Rohit is Good but We will be better without him as well..

[RAZPOR]

Its probably just me but i feel we need rahul in middle order more than in the opening slot,we need a solid no. 4.

I don't know about rohit though ,but he is way to inconsistent at times and takes away momentum at top.

Edited August 22, 2017 by RAZPOR

[Tibarn]

You don't drop an opener who averages over 50 and scores at an almost 90 strike rate. Our top 3: Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli basically wins us almost all our matches. The rest of the order is what needs to be augmented to support the top 3.  

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, RAZPOR said:

Its probably just me but i feel we need rahul in middle order more than in the opening slot,we need a solid no. 4.

 

 

 

Solidity when team is in trouble and ability to hit those big 6s when he bats past the 40th over ..... Can play both pace and spin....... Rahul is ideal for No.4

 

Him batting at 4 provides us a lot of flexibility.

Edited August 22, 2017 by express bowling

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, The Dark Horse said:

Not just Rohit, there's a big list. Even veterans of the game are clouded by that.

 

David Gower and Mark Waugh come to mind     : )

 

They were good batsmen but their batting elegance made experts treat them as greats.

[rkt.india]

That is a good assumption.

[Tibarn]

This current match shows why Rohit is important. He, Dhawan, and Kohli provide so much stability to our ODI lineup. 

 

Look how raw and untested the lower order is. 

[SK_IH]

11 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

This current match shows why Rohit is important. He, Dhawan, and Kohli provide so much stability to our ODI lineup. 

 

Look how raw and untested the lower order is. 

hitman shouldve finished this off like dhawan last game

rightly the mgmt messed around with batting order ,there might have been some complacency 

[jf1gp_1]

hitman shouldve finished this off like dhawan last game
rightly the mgmt messed around with batting order ,there might have been some complacency 

So should have 5 other batsman who combined made less than wides.

[SK_IH]

37 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

So should have 5 other batsman who combined made less than wides.

cant blame batsmen who got out 1st or 2nd ball,onus is on set batsman to get a big score 

[sarcastic]

5 hours ago, SK_IH said:

cant blame batsmen who got out 1st or 2nd ball,onus is on set batsman to get a big score 

Onus is also on the new batsmen to take time and get set when there were sufficient balls to get to the target. This would have been understandable had it been the case that there were any balls left and they had no option but to slog. That is not the case yesterday. They all lined up like train bogies and batted like they were in a hurry to catch a plane. 

Having said all this, I fully agree that Rohit or any set batsman should do their best to finish the match themselves and not get OUT for a fairly harmless delivery. 

[jf1gp_1]

6 hours ago, SK_IH said:

cant blame batsmen who got out 1st or 2nd ball,onus is on set batsman to get a big score 

start of 100 by openers under 18 overs in an odi and it's still their fault ?

[jusarrived]

On 8/24/2017 at 10:00 PM, Tibarn said:

This current match shows why Rohit is important. He, Dhawan, and Kohli provide so much stability to our ODI lineup. 

 

Look how raw and untested the lower order is. 

Will give it t him , this was a good innings . The problem though is this was his fastest 50 in ODI's , so clearly this current match shows nothing .

 

Dhawan does this regularly and does better , gives us starts and goes on to finish games like how he did in the first match . 

[Pollack]

On 24/08/2017 at 10:00 PM, Tibarn said:

This current match shows why Rohit is important. He, Dhawan, and Kohli provide so much stability to our ODI lineup. 

 

Look how raw and untested the lower order is. 

Rohit can never provide any stability. He is the most unreliable batsman in times of need. One can almost bet him to fail 95% of times when its really difficult. Agreed about dhawan and kohli bringing stability.

[Scar]

So many posters here are missing the point. Rohit is not someone who can take attack to the bowlers from the word go, he takes too many balls to settle in and never unsettle the bowler unlike dhawan and kohli. Next WC is in England and it might swing early, can't afford to have a dud opening against Amir/ starc & co. Moreover, he hardly perform in important matches save for matches against bangs. We need someone who gung ho on the leather like sehwag use to do and make bowlers his bit*h. Rahul can easily do that and that's why I want him over hit-my-pads-man. A opener with 50 (30) is always better than someone with 72 (81) type scores.

[Tibarn]

These are the numbers for ODI openers since 1 Jan 2015, with a minimum of 20 innings of batting:

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
DA Warner (AUS)	2015-2017	45	44	3	2465	179	60.12	2310	106.70	11	6	0	264	40
RG Sharma (INDIA)	2015-2017	34	34	3	1741	171*	56.16	1854	93.90	6	9	3	155	52
MJ Guptill (NZ)	2015-2017	55	55	7	2522	237*	52.54	2564	98.36	7	13	6	271	81
Tamim Iqbal (BDESH)	2015-2017	38	37	3	1772	132	52.11	2213	80.07	5	11	3	197	21
TM Dilshan (SL)	2015-2016	30	28	1	1286	161*	47.62	1437	89.49	4	6	2	143	8
HM Amla (SA)	2015-2017	52	52	3	2235	159	45.61	2450	91.22	8	8	1	249	27
S Dhawan (INDIA)	2015-2017	39	39	1	1724	137	45.36	1822	94.62	5	10	0	214	24
Q de Kock (SA)	2015-2017	50	50	3	2037	178	43.34	2072	98.31	6	10	2	238	34
AD Hales (ENG)	2015-2017	40	40	1	1639	171	42.02	1652	99.21	5	10	3	185	37
Azhar Ali (PAK)	2015-2017	33	33	0	1288	102	39.03	1630	79.01	3	7	1	120	11
TWM Latham (NZ)	2015-2017	32	32	3	1110	137	38.27	1324	83.83	3	7	4	103	17
Soumya Sarkar (BDESH)	2015-2017	24	23	3	765	127*	38.25	769	99.47	1	5	3	94	16
Mohammad Shahzad (AFG)	2015-2017	28	28	1	994	131*	36.81	1075	92.46	1	6	1	117	22
JJ Roy (ENG)	2015-2017	45	45	2	1462	162	34.00	1446	101.10	3	9	4	179	18
MD Gunathilaka (SL)	2015-2017	27	26	0	874	116	33.61	1008	86.70	1	7	1	89	13
MDKJ Perera (SL)	2015-2016	22	21	0	687	135	32.71	689	99.70	2	3	1	74	14
BB McCullum (NZ)	2015-2016	27	27	0	883	117	32.70	570	154.91	1	6	3	115	42
AJ Finch (AUS)	2015-2017	45	43	1	1371	135	32.64	1511	90.73	2	11	4	146	30
PR Stirling (IRE)	2015-2017	32	31	0	958	99	30.90	1077	88.95	0	7	5	108	22

 

These are the only batsmen who average of 30. 

 

Only 3 batsmen have a strike rate over 100, Warner, McCullum, and Roy. Only Warner of the 3 has an average over 40. McCullum is retired. 

 

Only 4 batsmen average over 50, one of those 4 has a strike rate of only 80. 

 

There is only 1 David Warner: averaging 60 at a strike rate of 106.  He is probably the best ODI opener in the world. 

 

Rohit has as good an argument as anyone else as the 2nd best. He is not the problem in our batting lineup.

 

Fix our 4, 5, 6, 7 and we will be fine. It is the lower order which is meant to build on the starts that the top order makes. High strike rates and boundary hitting ability is what we need to focus on down the order. Dhawan, Rohit, and Kohli all have upper echelon strike rates in ODIs.  The last 10 overs of an ODI are those where we have been failing recently.  Those are the overs where we should be looking to score those extra runs which will make good totals into match winning totals, IMO.  

[Pollack]

@Tibarn  Problem is you are comparing rohit to contemporary openers and not trying to understand the team's need. Currently most teams have unsettled openers. Just look at the list you posted. Who are Rohit Sharma competitors? M Guptill, Tamil Iqbal, Dilshan..   Among top 5 only Warner is good. Also you are not understanding that most openers today play aggresively in initial overs to make the most of PP overs and try to give their team good start. It is quite obvious for someone like Rohit to maintain high average because he takes advantage of PP for his own settling in. So chances of getting out are less compared to his contemporary openers.Forget he does not even accelerate in middle overs. 

[SK_IH]

27 minutes ago, Pollack said:

@Tibarn  Problem is you are comparing rohit to contemporary openers and not trying to understand the team's need. Currently most teams have unsettled openers. Just look at the list you posted. Who are Rohit Sharma competitors? M Guptill, Tamil Iqbal, Dilshan..   Among top 5 only Warner is good. Also you are not understanding that most openers today play aggresively in initial overs to make the most of PP overs and try to give their team good start. It is quite obvious for someone like Rohit to maintain high average because he takes advantage of PP for his own settling in. So chances of getting out are less compared to his contemporary openers.Forget he does not even accelerate in middle overs. 

wonderful post agree completely but will add that dekock is also great opener along with warner and i ll happliy take someone like roy ahead of hitman in the side 

[Vilander]

Thread owned by hitman. This is odi and he is boss in it.

[Tibarn]

@Pollack

 

Nah, I understand that you guys want someone who scores at a high strike rate as opener and particularly for the power-play. IMO you guys are overrating the power-play scoring at the start of a match, the 1st 10 overs. In my opinion, the last 10 overs are where we are found wanting. The 1st ten overs it's better to have a decent score and not lose wickets IMO

 

Here are some numbers

http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/92206/one-day-internationals-crickets-350-plus-runs-upsurge-a-numbers-story

1) Average & run rates at various stages of 300+ totals:

 

 

	30 Oct 2012 - 04 Jul 2015			05 Jul 2015 onwards
	RR	Avg	BPB	RR	Avg	BPB
O 1-10	5.36	72.11	7.92	5.95	71.24	6.94
O 11-40	6.12	68.02	9.62	6.23	71.75	9.77
O 41-50	10.01	35.13	4.66	9.45	31.06	5.64

 

 

(Note: BPB refers to ball per boundary)

 

We can see that the average powerplay score went from 54 runs to 60 runs, when teams score 300. Cool, on average we probably bat slower than that.  

 

However, in the bulk of the innings, overs 11-40, we are usually #1 or #2 to the Aussies in RR. Our lads take singles like no other team. That is where the bulk of the runs are scored.  

 

Also the final 10 overs are where batsmen are expected to go crazy. Even in the modern game. 9.45 RR in the last 10 overs vs 5.95 in the 1st 10 implies what I said, we need to focus on bring our RR up in the last 10. 

 

We can see that teams still score at a higher RR in both the middle and death overs, when compared to the 1st 10 overs. 

 

2) Team-wise distribution of 300+ totals:

 

	30 Oct 2012 - 04 Jul 2015			05 Jul 2015 onwards
	300+ scores	Inngs	Percentage	300+ scores	Inngs	Percentage
Aus	19	53	35.85%	11	39	28.21%
Ban	5	42	11.90%	0	15	0.00%
Eng	11	62	17.74%	13	30	43.33%
Ind	16	73	21.92%	7	24	29.17%
NZ	12	60	20.00%	3	27	11.11%
Pak	7	66	10.61%	6	28	21.43%
SA	16	61	26.23%	12	34	35.29%
SL	13	79	16.46%	6	33	18.18%
WI	7	54	12.96%	1	17	5.88%
Zim	2	39	5.13%	1	33	3.03%

  

 

We are 3rd in the world since July 2015 in terms of how many of our innings end up in us scoring over 300 runs. Our share of innings over 300 has also increased from 22 percent to 29 percent of our innings being 300 scores. 

 

3) Contribution of each batsman in India's 300+ totals:

 

When we do score 300+ scores, our runs tend to come from 3 batsmen, in order: 1) Rohit, 2) Kohli, 3) Dhawan. 

 

Finally

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=win_loss_ratio;spanmin1=05+Jul+2015;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

4) WL Record

 

Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	NR	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
England	2015-2017	42	27	13	1	1	2.076	40.41	6.06	42	444	138
Hong Kong	2015-2017	10	6	3	0	1	2.000	30.62	5.03	10	298	174
India	2015-2017	37	23	13	0	1	1.769	45.95	5.74	37	381	158
South Africa	2015-2017	44	27	16	0	1	1.687	39.51	5.76	44	438	162
Australia	2015-2017	45	25	17	0	3	1.470	36.55	5.80	44	378	142
Afghanistan	2015-2017	32	17	13	0	2	1.307	25.29	4.70	31	338	58
New Zealand	2015-2017	41	22	17	0	2	1.294	33.73	5.57	41	344	79
Bangladesh	2015-2017	26	12	11	0	3	1.090	32.31	5.31	25	324	160
Pakistan	2015-2017	36	18	18	0	0	1.000	37.24	5.58	36	338	164
Scotland	2016-2017	11	4	5	0	2	0.800	27.54	5.05	10	327	132
Sri Lanka	2015-2017	49	16	28	1	4	0.571	31.29	5.40	47	377	117
U.A.E.	2015-2017	11	4	7	0	0	0.571	24.43	4.69	11	292	146
Zimbabwe	2015-2017	45	15	28	1	1	0.535	23.66	4.62	45	322	54
P.N.G.	2016-2017	6	2	4	0	0	0.500	21.78	4.48	6	244	148
Ireland	2015-2017	26	7	18	0	1	0.388	24.55	4.88	25	304	82
West Indies	2015-2017	31	7	21	1	2	0.333	24.33	4.83	29	329	116

 

We're 2nd in W-L ratio to England since July 2015, but our runs per wicket comes out on top at 45 while England's is 40. Our runs per over (RPO) is basically the same as SA and Australia. England is way ahead of everyone at 6 RPO. 

 

All this to me implies that we don't have a problem with Rohit as opener. When a batsman is the top contributor to your 300 plus scores, he is not the problem. It's the lower-middle and lower order that needs to improve to give us those extra 30-40 runs. We can't have players like Rahane and Yuvraj down the order in the last 10 overs, when we need to hit the gas. It's the last 10 overs where we lose the plot, even when our top 3 set us up, IMO.

[Pollack]

13 hours ago, Vilander said:

Thread owned by hitman. This is odi and he is boss in it.

Nobody thought he wouldn't against SL. When was the last time he owned AUS, NZ, SA, ENG? He even faltered against 'nothing special' Amir (in his own view).