RAZPOR Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) Its probably just me but i feel we need rahul in middle order more than in the opening slot,we need a solid no. 4. I don't know about rohit though ,but he is way to inconsistent at times and takes away momentum at top. Edited August 22, 2017 by RAZPOR swastikpanda2 and express bowling 1 1 Link to comment
Tibarn Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 You don't drop an opener who averages over 50 and scores at an almost 90 strike rate. Our top 3: Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli basically wins us almost all our matches. The rest of the order is what needs to be augmented to support the top 3. RAZPOR, sarcastic and swastikpanda2 3 Link to comment
express bowling Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, RAZPOR said: Its probably just me but i feel we need rahul in middle order more than in the opening slot,we need a solid no. 4. Solidity when team is in trouble and ability to hit those big 6s when he bats past the 40th over ..... Can play both pace and spin....... Rahul is ideal for No.4 Him batting at 4 provides us a lot of flexibility. Edited August 22, 2017 by express bowling swastikpanda2 and RAZPOR 2 Link to comment
express bowling Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 2 hours ago, The Dark Horse said: Not just Rohit, there's a big list. Even veterans of the game are clouded by that. David Gower and Mark Waugh come to mind : ) They were good batsmen but their batting elegance made experts treat them as greats. The Dark Horse and Ankit_sharma03 2 Link to comment
rkt.india Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 That is a good assumption. Link to comment
Tibarn Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 This current match shows why Rohit is important. He, Dhawan, and Kohli provide so much stability to our ODI lineup. Look how raw and untested the lower order is. sarcastic 1 Link to comment
SK_IH Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, Tibarn said: This current match shows why Rohit is important. He, Dhawan, and Kohli provide so much stability to our ODI lineup. Look how raw and untested the lower order is. hitman shouldve finished this off like dhawan last game rightly the mgmt messed around with batting order ,there might have been some complacency Link to comment
jf1gp_1 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 hitman shouldve finished this off like dhawan last game rightly the mgmt messed around with batting order ,there might have been some complacency So should have 5 other batsman who combined made less than wides. sarcastic 1 Link to comment
SK_IH Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 37 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said: So should have 5 other batsman who combined made less than wides. cant blame batsmen who got out 1st or 2nd ball,onus is on set batsman to get a big score Link to comment
sarcastic Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 5 hours ago, SK_IH said: cant blame batsmen who got out 1st or 2nd ball,onus is on set batsman to get a big score Onus is also on the new batsmen to take time and get set when there were sufficient balls to get to the target. This would have been understandable had it been the case that there were any balls left and they had no option but to slog. That is not the case yesterday. They all lined up like train bogies and batted like they were in a hurry to catch a plane. Having said all this, I fully agree that Rohit or any set batsman should do their best to finish the match themselves and not get OUT for a fairly harmless delivery. Link to comment
jf1gp_1 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 6 hours ago, SK_IH said: cant blame batsmen who got out 1st or 2nd ball,onus is on set batsman to get a big score start of 100 by openers under 18 overs in an odi and it's still their fault ? sarcastic 1 Link to comment
jusarrived Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 On 8/24/2017 at 10:00 PM, Tibarn said: This current match shows why Rohit is important. He, Dhawan, and Kohli provide so much stability to our ODI lineup. Look how raw and untested the lower order is. Will give it t him , this was a good innings . The problem though is this was his fastest 50 in ODI's , so clearly this current match shows nothing . Dhawan does this regularly and does better , gives us starts and goes on to finish games like how he did in the first match . Link to comment
Pollack Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 On 24/08/2017 at 10:00 PM, Tibarn said: This current match shows why Rohit is important. He, Dhawan, and Kohli provide so much stability to our ODI lineup. Look how raw and untested the lower order is. Rohit can never provide any stability. He is the most unreliable batsman in times of need. One can almost bet him to fail 95% of times when its really difficult. Agreed about dhawan and kohli bringing stability. Link to comment
Scar Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 So many posters here are missing the point. Rohit is not someone who can take attack to the bowlers from the word go, he takes too many balls to settle in and never unsettle the bowler unlike dhawan and kohli. Next WC is in England and it might swing early, can't afford to have a dud opening against Amir/ starc & co. Moreover, he hardly perform in important matches save for matches against bangs. We need someone who gung ho on the leather like sehwag use to do and make bowlers his bit*h. Rahul can easily do that and that's why I want him over hit-my-pads-man. A opener with 50 (30) is always better than someone with 72 (81) type scores. wanted_desi 1 Link to comment
Tibarn Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 These are the numbers for ODI openers since 1 Jan 2015, with a minimum of 20 innings of batting: Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s DA Warner (AUS) 2015-2017 45 44 3 2465 179 60.12 2310 106.70 11 6 0 264 40 RG Sharma (INDIA) 2015-2017 34 34 3 1741 171* 56.16 1854 93.90 6 9 3 155 52 MJ Guptill (NZ) 2015-2017 55 55 7 2522 237* 52.54 2564 98.36 7 13 6 271 81 Tamim Iqbal (BDESH) 2015-2017 38 37 3 1772 132 52.11 2213 80.07 5 11 3 197 21 TM Dilshan (SL) 2015-2016 30 28 1 1286 161* 47.62 1437 89.49 4 6 2 143 8 HM Amla (SA) 2015-2017 52 52 3 2235 159 45.61 2450 91.22 8 8 1 249 27 S Dhawan (INDIA) 2015-2017 39 39 1 1724 137 45.36 1822 94.62 5 10 0 214 24 Q de Kock (SA) 2015-2017 50 50 3 2037 178 43.34 2072 98.31 6 10 2 238 34 AD Hales (ENG) 2015-2017 40 40 1 1639 171 42.02 1652 99.21 5 10 3 185 37 Azhar Ali (PAK) 2015-2017 33 33 0 1288 102 39.03 1630 79.01 3 7 1 120 11 TWM Latham (NZ) 2015-2017 32 32 3 1110 137 38.27 1324 83.83 3 7 4 103 17 Soumya Sarkar (BDESH) 2015-2017 24 23 3 765 127* 38.25 769 99.47 1 5 3 94 16 Mohammad Shahzad (AFG) 2015-2017 28 28 1 994 131* 36.81 1075 92.46 1 6 1 117 22 JJ Roy (ENG) 2015-2017 45 45 2 1462 162 34.00 1446 101.10 3 9 4 179 18 MD Gunathilaka (SL) 2015-2017 27 26 0 874 116 33.61 1008 86.70 1 7 1 89 13 MDKJ Perera (SL) 2015-2016 22 21 0 687 135 32.71 689 99.70 2 3 1 74 14 BB McCullum (NZ) 2015-2016 27 27 0 883 117 32.70 570 154.91 1 6 3 115 42 AJ Finch (AUS) 2015-2017 45 43 1 1371 135 32.64 1511 90.73 2 11 4 146 30 PR Stirling (IRE) 2015-2017 32 31 0 958 99 30.90 1077 88.95 0 7 5 108 22 These are the only batsmen who average of 30. Only 3 batsmen have a strike rate over 100, Warner, McCullum, and Roy. Only Warner of the 3 has an average over 40. McCullum is retired. Only 4 batsmen average over 50, one of those 4 has a strike rate of only 80. There is only 1 David Warner: averaging 60 at a strike rate of 106. He is probably the best ODI opener in the world. Rohit has as good an argument as anyone else as the 2nd best. He is not the problem in our batting lineup. Fix our 4, 5, 6, 7 and we will be fine. It is the lower order which is meant to build on the starts that the top order makes. High strike rates and boundary hitting ability is what we need to focus on down the order. Dhawan, Rohit, and Kohli all have upper echelon strike rates in ODIs. The last 10 overs of an ODI are those where we have been failing recently. Those are the overs where we should be looking to score those extra runs which will make good totals into match winning totals, IMO. Link to comment
Pollack Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 @Tibarn Problem is you are comparing rohit to contemporary openers and not trying to understand the team's need. Currently most teams have unsettled openers. Just look at the list you posted. Who are Rohit Sharma competitors? M Guptill, Tamil Iqbal, Dilshan.. Among top 5 only Warner is good. Also you are not understanding that most openers today play aggresively in initial overs to make the most of PP overs and try to give their team good start. It is quite obvious for someone like Rohit to maintain high average because he takes advantage of PP for his own settling in. So chances of getting out are less compared to his contemporary openers.Forget he does not even accelerate in middle overs. SK_IH and jusarrived 2 Link to comment
SK_IH Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 27 minutes ago, Pollack said: @Tibarn Problem is you are comparing rohit to contemporary openers and not trying to understand the team's need. Currently most teams have unsettled openers. Just look at the list you posted. Who are Rohit Sharma competitors? M Guptill, Tamil Iqbal, Dilshan.. Among top 5 only Warner is good. Also you are not understanding that most openers today play aggresively in initial overs to make the most of PP overs and try to give their team good start. It is quite obvious for someone like Rohit to maintain high average because he takes advantage of PP for his own settling in. So chances of getting out are less compared to his contemporary openers.Forget he does not even accelerate in middle overs. wonderful post agree completely but will add that dekock is also great opener along with warner and i ll happliy take someone like roy ahead of hitman in the side Link to comment
Vilander Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Thread owned by hitman. This is odi and he is boss in it. velu 1 Link to comment
Tibarn Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 @Pollack Nah, I understand that you guys want someone who scores at a high strike rate as opener and particularly for the power-play. IMO you guys are overrating the power-play scoring at the start of a match, the 1st 10 overs. In my opinion, the last 10 overs are where we are found wanting. The 1st ten overs it's better to have a decent score and not lose wickets IMO Here are some numbers http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/92206/one-day-internationals-crickets-350-plus-runs-upsurge-a-numbers-story 1) Average & run rates at various stages of 300+ totals: 30 Oct 2012 - 04 Jul 2015 05 Jul 2015 onwards RR Avg BPB RR Avg BPB O 1-10 5.36 72.11 7.92 5.95 71.24 6.94 O 11-40 6.12 68.02 9.62 6.23 71.75 9.77 O 41-50 10.01 35.13 4.66 9.45 31.06 5.64 (Note: BPB refers to ball per boundary) We can see that the average powerplay score went from 54 runs to 60 runs, when teams score 300. Cool, on average we probably bat slower than that. However, in the bulk of the innings, overs 11-40, we are usually #1 or #2 to the Aussies in RR. Our lads take singles like no other team. That is where the bulk of the runs are scored. Also the final 10 overs are where batsmen are expected to go crazy. Even in the modern game. 9.45 RR in the last 10 overs vs 5.95 in the 1st 10 implies what I said, we need to focus on bring our RR up in the last 10. We can see that teams still score at a higher RR in both the middle and death overs, when compared to the 1st 10 overs. 2) Team-wise distribution of 300+ totals: 30 Oct 2012 - 04 Jul 2015 05 Jul 2015 onwards 300+ scores Inngs Percentage 300+ scores Inngs Percentage Aus 19 53 35.85% 11 39 28.21% Ban 5 42 11.90% 0 15 0.00% Eng 11 62 17.74% 13 30 43.33% Ind 16 73 21.92% 7 24 29.17% NZ 12 60 20.00% 3 27 11.11% Pak 7 66 10.61% 6 28 21.43% SA 16 61 26.23% 12 34 35.29% SL 13 79 16.46% 6 33 18.18% WI 7 54 12.96% 1 17 5.88% Zim 2 39 5.13% 1 33 3.03% We are 3rd in the world since July 2015 in terms of how many of our innings end up in us scoring over 300 runs. Our share of innings over 300 has also increased from 22 percent to 29 percent of our innings being 300 scores. 3) Contribution of each batsman in India's 300+ totals: When we do score 300+ scores, our runs tend to come from 3 batsmen, in order: 1) Rohit, 2) Kohli, 3) Dhawan. Finally http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=win_loss_ratio;spanmin1=05+Jul+2015;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team 4) WL Record Overall figures Team Span Mat Won Lost Tied NR W/L Ave RPO Inns HS LS England 2015-2017 42 27 13 1 1 2.076 40.41 6.06 42 444 138 Hong Kong 2015-2017 10 6 3 0 1 2.000 30.62 5.03 10 298 174 India 2015-2017 37 23 13 0 1 1.769 45.95 5.74 37 381 158 South Africa 2015-2017 44 27 16 0 1 1.687 39.51 5.76 44 438 162 Australia 2015-2017 45 25 17 0 3 1.470 36.55 5.80 44 378 142 Afghanistan 2015-2017 32 17 13 0 2 1.307 25.29 4.70 31 338 58 New Zealand 2015-2017 41 22 17 0 2 1.294 33.73 5.57 41 344 79 Bangladesh 2015-2017 26 12 11 0 3 1.090 32.31 5.31 25 324 160 Pakistan 2015-2017 36 18 18 0 0 1.000 37.24 5.58 36 338 164 Scotland 2016-2017 11 4 5 0 2 0.800 27.54 5.05 10 327 132 Sri Lanka 2015-2017 49 16 28 1 4 0.571 31.29 5.40 47 377 117 U.A.E. 2015-2017 11 4 7 0 0 0.571 24.43 4.69 11 292 146 Zimbabwe 2015-2017 45 15 28 1 1 0.535 23.66 4.62 45 322 54 P.N.G. 2016-2017 6 2 4 0 0 0.500 21.78 4.48 6 244 148 Ireland 2015-2017 26 7 18 0 1 0.388 24.55 4.88 25 304 82 West Indies 2015-2017 31 7 21 1 2 0.333 24.33 4.83 29 329 116 We're 2nd in W-L ratio to England since July 2015, but our runs per wicket comes out on top at 45 while England's is 40. Our runs per over (RPO) is basically the same as SA and Australia. England is way ahead of everyone at 6 RPO. All this to me implies that we don't have a problem with Rohit as opener. When a batsman is the top contributor to your 300 plus scores, he is not the problem. It's the lower-middle and lower order that needs to improve to give us those extra 30-40 runs. We can't have players like Rahane and Yuvraj down the order in the last 10 overs, when we need to hit the gas. It's the last 10 overs where we lose the plot, even when our top 3 set us up, IMO. Kerberos, Pollack, CG and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment
Pollack Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 13 hours ago, Vilander said: Thread owned by hitman. This is odi and he is boss in it. Nobody thought he wouldn't against SL. When was the last time he owned AUS, NZ, SA, ENG? He even faltered against 'nothing special' Amir (in his own view). Link to comment
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