SR but he does not. Regarding average, his average was never great because he was not that consistent. He was an Indian bowling basher. he averages 23 against Aus in Aus, 20 against SA in SA.

Edited by rkt.india

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34 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

if Jaysuriya was such a destroyer, he would have had a higher SR but he does not. Regarding average, his average was never great because he was not that consistent. He was an Indian bowling basher. he averages 23 against Aus in Aus, 20 against SA in SA.

Jayasurya played from 89 onwards hello...when 60-70 strike rate was considered par. 

infact, if you see his stats, its clear that Jayasurya had a strike rate of 73 till 1995. 

From 1995 onwards, his strike rate never dipped below 80, which is excellent for the 90s onwards.  his strike rate from 1995-2011 is 93.32. 

Amazing. 

Gillchrist had the cushiest ODI job ever- no care, just bash, every innings. He was not required to build (Jayasurya was, since SL batting was far more brittle and revolved around him & DeSilva, then him and Jaya/Sanga), he had the best bowling lineup and the best batting lineup to come after him. 

Gilchrist can be replaced by Dhoni in an alltime LOI side. Partnearing Sachin- the options are pretty much Jayasurya or Sehwag and Jaya's much,much better fielding and bowling puts him ahead of Veeru in ODIs in my book. 

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6 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Jayasurya played from 89 onwards hello...when 60-70 strike rate was considered par. 

infact, if you see his stats, its clear that Jayasurya had a strike rate of 73 till 1995. 

From 1995 onwards, his strike rate never dipped below 80, which is excellent for the 90s onwards.  his strike rate from 1995-2011 is 93.32. 

Amazing. 

Gillchrist had the cushiest ODI job ever- no care, just bash, every innings. He was not required to build (Jayasurya was, since SL batting was far more brittle and revolved around him & DeSilva, then him and Jaya/Sanga), he had the best bowling lineup and the best batting lineup to come after him. 

Gilchrist can be replaced by Dhoni in an alltime LOI side. Partnearing Sachin- the options are pretty much Jayasurya or Sehwag and Jaya's much,much better fielding and bowling puts him ahead of Veeru in ODIs in my book. 

Gilchrist was never required to build and still has better average than Jaisuriya. Who told you Jaisuriya was required to build. Since 1996, he had only one job that is to open and bash bowlers. There was no building or consolidating **** with Jaisuriya. I will take Sehwag over Jaisuriya as batsman, has both better average and SR. Both were highly inconsistent. Jaisuriya was bit India basher on SC pitches. has done zilch in Aus and SA.

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