Can we consider Ishant Sharma is out of picture now?

[Temujin Khaghan]

I feel Ishant can contribute more than bhuvi in overseas conditions where you need to hit the deck hard.

[Temujin Khaghan]

my starting lineup for first test in south africa

 

Vijay

Rahul - 1

Pujara

Kohli

Rahane

Ashwin - 2

Pandya - 3

Saha

Shami

Ishant - 4

Umesh

 

we should easily do a 2-1 and thereby sealing our first ever series win in saffer land.

1 - I wouldn't mind so much if Kohli wants to go with Dhawan instead of rahul

2 - Ashwin is crucial don't want either Kuldeep or Jadeja fighting for the sole spinner slot. only if Ashwin does horribly bad in all three saffer tests and returns with series stats with an average of 40+ and a horrible strike rate, should we lower him in the hierarchy of the sole spinner slot in overseas tests. 

3 - no compromise he is playing as much test cricket as possible at this young age. 

4 - prefer Ishant more than bhuvi in South Africa and prefer bhuvi more than anyone else in England series in summer 2018

Edited October 30, 2017 by Temujin Khaghan

[Oldhere]

1 hour ago, Temujin Khaghan said:

my starting lineup for first test in south africa

 

Vijay

Rahul - 1

Pujara

Kohli

Rahane

Ashwin - 2

Pandya - 3

Saha

Shami

Ishant - 4

Umesh

 

we should easily do a 2-1 and thereby sealing our first ever series win in saffer land.

1 - I wouldn't mind so much if Kohli wants to go with Dhawan instead of rahul

2 - Ashwin is crucial don't want either Kuldeep or Jadeja fighting for the sole spinner slot. only if Ashwin does horribly bad in all three saffer tests and returns with series stats with an average of 40+ and a horrible strike rate, should we lower him in the hierarchy of the sole spinner slot in overseas tests. 

3 - no compromise he is playing as much test cricket as possible at this young age. 

4 - prefer Ishant more than bhuvi in South Africa and prefer bhuvi more than anyone else in England series in summer 2018

 

Agree with all other points except 1.

 

Rahul has been one of our shining stars in Test cricket and is way better than Dhawan.

 

 

[RAZPOR]

9 hours ago, Lala2790 said:

Or they could play us in the next Champions League Final and provide us some competition

abey comeback karne se pehle padh to liya kar.... champions trophy hota hai.

aur we have won it twice  before you...so go brag somewhere else....

[putrevus]

I would take Bumrah in the squad and let him play warm up matches and see how he does then make a call.

[rkt.india]

22 hours ago, MechEng said:

Ishant Sharma like Irfan Pathan is another case who did no understand his limitations. After a great Australian tour, he was expected to blow away batting line ups like Andy Roberts instead of allowing him to gradually evolve at his own pace, as a result he ended up complicating his bowling.

 

This is a classic case of how social pressure can mess things, after 2009 T20 World Cup when Ishant lost his pace, media went full throttle on his decline in pace, this brought anxiety in him and you could see it in his bowling action he did not look relaxed at all, his head position was not still at the time of releasing the ball unlike it was perfect in Australia 2008 tour. He has gained back good pace now but has lost the ability to get the ball to cut back into right handers.

 

I can say the same for Irfan Pathan, he was bowling in 115-120 kph range in 2006, but he could bowl huge inswingers to right hand batsmen even in Asian conditions. He made changes in his natural action for adding an outswinger to right hand batsman in his artillery and trying to bowl quick, as a result he did gain pace (135+ kph) but totally lost the ability to swing the ball.

why did Ishant lose pace in 2009 T20 WC? I had noticed that immediately.  The reason for losing pace was change in action. He was trying to imitate Zaheer and lost pace not because what you are saying.  He thought he could bowl outswing like Zak and lost his strength.

 

Regarding Irfan, he never gained pace back and never he lost his inswing, so, saying he gained pace and lost his swing is wrong.  He still swings the ball in domestic cricket but swing is condition dependent. He was already in downfall in 2006 and had already changed his action. That speed of 115-120 was the consequence of that change in his action due to an injury.  Irfan never lost swing. what he lost was his action and pace in 2006 after an injury. 

 

Same with Ishant that loss of pace was the consequence of change in action. He was trying to bowl from close to the stumps in 2009 T20 WC and that change led to the loss of pace. 2009 T20 WC was start of his downfall in pace and then he gained that pace back in 2011 IPL where he clocked 150KPH again as he went back to his old approach and then WI tour when he picked 21 wickets in that series.  

 

Irfan could never get his old action back.  he tried a lot, lot of changes in his action but was never the same bowler again. 

[Lala2790]

8 hours ago, RAZPOR said:

abey comeback karne se pehle padh to liya kar.... champions trophy hota hai.

aur we have won it twice  before you...so go brag somewhere else....

Lelelel at you claiming 2002.  Sri Lanka were miles ahead, if it wasn't for the BCCI throwing (anoter) tamtrum you clearly would not have been gifted the title

[Laaloo]

4 hours ago, Lala2790 said:

Lelelel at you claiming 2002.  Sri Lanka were miles ahead, if it wasn't for the BCCI throwing (anoter) tamtrum you clearly would not have been gifted the title

lala mian pehle english seekh ke ha phir baat karte hai

[Lala2790]

12 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

lala mian pehle english seekh ke ha phir baat karte hai

Another Laaloo melt off the bowling of Lala2790, well bowled today Lala2790

 

Singalolong c & b Lala2790    0

Laaloo Hit Wkt b Lala2790     0

Express Bowling b Lala2790   0

Maniac lbw Lala2790             0

[RAZPOR]

10 hours ago, Lala2790 said:

Lelelel at you claiming 2002.  Sri Lanka were miles ahead, if it wasn't for the BCCI throwing (anoter) tamtrum you clearly would not have been gifted the title

Chal 2002 wala bhi lele tu ...khush ????

Even then we have won every single world trophy there is before you.

 

Ab aur ro le thoda agli post mein......ki how bcci bought ecb and wicb to win 83 wc.

Pc ye conspiracies ke chakkar me hi reh gaye tum log.....

 

[gakgupta]

On 10/30/2017 at 11:36 AM, Temujin Khaghan said:

use Ishant as the third seamer after shami and Umesh in South Africa and australia test series

go back to bhuvi as the third seamer in nz and England test series

if Ishant doesn't do anything useful next year in overseas test series then drop Ishant after 2019 WC and begin to start using Bumrah as the third seamer in overseas test series

but do not use bumrah in test cricket until 2019WC because he is very crucial if we want to win it and lets not overload him until then. 

 

but then again, its just my view...

Young hyderabadi lad can outshine ishant and bhuvi (in test matches) as he has seam, swing and pace. Moreover, he seems to hit the deck hard.....

So, he is my third option now along with Shami and umesh...

BTW, what is his name??

[sarcastic]

3 hours ago, gakgupta said:

Young hyderabadi lad can outshine ishant and bhuvi (in test matches) as he has seam, swing and pace. Moreover, he seems to hit the deck hard.....

So, he is my third option now along with Shami and umesh...

BTW, what is his name??

Siraj!!! 

 

But he will get his chances only when we are done with Ishant! Ishu has been doing well in Ranjis this time and he deserves another run in test cricket. Granted if he fails in the next season or two, that is curtains for his international career. 

[Laaloo]

17 hours ago, sarcastic said:

Siraj!!! 

 

But he will get his chances only when we are done with Ishant! Ishu has been doing well in Ranjis this time and he deserves another run in test cricket. Granted if he fails in the next season or two, that is curtains for his international career. 

No he doesn't. Enough of this crap. How many test matches he will play? 150? Time to open the door and push him off the 24th floor.

[Pollack]

18 hours ago, sarcastic said:

Siraj!!! 

 

But he will get his chances only when we are done with Ishant! Ishu has been doing well in Ranjis this time and he deserves another run in test cricket. Granted if he fails in the next season or two, that is curtains for his international career. 

We have been already doing that for many years now. Unfortunately it's always let's give one more chance to legendary mediocre bowler Ishant 24th floor wale Sharma.

[MechEng]

On 30/10/2017 at 10:35 AM, rkt.india said:

why did Ishant lose pace in 2009 T20 WC? I had noticed that immediately.  The reason for losing pace was change in action. He was trying to imitate Zaheer and lost pace not because what you are saying.  He thought he could bowl outswing like Zak and lost his strength.

 

Regarding Irfan, he never gained pace back and never he lost his inswing, so, saying he gained pace and lost his swing is wrong.  He still swings the ball in domestic cricket but swing is condition dependent. He was already in downfall in 2006 and had already changed his action. That speed of 115-120 was the consequence of that change in his action due to an injury.  Irfan never lost swing. what he lost was his action and pace in 2006 after an injury. 

 

Same with Ishant that loss of pace was the consequence of change in action. He was trying to bowl from close to the stumps in 2009 T20 WC and that change led to the loss of pace. 2009 T20 WC was start of his downfall in pace and then he gained that pace back in 2011 IPL where he clocked 150KPH again as he went back to his old approach and then WI tour when he picked 21 wickets in that series.  

 

Irfan could never get his old action back.  he tried a lot, lot of changes in his action but was never the same bowler again. 

As far as I remember Ishant tried to imitate Zak in our tour 2010 to South Africa, before that he tried many things to get back bowling at 90 mph and failed, so he thought of doing the unthinkable at such a risky stage - changing his bowling style by copying Zak.  But then even after gaining back pace in 2011 he was not able to get the ball to nip back in sharply like Asif which was his bigger strength than his pace. I remember an interview Manju had with Courtney Walsh in 2012 where Walsh pointed out 2 flaws in Ishant's bowling - wrist position and stillness of head while delivering the ball. And Walsh was right, just watch the video below at 0:58 and see how still Ishant's head is while delivering the ball:

 

 

[LORD_analyst]

On 10/30/2017 at 8:24 PM, putrevus said:

I would take Bumrah in the squad and let him play warm up matches and see how he does then make a call.

you and express bowling have good knowledge and understanding of cricket.....imo

[mancalledsting]

7 hours ago, MechEng said:

As far as I remember Ishant tried to imitate Zak in our tour 2010 to South Africa, before that he tried many things to get back bowling at 90 mph and failed, so he thought of doing the unthinkable at such a risky stage - changing his bowling style by copying Zak.  But then even after gaining back pace in 2011 he was not able to get the ball to nip back in sharply like Asif which was his bigger strength than his pace. I remember an interview Manju had with Courtney Walsh in 2012 where Walsh pointed out 2 flaws in Ishant's bowling - wrist position and stillness of head while delivering the ball. And Walsh was right, just watch the video below at 0:58 and see how still Ishant's head is while delivering the ball:

 

 

Ishant was bowling so beautifully here- we would kill to have a bowler like this currently. BCCI needs to be held accountable for messing up the careers of irfan and Ishant. Whenever an exciting talent comes into Indian cricket, bhabus get excited and try to milk the camel by making bowlers play every t20, ODI and test match with no rest.

[King Tendulkar]

Well good news for ishant is that precedent been set . Ishant when ever time comes will get teary fare well match 

[Pollack]

 

[CG]

On 11/1/2017 at 8:44 PM, MechEng said:

As far as I remember Ishant tried to imitate Zak in our tour 2010 to South Africa, before that he tried many things to get back bowling at 90 mph and failed, so he thought of doing the unthinkable at such a risky stage - changing his bowling style by copying Zak.  But then even after gaining back pace in 2011 he was not able to get the ball to nip back in sharply like Asif which was his bigger strength than his pace. I remember an interview Manju had with Courtney Walsh in 2012 where Walsh pointed out 2 flaws in Ishant's bowling - wrist position and stillness of head while delivering the ball. And Walsh was right, just watch the video below at 0:58 and see how still Ishant's head is while delivering the ball:

 

 

Ishant wrist position was corrected by venkatesh prasad during his australian tour of 2008 .Ishant Himself has to be blamed for his downfall and the people who coached him to come close to stumps.His strength like bumrah was indipper which made the ball which straightened deadly he changed his action and never has been able to get the same movement.