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Not a fan of war movies at all. I fully support soldiers who fight to protect us but making such movies I do not support. Very bhadkau trailer with some cringeworthy 'akhrot' dialogues, movies like these will only make public more jingoistic rather than finding a real solution to India-Pakistan problem. War is sometimes needed to bring justice, but don't glorify it.

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50 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Not a fan of war movies at all. I fully support soldiers who fight to protect us but making such movies I do not support. Very bhadkau trailer with some cringeworthy 'akhrot' dialogues, movies like these will only make public more jingoistic rather than finding a real solution to India-Pakistan problem. War is sometimes needed to bring justice, but don't glorify it.

You expect us to find a solution to India -Pakistan problem when our dear neighbor sleeps with terrorists every day ?   

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5 minutes ago, gattaca said:

You expect us to find a solution to India -Pakistan problem when our dear neighbor sleeps with terrorists every day ?   

Definitely not by developing fake toughness by watching movies.

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6 hours ago, MechEng said:

Not a fan of war movies at all. I fully support soldiers who fight to protect us but making such movies I do not support. Very bhadkau trailer with some cringeworthy 'akhrot' dialogues, movies like these will only make public more jingoistic rather than finding a real solution to India-Pakistan problem. War is sometimes needed to bring justice, but don't glorify it.

Patriotism is needed in still developing countries like India. Some kids in India these days think its fashionable to be not patriotic because they ape mentality of people who live in developed countries. They have no clue about reality.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, MechEng said:

Not a fan of war movies at all. I fully support soldiers who fight to protect us but making such movies I do not support. Very bhadkau trailer with some cringeworthy 'akhrot' dialogues, movies like these will only make public more jingoistic rather than finding a real solution to India-Pakistan problem. War is sometimes needed to bring justice, but don't glorify it.

What is a realistic solution for the ind-pak problem?

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13 minutes ago, NareshK said:

Patriotism is needed in still developing countries like India. Some kids in India these days think its fashionable to be not patriotic because they ape mentality of people who live in developed countries. They have no clue about reality.

 

 

 

Patriotism is good, jingoism is not. Respecting your country and army does not mean believing in stuff like "unhe Kashmir chahiye aur humko unka sar" that's savagery. Otherwise there is no difference between us and a yankee redneck.

 

5 minutes ago, cricketrulez said:

What is a realistic solution for the ind-pak problem?

As I said before it is definitely not by watching such filth. There is a huge difference between cursing Pakistan from the comfort of movie theatres and actually going in the battlefield with a calm head which requires true courage.

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33 minutes ago, MechEng said:

As I said before it is definitely not by watching such filth. There is a huge difference between cursing Pakistan from the comfort of movie theatres and actually going in the battlefield with a calm head which requires true courage.

so you don't know a realistic solution for ind-pak situation is?

 

Try not to beat around the bush.

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5 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

realistic solution is giving them siachen like our former PM MMS  wanted to give them. 

Why? sounds more like bending over rather than realistic solution. you are not a WKK are you?

 

and what makes you convinced that all our problems will end at that point?

 

 

Edited by cricketrulez

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21 hours ago, NareshK said:

Patriotism is needed in still developing countries like India. Some kids in India these days think its fashionable to be not patriotic because they ape mentality of people who live in developed countries. They have no clue about reality.

 

 

 

Patriotism is needed. But unfortunately, 99% of Indians who 'think' they are patriots, are actually 'nationalists'. Which is not needed. 

A patriot does whatever it takes to improve and further the interests of their nation and people. A nationalist is the one that picks arbitrary idiologies as representative of their nation and tries to beat it into people for some sort of validation. This is why i find India lacks patriots, even amongst its so-called proud Indians. They really aught to learn what patriotism is, from the Japanese. 

 

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20 hours ago, cricketrulez said:

so you don't know a realistic solution for ind-pak situation is?

 

Try not to beat around the bush.

Whats the realistic solution to a psychopathic killer stalking your neighborhood ? Two options : confrontation or access denial. 

 

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56 minutes ago, MechEng said:

That line "Yeh naya hindustan hai, ghus ke marega" is so disturbing, not empowering at all. We'll become like yanks hating on Russia of the 80's.

Great. propose solutions. what do you think should happen. Unless it "realistic solution" was a brainless throw away line.

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1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

Whats the realistic solution to a psychopathic killer stalking your neighborhood ? Two options : confrontation or access denial. 

 

yup, let him know he will be dog meat if he look at you the wrong way.

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2 minutes ago, cricketrulez said:

yup, let him know he will be dog meat if he look at you the wrong way.

Sure. 
Or you build Fort Knox and the moment he steps foot inside the perimeter a thousand guns put their beads on him. 

What you DON'T do is tell the psychopath killer he is a bad dude, have him over for tea but he can't stay for dinner coz he is a bad dude and occasionally steal his newspapers & milk deliveries to 'teach him a lesson for being a poopy person'. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Sure. 
Or you build Fort Knox and the moment he steps foot inside the perimeter a thousand guns put their beads on him. 

What you DON'T do is tell the psychopath killer he is a bad dude, have him over for tea but he can't stay for dinner coz he is a bad dude and occasionally steal his newspapers & milk deliveries to 'teach him a lesson for being a poopy person'. 

 

Not much I can disagree with here. India needs to shed itself of the Gandhi-nehru virus and make a clear cut decision. 

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21 hours ago, cricketrulez said:

Not much I can disagree with here. India needs to shed itself of the Gandhi-nehru virus and make a clear cut decision. 

That is why it is important to have a national narrative to drive policies that affect the nation.  Any talk of a narrative, is shot down by liberals with all kinds of western constructs like post-modernism, post-colonialism, sub-altern studies, saying it is bad to be nationalistic. Every great nation has a narrative that builds their societies. American Exceptionalism, Chinese heritage with civilization philosophy (they are moving from Maoism to Confucianism, even Japanese follow their identity with fervor about how their Buddhist/Shinto civilization makes them what they are. Here, these communists and liberals will call such communal, nationalistic and majoritarian! It's all Brahminical Patriarchy for them, even for Jack the Twitter idiot.

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1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

That is why it is important to have a national narrative to drive policies that affect the nation.  Any talk of a narrative, is shot down by liberals with all kinds of western constructs like post-modernism, post-colonialism, sub-altern studies, saying it is bad to be nationalistic.

We also shoot it down because unlike a national narrative that is accurate, hinduvta wants to make a FALSE narrative to suit its purposes. 

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

Every great nation has a narrative that builds their societies. American Exceptionalism, Chinese heritage with civilization philosophy (they are moving from Maoism to Confucianism, even Japanese follow their identity with fervor about how their Buddhist/Shinto civilization makes them what they are. Here, these communists and liberals will call such communal, nationalistic and majoritarian! It's all Brahminical Patriarchy for them, even for Jack the Twitter idiot.

Yeah last i checked, Japan does not invent nonsense history nor does it consider western scholarly input to be bunk, all the while giving platform to psuedo-intellectuals with zero proper qualifications to push their agenda. 

Don't compare Indian nationalists with Japanese patriots - Indian nationalists are like children- petulant, lost and often wrong.

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7 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

We also shoot it down because unlike a national narrative that is accurate, hinduvta wants to make a FALSE narrative to suit its purposes. 

Yeah last i checked, Japan does not invent nonsense history nor does it consider western scholarly input to be bunk, all the while giving platform to psuedo-intellectuals with zero proper qualifications to push their agenda. 

Don't compare Indian nationalists with Japanese patriots - Indian nationalists are like children- petulant, lost and often wrong.

Hope you are not throwing yourself with the kongressi pseudo liberals where idiocy of one fairy tale is sacred while the other is bunk.

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2 hours ago, cricketrulez said:

Hope you are not throwing yourself with the kongressi pseudo liberals where idiocy of one fairy tale is sacred while the other is bunk.

No. 

I am in 'none of the above camp'. Would prefer BJP for their economic policies but their social policies and mentalities are ghastly. Just as ghastly as congress's.  

 

I am a pucca atheist - all fairytales are bunk. I am also a realist- which means i consider certain fairytales ( desert related for eg) far more harmful than others. 

 

I simply have no time for hinduvta garbage, that is rooted in psuedo-intellectualism and spreading nonsensical ideas about our history, which is one of the most complex, syncretic and unique in the world. In a nutshell, congressis simply do not care about the complexities of Indian history and the BJP types simply lack the brainpower to comprehend it. 

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On 12/10/2018 at 2:08 AM, MechEng said:

That line "Yeh naya hindustan hai, ghus ke marega" is so disturbing, not empowering at all. We'll become like yanks hating on Russia of the 80's.

so what is wrong with that? Check the context her. They killed many soldiers in Uri and Arm is planning a retreat.  What is wrong in that? You would want them to not do anything and wait for another attack and lose more soldiers?

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That is why it is important to have a national narrative to drive policies that affect the nation.  Any talk of a narrative, is shot down by liberals with all kinds of western constructs like post-modernism, post-colonialism, sub-altern studies, saying it is bad to be nationalistic. Every great nation has a narrative that builds their societies. American Exceptionalism, Chinese heritage with civilization philosophy (they are moving from Maoism to Confucianism, even Japanese follow their identity with fervor about how their Buddhist/Shinto civilization makes them what they are. Here, these communists and liberals will call such communal, nationalistic and majoritarian! It's all Brahminical Patriarchy for them, even for Jack the Twitter idiot.
Japan is natioanlist,make no mistakd.Anf one reason they are that way is because theu have banned immigration.country us homogenous and thinks in one direction.
Unlike india.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

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6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

so what is wrong with that? Check the context her. They killed many soldiers in Uri and Arm is planning a retreat.  What is wrong in that? You would want them to not do anything and wait for another attack and lose more soldiers?

That line is not empowering, it will make public more cranky than being level headed. A movie will not change how army will respond to Pakistan's aggression in future but it will definitely have some impact on people's psyche.

There is a difference between being aggressive and being assertive. 

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Just now, MechEng said:

That line is not empowering, it will make public more cranky than being level headed. A movie will not change how army will respond to Pakistan's aggression in future but it will definitely have some impact on people's psyche.

There is a difference between being aggressive and being assertive. 

Yep. If Indian nationalists want to understand this concept, they should study Israel. They don't make movies and tv shows about jihadi Palestinians and great IDF. They make movies about love stories, heists, adventures etc - the normal masala stuff. But their defense forces are the king-kong of 'muh-tor jawaab' ideology.

 

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5 hours ago, MechEng said:

That line is not empowering, it will make public more cranky than being level headed. A movie will not change how army will respond to Pakistan's aggression in future but it will definitely have some impact on people's psyche.

There is a difference between being aggressive and being assertive. 

Still no realistic solution huh?

Edited by cricketrulez

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13 hours ago, MechEng said:

That line is not empowering, it will make public more cranky than being level headed. A movie will not change how army will respond to Pakistan's aggression in future but it will definitely have some impact on people's psyche.

There is a difference between being aggressive and being assertive. 

it does not matter what Indian public thinks about Pakistan because Indian public is not attacking them or killing people in Pakistan.  Indian public is busy earning daily meals and dealing with other issues irrespective of what dialogue they have in the film.

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On 12/9/2018 at 4:30 AM, NareshK said:

Patriotism is needed in still developing countries like India. Some kids in India these days think its fashionable to be not patriotic because they ape mentality of people who live in developed countries. They have no clue about reality.

 

 

 

Debatable whether to involve youths in some events.  Personally i feel youths must be kept away from some events. It can cause trauma and have psychological impact.  I think they are patriotic though but upto a certain extent, which is understandable.  Things were very different in in past century.

Edited by Straight Drive

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On 12/11/2018 at 11:42 AM, Muloghonto said:

Yep. If Indian nationalists want to understand this concept, they should study Israel. They don't make movies and tv shows about jihadi Palestinians and great IDF. They make movies about love stories, heists, adventures etc - the normal masala stuff. But their defense forces are the king-kong of 'muh-tor jawaab' ideology.

 

True. Let war belong to the place it deserves - battlefield, not movie theatres.

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On 12/12/2018 at 12:50 AM, rkt.india said:

it does not matter what Indian public thinks about Pakistan because Indian public is not attacking them or killing people in Pakistan.  Indian public is busy earning daily meals and dealing with other issues irrespective of what dialogue they have in the film.

Then what is the purpose of movies? 

 

Look, in the 19th century the middle east was peaceful place, heck even in 1960s there was the hippie trail where white people drove their minivans from London to Banaras via Eastern Europe, Turkey, Iraq and Pakistan. Then how did things go bad? During Cold War era, Americans brainwashed and manufactured Jihadis to keep Soviet Union in check. This is where modern terrorism began.

 

I'm not saying Indians will become terrorists after watching bhadkau movies, but still the impact is not positive.  

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23 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Then what is the purpose of movies? 

 

Look, in the 19th century the middle east was peaceful place, heck even in 1960s there was the hippie trail where white people drove their minivans from London to Banaras via Eastern Europe, Turkey, Iraq and Pakistan. Then how did things go bad? During Cold War era, Americans brainwashed and manufactured Jihadis to keep Soviet Union in check. This is where modern terrorism began.

 

I'm not saying Indians will become terrorists after watching bhadkau movies, but still the impact is not positive.  

In 60s people just came out of British rule all sub continent countries. Religion didn't had much role before. This movie doesn't brainwash. This movie is not bhadkau at least it will help more people join army.

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43 minutes ago, gattaca said:

In 60s people just came out of British rule all sub continent countries. Religion didn't had much role before. This movie doesn't brainwash. This movie is not bhadkau at least it will help more people join army.

People in India don’t give a flying crap about their army. A nation can only be at peace when it is defended by brave men willing to die for those rights you take for granted. Unfortunately, some people cannot get this simple concept drilled into their cranium. 

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9 hours ago, gattaca said:

In 60s people just came out of British rule all sub continent countries. Religion didn't had much role before. This movie doesn't brainwash. This movie is not bhadkau at least it will help more people join army.

:facepalm:

We don't care for more people joining the army. For one, India has the 2nd largest active military in the world and 4th largest semi-professional military ( reserves and paramilitary). All this, despite there being no conscription. Its not exactly we need to boost our military enrollment, though @Stradlater with his military links can correct me. 

 

Secondly, modern warfare is moving fast beyond humans conducting warfare. The future is drones, cyber-warfare, etc. All where money, research, equipment and training are king, not raw number of bipeds. 

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9 hours ago, FischerTal said:

People in India don’t give a flying crap about their army. A nation can only be at peace when it is defended by brave men willing to die for those rights you take for granted. Unfortunately, some people cannot get this simple concept drilled into their cranium. 

Actually no. Nations are not at peace because there are brave men defending them. Israel has the bravest men & women defending them, who've done a good job of defending it, but the nation is not at peace for any meaningful stretch of time. Nations are at peace, in the last 200-odd years, with the ability of its diplomats to maintain a state of peace- via friendly and non-friendly gestures, towards its would-be threats. 

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1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

:facepalm:

We don't care for more people joining the army. For one, India has the 2nd largest active military in the world and 4th largest semi-professional military ( reserves and paramilitary). All this, despite there being no conscription. Its not exactly we need to boost our military enrollment, though @Stradlater with his military links can correct me. 

 

Secondly, modern warfare is moving fast beyond humans conducting warfare. The future is drones, cyber-warfare, etc. All where money, research, equipment and training are king, not raw number of bipeds. 

Have you seen US army ? How their enrollment and marketing is ? I haven’t yet seen anything like that from Indian army. My point being there needs to be some kind of marketing. When you are at the top do you stop marketing ? Does Apple stop marketing ? Think like a company. US army does that too.

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Just now, gattaca said:

Have you seen US army ? How their enrollment and marketing is ? I haven’t yet seen anything like that from Indian army. My point being there needs to be some kind of marketing. When you are at the top do you stop marketing ? Does Apple stop marketing ? Think like a company. US army does that too.

We don't need it. Who cares what the US army does. Their enrollment #s are different, due to different socio-economic situations. North Americans have a far more secure sense of the world and less inclination towards the military, primarily because North America is in one of those unique geo-political scenarios where their land borders are militaristically extremely secure and their two greatest allies - named Pacific and atlantic, keep all shenanigans few and far between or seen from a mile away. They don't face the same ' our neighbors are trying to sneak in terrorists all the time, waiting for us to snooze and grab our land' etc. stuff. 

Plus they had the whole ' make love not peace' from the Vietnam era, which still has a lot of cultural appeal. Different societies, different needs. India is in a far more dangerous neighborhood and as such, our bland old news is enough to inspire plenty towards desh-bhakti. 

I highly bout most Indian soldiers signed up due to movies or campaigns in the first place. All numbers suggest, the only problem facing Indian military is high end talent recruitment for the logistical/technical side of things, which is a factor of paygrade, not desh-bhakti.

You are not going to get dude with inclination and aptitude for engineering to fix or improve Indian hardware sitting in a base (the corporal or the captain of 5th engineers corps for eg) if he can make 10x in the US and 3x in the private sector. That is where we should be focussing on, not increasing our recruitment drive. 

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3 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Actually no. Nations are not at peace because there are brave men defending them. Israel has the bravest men & women defending them, who've done a good job of defending it, but the nation is not at peace for any meaningful stretch of time. Nations are at peace, in the last 200-odd years, with the ability of its diplomats to maintain a state of peace- via friendly and non-friendly gestures, towards its would-be threats. 

Indian diplomats gave back Haji Pir Pass in Tashkent  after it was painstakingly captured by Major Ranjit Singh Dayal and his boys. Today, Haji Pir Pass looks over most strategic features on the LoC from where Pakistani send their jihadis into JK from PoK. 

 

Indian diplomats, led by ex-Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran wanted to withdraw troops from Siachen as a Confidence Building Measure, completely sidelining the Army leadership which was totally against the move. It was only after NSA MK Narayanan vehemently opposed this deal that the UPA 1 government was forced to abandon this illogical plan. 

 

Diplomats dont send their own boys to war and thats precisely why they should not be given the responsibility of negotiating such delicate matters by themselves. Whatever peace India does enjoy is because of the men who stay alert at the borders, not some lallu panju sitting in Delhi who hasn't even made the slightest effort to wander outside of South Block. 

Edited by FischerTal

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19 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

Indian diplomats gave back Haji Pir Pass in Tashkent  after it was painstakingly captured by Major Ranjit Singh Dayal and his boys. Today, Haji Pir Pass looks over most strategic features on the LoC from where Pakistani send their jihadis into JK from PoK. 

 

Indian diplomats, led by ex-Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran wanted to withdraw troops from Siachen as a Confidence Building Measure, completely sidelining the Army leadership which was totally against the move. It was only after NSA MK Narayanan vehemently opposed this deal that the UPA 1 government was forced to abandon this illogical plan. 

 

Diplomats dont send their own boys to war and thats precisely why they should not be given the responsibility of negotiating such delicate matters by themselves. Whatever peace India does enjoy is because of the men who stay alert at the borders, not some lallu panju sitting in Delhi who hasn't even made the slightest effort to wander outside of South Block. 

Yeah but this only underscores my point that the security of a nation is detremined by the lallu-panjus sitting in Delhi. The military doesn't create security, they win wars and neutralize security threats- which by definition is being not secure. I am sure none of us would like the scenario of our jawaans winning 100 out of 100 encounter scenarios over terrorists taking hostages and crap, over our politicians doing their jobs and making sure the diplomatic consequences to sponsoring terrorism are heavier. 

 

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3 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

:facepalm:

We don't care for more people joining the army. For one, India has the 2nd largest active military in the world and 4th largest semi-professional military ( reserves and paramilitary). All this, despite there being no conscription. Its not exactly we need to boost our military enrollment, though @Stradlater with his military links can correct me. 

 

Secondly, modern warfare is moving fast beyond humans conducting warfare. The future is drones, cyber-warfare, etc. All where money, research, equipment and training are king, not raw number of bipeds. 

Instead we should concentrate on modernizing our ancient military infrastructure.

We already have way too many soldiers. 

Quality>Quantity

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41 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Instead we should concentrate on modernizing our ancient military infrastructure.

We already have way too many soldiers. 

Quality>Quantity

Do you know anything about the light tank program some of my army buds keep talking about ? Apparently we don't want very many arjuns or T-90s moving forward coz we want light tanks that can handle the himalayas better ?

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