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Even Pakistan’s lower order >>>> India’s

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recently, almost every time I opened a scorecard of a match in Eng, the scores were 330+ .... on these pitches, a batsman can back himself to get a 50 .... the problem would more be Ind's openers esp. if they play slowly and get out at the wrong time after wasting balls 

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6 minutes ago, zen said:

recently, almost every time I opened a scorecard of a match in Eng, the scores were 330+ .... on these pitches, a batsman can back himself to get a 50 .... the problem would more be Ind's openers esp. if they play slowly and get out at the wrong time after wasting balls 

I agree. TM needs to make Rohit  aware of the trends. Their approach was great when the pair first emerged: 2013-14. But a change needs to come about. 

 

Hopefully Prithvi Shaw will be our new opener post WC.

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Regarding the tail-end hitting power, Bhuvi and Shami are OK I guess. The latter has only 1 gear. Bumrah recently showed that he can wield the long handle in on of the ODIs v/s Aus. Its really the spinners that don't ahve the ability to hit out.

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Agree.

 

Also now I feel the CT final was lost by our batsmen, 350 is par on these pattas and even Pakistan can score those many especially when they are in form (that too on a sunny, cloudless Oval pancake). So long I was blaming our bowlers but that final was lost by our useless batsmen, 340 odd against that bowling was doable, not like they had a McGrath or Ambrose in their ranks. 

Edited by Gollum

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1 minute ago, Pandya_Power said:

Jesus Christ! Stop hyping heir Joe Averages. They will always be a #6 ranked side. DId you guys see the bowling they were thrashing? Woakes makes Bhuvi's knuckle balls look good. 

 

Pak is not a serious contender, no matter who they unearth.

No one is hyping them. The premise of this thread is that even their lower order can hack a few quick runs “even them” being a key word where as our middle order is either tuk tuk or filled with bunnies with the bat. 

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Indian bowlers must practice a lot with the bat. Chahal is worthless with the bat,  so may be not him. But Shami, bumrah and kuldeep must hone their batting skills before the world cup. 

 

I have a little hope for Shami and kuldeep. Shami if curbs his instincts,  can be handy and kuldeep has shown at times in the past that he can handle it. No worries over Bhuvi. He is a capable bat. Only thing that will give him an edge over Shami to be in the playing eleven. 

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2 minutes ago, Norman said:

Indian bowlers must practice a lot with the bat. Chahal is worthless with the bat,  so may be not him. But Shami, bumrah and kuldeep must hone their batting skills before the world cup. 

 

I have a little hope for Shami and kuldeep. Shami if curbs his instincts,  can be handy and kuldeep has shown at times in the past that he can handle it. No worries over Bhuvi. He is a capable bat. Only thing that will give him an edge over Shami to be in the playing eleven. 

Kuldeep or Bumrah at best are batsman who can give good support in a collapse situation by hanging in. They cannot hack the ball.

 

Shami and Bhuvi are capable of scoring some runs. In fact Bhuvi is miles better than Jadeja

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6 minutes ago, maniac said:

Kuldeep or Bumrah at best are batsman who can give good support in a collapse situation by hanging in. They cannot hack the ball.

 

Shami and Bhuvi are capable of scoring some runs. In fact Bhuvi is miles better than Jadeja

Agree. That's why I said they should practice some hitting or hacking as you say. Kuldeep is okay,  has shown he can hit it a few times. But Bumrah and chahal make Chris Martin look like ABD. 

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People blaming our top order. Serious question let us say Rohit gets out for 35(18), Dhawan for 50(30) and Kohli for 80(42) that is 165/3  from 15 overs what will be the final score we will still end up with given our current middle order?

 

I remember we were 300/3 after 40 and ended up with 375 odd with Pandey and Dhoni at the death against Srilanka I beleive 

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9 minutes ago, maniac said:

People blaming our top order. Serious question let us say Rohit gets out for 35(18), Dhawan for 50(30) and Kohli for 80(42) that is 165/3  from 15 overs what will be the final score we will still end up with given our current middle order?

Random numbers can be generated using =rand()  .... and no one can play for all 50 overs consistently 

 

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India remove India from query
Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 remove between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 from query
Batting position between 1 and 3 remove between 1 and 3 from query
Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 10 remove matches played greater than or equal to 10 from query
Ordered by batting strike rate (descending)
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Overall figures
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SRDescending 100 50 0 4s 6s  
V Kohli 10 10 0 604 123 60.40 642 94.08 3 1 0 56 5 investigate this query
S Dhawan 13 13 1 420 143 35.00 475 88.42 1 2 2 52 4 investigate this query
RG Sharma 13 13 0 556 133 42.76 701 79.31 1 4 1 44 16 investigate this query
 


also 35 of 18 > 43 of 54 :winky:

Edited by zen

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2 minutes ago, zen said:

Random numbers can be generated using =rand()  .... and no one can play for all 50 overs consistently 

 

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India remove India from query
Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 remove between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 from query
Batting position between 1 and 3 remove between 1 and 3 from query
Ordered by batting strike rate (descending)
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Overall figures
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SRDescending 100 50 0 4s 6s  
V Kohli 10 10 0 604 123 60.40 642 94.08 3 1 0 56 5 investigate this query
S Dhawan 13 13 1 420 143 35.00 475 88.42 1 2 2 52 4 investigate this query
KL Rahul 1 1 0 26 26 26.00 31 83.87 0 0 0 1 0 investigate this query
RG Sharma 13 13 0 556 133 42.76 701 79.31 1 4 1 44 16 investigate this query
Shubman Gill 2 2 0 16 9 8.00 32 50.00 0 0 0 2 0

 

also 35 of 18 > 43 of 54 :winky:

43 of 54 is not the target. The target is to carry the bat and end up with 150(125) :winky: for any of the top 3 and the others play around them

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9 minutes ago, maniac said:

43 of 54 is not the target. The target is to carry the bat and end up with 150(125) :winky: for any of the top 3 and the others play around them

Which is extremely difficult to do for him on current capabilities vs. major teams .... so that ends the story .... either play normal cricket or make way for a younger batsman 

 

PS Talking about random numbers, 165/3 after 15 > 165/3 after 35 overs. MO is likely to get a higher total in the first scenario as it can play itself in :winky:

Edited by zen

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14 minutes ago, maniac said:

People blaming our top order. Serious question let us say Rohit gets out for 35(18), Dhawan for 50(30) and Kohli for 80(42) that is 165/3  from 15 overs what will be the final score we will still end up with given our current middle order?

 

I remember we were 300/3 after 40 and ended up with 375 odd with Pandey and Dhoni at the death against Srilanka I beleive 

They have no clue, India's only hope is top3 fire and do well along with bowlers. India is not capable of outslugging other teams.

Edited by putrevus

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16 minutes ago, maniac said:

People blaming our top order. Serious question let us say Rohit gets out for 35(18), Dhawan for 50(30) and Kohli for 80(42) that is 165/3  from 15 overs what will be the final score we will still end up with given our current middle order?

Same ppl will say

  • They played irresponsible shots 
  • They havent gotten over t20 hangover 

 

 

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That's how they stacked their side, with a bunch of ARs. Watch how faheem gets hammered every game, yet gets picked coz he can hold a bat. Imad is their Krunal, getting the big stick from Roy. I'd rather pick Chahal/Kuldeep than these bits & pieces players but it wouldn't hurt for them to learn how to take singles & let #7 score some boundaries.

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Bowlers have to bowl not bat so if they are specialist and can pick up wickets then why you need their batting? last time we toured england our bowlers stopped them on avg less than 300 score in that series. If pak bowlers scores 40 - 50 then they give it that quickly in bowling as well. No need of bits and pieces player.

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Our lower order collectively can’t score a 50 ball 50 leave alone hacking the ball..They are the double phd students from Courtney Walsh University of Batting !!

 

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If we look at the performances this yr

 

top 7

 

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team Australia remove Australia from query or England remove England from query or India remove India from query or New Zealand remove New Zealand from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query
Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 remove between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 from query
Batting position between 1 and 7 remove between 1 and 7 from query
Grouped by team remove team from query
Ordered by batting strike rate (descending)
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Overall figures
Team Players Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SRDescending 100 50 0 4s 6s  
England 13 9 41 8 1715 150 51.96 1597 107.38 5 11 2 160 57 investigate this query
New Zealand 10 11 67 10 2509 138 44.01 2582 97.17 5 14 0 222 61 investigate this query
Australia 8 13 85 11 3372 153* 45.56 3713 90.81 6 21 5 296 60 investigate this query
South Africa 12 10 55 16 2111 121 54.12 2348 89.90 3 15 2 226 26 investigate this query
India 13 13 81 12 2809 143 40.71 3282 85.58 5 14 8 262 47

 

 

tail

 

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Primary team Australia remove Australia from query or England remove England from query or India remove India from query or New Zealand remove New Zealand from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query
Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 remove between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 from query
Batting position greater than or equal to 8 remove greater than or equal to 8 from query
Grouped by team remove team from query
Ordered by batting strike rate (descending)
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Overall figures
Team Players Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SRDescending 100 50 0 4s 6s  
Australia 9 13 22 11 149 29 13.54 147 101.36 0 0 3 13 1 investigate this query
New Zealand 9 11 20 7 200 57 15.38 228 87.71 0 1 2 12 9 investigate this query
India 9 13 27 8 258 46 13.57 333 77.47 0 0 2 18 9 investigate this query
England 7 9 9 3 65 47* 10.83 94 69.14 0 0 4 8 0 investigate this query
South Africa 10 10 8 2 25 8 4.16 58 43.10 0 0 2 1 0

 

 

  • Most of the runs are being scored and to be scored by the top 7

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India openers

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India remove India from query
Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 remove between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 from query
Batting position between 1 and 2 remove between 1 and 2 from query
Grouped by team remove team from query
Ordered by batting strike rate (descending)
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Overall figures
Team Players Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SRDescending 100 50 0 4s 6s  
India 2 13 26 1 976 143 39.04 1176 82.99 2 6 3 96 20

 

 

Ind 4-7

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India remove India from query
Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 remove between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 from query
Batting position between 4 and 7 remove between 4 and 7 from query
Grouped by team remove team from query
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Overall figures
Team Players Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SRDescending 100 50 0 4s 6s  
India 9 13 42 11 1187 90 38.29 1401 84.72 0 7 5 107 22

 

  • Despite getting to bat in a favorable environment, Ind openers have underperformed 
  • #4-7 avg 38 vs openers 39 

 

/thread

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14 minutes ago, zen said:

India openers

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India remove India from query
Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 remove between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 from query
Batting position between 1 and 2 remove between 1 and 2 from query
Grouped by team remove team from query
Ordered by batting strike rate (descending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 1 of 1   First pageFirst Previous pagePrevious Next Next page Last Last page dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu
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Overall figures
Team Players Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SRDescending 100 50 0 4s 6s  
India 2 13 26 1 976 143 39.04 1176 82.99 2 6 3 96 20

 

 

Ind 4-7

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India remove India from query
Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 remove between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 from query
Batting position between 4 and 7 remove between 4 and 7 from query
Grouped by team remove team from query
Ordered by batting strike rate (descending)
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Overall figures
Team Players Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SRDescending 100 50 0 4s 6s  
India 9 13 42 11 1187 90 38.29 1401 84.72 0 7 5 107 22

 

  • Despite getting to bat in a favorable environment, Ind openers have underperformed 
  • #4-7 avg 38 vs openers 39 

 

/thread

Favorable conditions :laugh:

 

13 games this year out of which some games were on Green manbas in Nzl.

 

By the same account Rayudu and Shankar are heroes and deserving a spot in the squad and Hardik has missed all of these games :laugh1:

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5 minutes ago, maniac said:

Favorable conditions :laugh:

 

13 games this year out of which some games were on Green manbas in Nzl.

 

By the same account Rayudu and Shankar are heroes and deserving a spot in the squad and Hardik has missed all of these games :laugh1:

For Rohit, may be anything that moves slightly is a mamba :dontknow:

 

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Primary team India remove India from query
Opposition team New Zealand remove New Zealand from query
Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 remove between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 from query
Batting position between 1 and 7 remove between 1 and 7 from query
Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 3 remove matches played greater than or equal to 3 from query
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Overall figures
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
AT Rayudu 5 5 2 190 90 63.33 231 82.25 0 1 1 18 6 investigate this query
V Kohli 3 3 0 148 60 49.33 178 83.14 0 1 0 14 1 investigate this query
MS Dhoni 3 2 1 49 48* 49.00 39 125.64 0 0 0 5 1 investigate this query
S Dhawan 5 5 1 188 75* 47.00 230 81.73 0 2 0 23 1 investigate this query
V Shankar 3 1 0 45 45 45.00 64 70.31 0 0 0 4 0 investigate this query
RG Sharma 5 5 0 169 87 33.80 236 71.61 0 2 0 13 5 investigate this query
KM Jadhav 5 3 1 57 34 28.50 62 91.93 0 0 0 6 1

 

 

PS and also the SR:phehe:
 
Edited by zen

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1 minute ago, zen said:

For Rohit, may be anything that moves slightly is a mamba :dontknow:

 

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Primary team India remove India from query
Opposition team New Zealand remove New Zealand from query
Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 remove between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019 from query
Batting position between 1 and 7 remove between 1 and 7 from query
Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 3 remove matches played greater than or equal to 3 from query
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Overall figures
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
AT Rayudu 5 5 2 190 90 63.33 231 82.25 0 1 1 18 6 investigate this query
V Kohli 3 3 0 148 60 49.33 178 83.14 0 1 0 14 1 investigate this query
MS Dhoni 3 2 1 49 48* 49.00 39 125.64 0 0 0 5 1 investigate this query
S Dhawan 5 5 1 188 75* 47.00 230 81.73 0 2 0 23 1 investigate this query
V Shankar 3 1 0 45 45 45.00 64 70.31 0 0 0 4 0 investigate this query
RG Sharma 5 5 0 169 87 33.80 236 71.61 0 2 0 13 5 investigate this query
KM Jadhav 5 3 1 57 34 28.50 62 91.93 0 0 0 6 1

 

 

PS and also the SR:phehe:
 

How is your sample set getting lower and lower :laugh: from 13 games to now 5. Oh wait may be because of that incredible 100 in Aus 

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3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Can you provide numbers behind that? Instead of %?  2(1) is a 200 strike rate where as 150(100) is a 159 strike rate.

 

Just use the numbers in the table posted here on this thread .... I did a calculation on the fly and do not save such files!

 

For e.g. 

Ind 1-7 = 2809; 8-11 = 258

Eng 1715; 65

and so on

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3 minutes ago, maniac said:

How is your sample set getting lower and lower :laugh: from 13 games to now 5. Oh wait may be because of that incredible 100 in Aus 

that was for NZ that you asked :lol:

 

"13 games this year out of which some games were on Green manbas in Nzl." .... Don't get panic attacks :p:

 

Close the thread

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Just now, zen said:

that was for NZ that you asked :lol:

 

"13 games this year out of which some games were on Green manbas in Nzl." .... Don't get panic attacks :p:

 

Close the thread

SR is not a factor on green mambas neutralizing new ball is. 236 balls is nearly 40 overs that is approx 8 overs per match neutralizing the new ball which helped us win the series. What a beast a mosnotrous 264 on one day and a sedate new ball neutralizing  knock on another :hatsoff: hallmark of a champion. Switching gears according to situation

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I see the usual brainless power play argument. These days entire 50 overs is a powerplay. 4 fielders outside 30 overs is as good as powerplay. Playing reckless cricket upfront and bringing Dhoni early is the ultimate stupid thing to do. Top three has to do bulk of the scoring like they did last two times in England. You cannot leave 40 overs to middle order in quest of  20 extra runs. Even today England was 74/1 Their pace picked up only after that. Pakistan was only 59/2 in the first 10. That is the modern day cricket score quickly in the middle and finish big. Even in IPL the team that finished big win 90% of the time. You could start well couple of wickets it will give so many opposition to claw back

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Since 2013 in ICC events vs. 5 major teams:

 

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Primary team India remove India from query
Opposition team Australia remove Australia from query or England remove England from query or New Zealand remove New Zealand from query or Pakistan remove Pakistan from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query
Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013 remove greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013 from query
Trophy ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut) remove ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut) from query or World Cup remove World Cup from query
Batting position between 1 and 7 remove between 1 and 7 from query
Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 9 remove matches played greater than or equal to 9 from query
Ordered by batting average (descending)
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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
V Kohli 2013-2017 9 9 3 412 107 68.66 479 86.01 1 2 0 33 5 investigate this query
S Dhawan 2013-2017 9 9 0 615 137 68.33 592 103.88 2 3 0 70 8 investigate this query
RG Sharma 2013-2017 9 9 0 244 91 27.11 343 71.13 0 2 2 22 6 investigate this query
MS Dhoni 2013-2017 9 6 0 132 65 22.00 135 97.77 0 1 1 10 3

 

 

Rohit and Dhoni need to pull up their socks or quit after the WC :hitler:

Edited by zen

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37 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I see the usual brainless power play argument. These days entire 50 overs is a powerplay. 4 fielders outside 30 overs is as good as powerplay. Playing reckless cricket upfront and bringing Dhoni early is the ultimate stupid thing to do. Top three has to do bulk of the scoring like they did last two times in England. You cannot leave 40 overs to middle order in quest of  20 extra runs. Even today England was 74/1 Their pace picked up only after that. Pakistan was only 59/2 in the first 10. That is the modern day cricket score quickly in the middle and finish big. Even in IPL the team that finished big win 90% of the time. You could start well couple of wickets it will give so many opposition to claw back

England where 172 in 20 overs . Indian openers won’t get to 130 on a good day . We lose early wickets I can understand going steady , my problem is on flat pitches we will be content scoring run a ball 

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In PP, we should target at least 70 runs .... if chasing RRR+1 in PP .... There is no reason to not get to that by playing "smart" cricket

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23 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

England where 172 in 20 overs . Indian openers won’t get to 130 on a good day . We lose early wickets I can understand going steady , my problem is on flat pitches we will be content scoring run a ball 

Here is the problem England has Morgan Stokes Root in the middle They can sustain the rate. We have Dhoni Jadhav possibly Shankar. These three cannot sustain. Even at their worst Rohit Dhawan  > Shankar Jadhav Dhoni. I would rather want them to bat for than Dhoni and co.  Getting those 20 extra runs in the first 10 will amount to nothing. Dhoni will blame the pitch and get away. Also our lower order is super weak.

High time we realize we are

not batting strong anymore we are bowling strong team So  we have to stop

thinking about 350 all the time

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1 hour ago, jusarrived said:

England where 172 in 20 overs . Indian openers won’t get to 130 on a good day . We lose early wickets I can understand going steady , my problem is on flat pitches we will be content scoring run a ball 

Exactly, have to play as per the conditions and not some preconceived formula or perception 

 

The issue is in trying to discuss with guys who opposes likes of Pant to support Dhoni, Shankar and DK because they perceive them to be playing “safe” cricket, which is basically getting out LBW with a low score vs going for a 6. And then these guys would criticize Dhoni and Shankar, whom they support, to justify likes of Rohit playing perceived “safe” cricket and shield those guys, and when it is hard to play long innings consistently

 

If a player is in form, he will take less time to get going. If not, he is likely to get out at the first challenge

Edited by zen

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42 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Here is the problem England has Morgan Stokes Root in the middle They can sustain the rate. We have Dhoni Jadhav possibly Shankar. These three cannot sustain. Even at their worst Rohit Dhawan  > Shankar Jadhav Dhoni. I would rather want them to bat for than Dhoni and co.  Getting those 20 extra runs in the first 10 will amount to nothing. Dhoni will blame the pitch and get away. Also our lower order is super weak.

High time we realize we are

not batting strong anymore we are bowling strong team So  we have to stop

thinking about 350 all the time

Morgan/stokes/root are not that great , you are overrating them . Anyway , i will not even talk about England’s batting, which is far superior in every aspect . Are we better than even Pakistan though ?  It dosent make sense comparing Rohit/Dhawan with our middle order , compare them with imam/fakar ..are they any better? ... I have accepted long back that our batting is average , which includes our opening . Rohit and Dhawan are one of the weakest opening pair in this WC . 

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4 hours ago, maniac said:

Kuldeep or Bumrah at best are batsman who can give good support in a collapse situation by hanging in. They cannot hack the ball.

 

Shami and Bhuvi are capable of scoring some runs. In fact Bhuvi is miles better than Jadeja

True.. in  90s you needed a tail that can hang in and try the target of  30 of 30 balls in chases or score a handy 8 of 9 balls while batting first.. cannot imagine both these scenarios now.. you need more of what Hassan Ali has done today.. strike rate should always be in excess of 160

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35 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Morgan/stokes/root are not that great , you are overrating them . Anyway , i will not even talk about England’s batting, which is far superior in every aspect . Are we better than even Pakistan though ?  It dosent make sense comparing Rohit/Dhawan with our middle order , compare them with imam/fakar ..are they any better? ... I have accepted long back that our batting is average , which includes our opening . Rohit and Dhawan are one of the weakest opening pair in this WC . 

Your batting strategy should be based on your batting line up not based on Pakistan's batting line up. Hasan Ali can come down the order and can score a 50 Can Bumrah do that?  Unless you can be certain it is worth taking risk in the first 10 overs for an extra 20 runs, it is way too risky to be adventurous for a fragile line up like ours.  Pandya is highly effective when he comes somewhere after 35 overs. Morgan/Stokes/Root are not that great? They are like 100 times better than our middle order. Then they have Ali who can bat, Rashid who can bat, Woakes cho can bat, Archer who can bat. It will be Delhi collapso team. Every single wicket is precious for us upto 45th over. Risks should be calculated. INspite of all the weaknesses you are talking about India has the second highest run rate in the last 2 yeasr at 5.69. England 6.27 (including today's match). But to counter that India on an average concedes 5.09 runs per over. England gives away 5.82 runs per over. Net difference is better for India

Edited by vvvslaxman

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1 hour ago, zen said:

Exactly, have to play as per the conditions and not some preconceived formula or perception 

 

The issue is in trying to discuss with guys who opposes likes of Pant to support Dhoni, Shankar and DK because they perceive them to be playing “safe” cricket, which is basically getting out LBW with a low score vs going for a 6. And then these guys would criticize Dhoni and Shankar, whom they support, to justify likes of Rohit playing perceived “safe” cricket and shield those guys, and when it is hard to play long innings consistently

 

If a player is in form, he will take less time to get going. If not, he is likely to get out at the first challenge

I dare any batsman to score most 180+ knocks in the history of cricket with the most selfish of approach and on the flattest of wickets. You have to be a genius to even achieve that.

 

There is a reason why Rohit has a sedate approach. We have had  a middle order of Jadhav,Shankar,Dhoni,Rayudu,Pandey,Pandya (good hitter but unreliable for long knocks) etc etc. 

 

We have an ATG bat in Kohli and Dhawan who has been mostly hit or miss recently.

 

Rohit apart from Pandya (whose ability against pace has improved recently) and Dhoni (past his prime) is the only genuine 6 hitter. Record speaks for itself.

 

Put Viv Richards in the team and ask him to open still won’t solve the problems.

 

We need a Yuvraj/Raina or even an Irfan Pathan or Bhajji in his prime type player.

 

solution to having a beautiful face and an ugly body is diet and exercise, not plastic surgery

 

problem is not top order is the middle order 

Edited by maniac

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31 minutes ago, maniac said:

I dare any batsman to score most 180+ knocks in the history of cricket with the most selfish of approach and on the flattest of wickets. You have to be a genius to even achieve that.

 

There is a reason why Rohit has a sedate approach. We have had  a middle order of Jadhav,Shankar,Dhoni,Rayudu,Pandey,Pandya (good hitter but unreliable for long knocks) etc etc. 

 

We have an ATG bat in Kohli and Dhawan who has been mostly hit or miss recently.

 

Rohit apart from Pandya (whose ability against pace has improved recently) and Dhoni (past his prime) is the only genuine 6 hitter. Record speaks for itself.

 

Put Viv Richards in the team and ask him to open still won’t solve the problems.

 

We need a Yuvraj/Raina or even an Irfan Pathan or Bhajji in his prime type player.

 

solution to having a beautiful face and an ugly body is diet and exercise, not plastic surgery

We  cannot mess up Ind’s total to play a 3 figure knock in 1 out of 13 inning, which no one cares for  

 

And the  data is available on this thread on how others have performed. Additionally on good batting pitches, there is no reason to assume others will fail .... and who asked Ind to select Dhoni if he is so bad

 

Note Viv Richards is a consistent performer vs major teams in world events. Rohit has performed like a tail ender (vs major teams)

 

Ind does not need a night watchman in ODIs esp. on such surfaces. If Rohit cannot set the tone and hope to hit a quick 100 on such surfaces, he should bat lower down or Ind should play someone else!

 

Edited by zen

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I think its essential the middle order ups its game this WC. That means KLR / Shankar, MSD, Jadhav / Pant & Pandya have to learn to construct an innings. They all have the talent, its about the temperament now.

 

Problem is they have been short of match practice with our top 3 bei g good on most roads. Ideally our #4 should have got 15 games on the trot before the WC. One could say Rayudu wasn't going to make the cut, shouldn't have invested in him.

 

So its simple really - for IND to lift the cup bats #4 - #7 have to start striking at >130 and also average ~35. MSD needs to take good look at how the other top contenders approach batting nowadays.

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9 hours ago, maniac said:

 

solution to having a beautiful face and an ugly body is diet and exercise

 

 

Yeah Rohit is a little unfit and heavy, but calling his body ugly is a bit too harsh.

 

 

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13 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Your batting strategy should be based on your batting line up not based on Pakistan's batting line up. Hasan Ali can come down the order and can score a 50 Can Bumrah do that?  Unless you can be certain it is worth taking risk in the first 10 overs for an extra 20 runs, it is way too risky to be adventurous for a fragile line up like ours.  Pandya is highly effective when he comes somewhere after 35 overs. Morgan/Stokes/Root are not that great? They are like 100 times better than our middle order. Then they have Ali who can bat, Rashid who can bat, Woakes cho can bat, Archer who can bat. It will be Delhi collapso team. Every single wicket is precious for us upto 45th over. Risks should be calculated. INspite of all the weaknesses you are talking about India has the second highest run rate in the last 2 yeasr at 5.69. England 6.27 (including today's match). But to counter that India on an average concedes 5.09 runs per over. England gives away 5.82 runs per over. Net difference is better for India

So our openers play without any intent cos 9 batsmen following them are useless , then why do we hate Dhoni who comes in at 3 or 4 down and starts blocking ? Does it get easier with only 5 useless bats to follow ?

I could also argue that our middle order is made to look worse than they are cos of our poor top order which sucks the momentum out of the innings and cos of poor lower order there is always pressure of being a wicket away from collapsing. 

 

As for comparing with Pakistan , have you seen their middle order ? bunch of unknowns followed by Sarfaraz  ..we are giving some lame excuses for our top orders

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14 hours ago, zen said:

We  cannot mess up Ind’s total to play a 3 figure knock in 1 out of 13 inning, which no one cares for  

 

And the  data is available on this thread on how others have performed. Additionally on good batting pitches, there is no reason to assume others will fail .... and who asked Ind to select Dhoni if he is so bad

 

Note Viv Richards is a consistent performer vs major teams in world events. Rohit has performed like a tail ender (vs major teams)

 

Ind does not need a night watchman in ODIs esp. on such surfaces. If Rohit cannot set the tone and hope to hit a quick 100 on such surfaces, he should bat lower down or Ind should play someone else!

 

 

The Pakistani opening pair gets one every 6 innings between them lol and I think Fakar/Imam are pretty average . 

As for this theory of Sharma playing slow for the team , somehow it dosent apply to Dhawan .. the poor guy has to take all the risks even when hes out of form 

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