Bhuvi as 3rd seamer in SA Tests

[Vijy]

On 10/3/2017 at 8:48 AM, sandeep said:

It is very likely that Shami may not be able to stay 100% fit for all the games - I think Bumrah should be his replacement instead of Ishant in that scenario.   But Bumrah has to make it to the test squad for that to happen.    Somehow, I get the feeling that the Indian team has decided to preserve him for white-ball cricket.  Given that he's so good in that format, and his unusual action, they might be thinking that the excess workload of test match bowling might burn him out.   

Malinga was quite effective (albeit not as good as ODIs) in Tests. Would be nice to see Bumrah get a few tests to see how he does.

[ShebbySB]

I reckon tracks gonna me spicier this time around and I'm gonna pick BK over Ishant as the 3rd seamer.

Adds a lot of value to the team on bowling friendly tracks.He gives control,swing and long spells plus bats

decently too.His long spells are perfectly suited for the main 2 strike bowlers in Shami and Umesh who can

be used in shorter bursts.Fourth seamer should be Hardik and lone spinner in Ashwin over anyone for his

allround abilities over any other spinners.

Rahul,Vijay,Pujara,Kohli (C),Rahane,Saha (Wk),Hardik,Ashwin,BK,Shami,Umesh.This team can beat SA in SA

if we play to our potential.

Edited October 6, 2017 by ShebbySB

[Vijy]

34 minutes ago, ShebbySB said:

I reckon tracks gonna me spicier this time around and I'm gonna pick BK over Ishant as the 3rd seamer.

Adds a lot of value to the team on bowling friendly tracks.He gives control,swing and long spells plus bats

decently too.His long spells are perfectly suited for the main 2 strike bowlers in Shami and Umesh who can

be used in shorter bursts.Fourth seamer should be Hardik and lone spinner in Ashwin over anyone for his

allround abilities over any other spinners.

Rahul,Vijay,Pujara,Kohli (C),Rahane,Saha (Wk),Hardik,Ashwin,BK,Shami,Umesh.This team can beat SA in SA

if we play to our potential.

this is prob the best possible team we could go with. however, much depends on vijay's form

[cowboysfan]

Ishant?? are you guys kidding me? he was getting spanked by 17 year old kids .

[ShebbySB]

11 hours ago, Vijy said:

this is prob the best possible team we could go with. however, much depends on vijay's form

More than his form I'm concerned over his fitness.We need fit Vijay and Rahul combo else we'll in trouble.

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, ShebbySB said:

More than his form I'm concerned over his fitness.We need fit Vijay and Rahul combo else we'll in trouble.

yes, both his form and fitness.

[Pollack]

On 07/10/2017 at 4:50 AM, cowboysfan said:

Ishant?? are you guys kidding me? he was getting spanked by 17 year old kids .

The love for Ishant never ceases here.

[Vk1]

Bhuvi is probably an automatic pick along with Shami. I'm expecting our fast bowlers to do really well because they are a lot more experienced now and Pandya as a fourth seamer gives the kind of balance that we never had in Indian crickets history. ( Kapil was more of a front line seamer? ). I mean Kallis kind of luxury that proteas had for so long. Main seamers would get ample rest after their spells , even Ashwin can bowl attacking lines not just being typecasted to the role of defensive spinner in overseas like bhajji or Kumble and wait for 5th day. Also we are going to see a not so strong as before lower middle-order and tail from proteas  so it should be interesting

[prudent_kreeda]

On 8/25/2017 at 3:35 PM, Forever Indian said:

Make no mistake guys, we are not getting any flat decks in SA!

 

The type of spitting cobras we doled out to them when they toured us, they will return the favour. They will also want to keep Philander in play throughout so there will be swinging conditions. Bhuvi will therefore be a must on that tour. The only tour outside subcontinent where Bhuvi may not get much from surface is Australia, everywhere else Bhuvi is a must!

   If they dish out green tops , so be it . 

   GO with Shammi , Bhuvi , Bhumra & Hardik

[Muloghonto]

On 8/28/2017 at 12:17 PM, express bowling said:

 

We defeated Australia on a seaming,  bouncy and fast track in Dharamsala in 2017.   We defeated NZ on an up and down green, seaming track in Kolkata in 2016.   Our fast bowlers actually out-bowled their seamers in those tests.   Shami and Bhuvi in Kolkata and Umesh and Bhuvi in Dharamsala...... so, you are right.

 

The 3  biggest issues that existed with Indian fast bowlers earlier

 

--  We did not have a fast bowling culture which leads to competition, hard work, wanting to be good pacers, wanting to bowl fast and bowling with effort, learning from peers etc.  ...... we have it nowadays.

--  We did not have a group of pacers with experience and pace,   bowling as a group ( it was either too many rookies or too many medium pacers )  ..... we have it now.

-- We did not have the self-belief to bowl quick for multiple years ...... we have it now.

 

There is a lot to look forward to.

 

 

 

So does that mean its gonna be one of:

Ashwin-Saha-Pandya-Bhuvi-Shami-Umesh or you think our bottom six is gonna be Ashwin-Saha-Jadeja-Pandya/Bhuvi-Shami-Umesh ?

 

We can't exactly ignore the traditional weakness against spin rearing its head again for RSA, especially with ABDV out of the picture, HA in the decline and rest being facking clueless against spin...

 

interesting conundrums.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

 

So does that mean its gonna be one of:

Ashwin-Saha-Pandya-Bhuvi-Shami-Umesh or you think our bottom six is gonna be Ashwin-Saha-Jadeja-Pandya/Bhuvi-Shami-Umesh ?

 

We can't exactly ignore the traditional weakness against spin rearing its head again for RSA, especially with ABDV out of the picture, HA in the decline and rest being facking clueless against spin...

 

interesting conundrums.

They are clueless only when ball turns. Not if they prepare green tops

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

 

So does that mean its gonna be one of:

Ashwin-Saha-Pandya-Bhuvi-Shami-Umesh or you think our bottom six is gonna be Ashwin-Saha-Jadeja-Pandya/Bhuvi-Shami-Umesh ?

 

We can't exactly ignore the traditional weakness against spin rearing its head again for RSA, especially with ABDV out of the picture, HA in the decline and rest being facking clueless against spin...

 

interesting conundrums.

 

Would depend on the pitch

 

We will probably see 4 + 1 on green tracks  and 3+ 2 on flat surfaces

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

So does that mean its gonna be one of:

Ashwin-Saha-Pandya-Bhuvi-Shami-Umesh or you think our bottom six is gonna be Ashwin-Saha-Jadeja-Pandya/Bhuvi-Shami-Umesh ?

 

We can't exactly ignore the traditional weakness against spin rearing its head again for RSA, especially with ABDV out of the picture, HA in the decline and rest being facking clueless against spin...

 

interesting conundrums.

That is the key question for India in terms of XI selection for the SA series.   Assuming Shami stays fully fit.  

 

IMHO, Bhuvi is undroppable for this series - and I know I'm not totally unbiased.  But playing Pandya as a 3rd seamer in test cricket is a bit of a stretch at this point.  He has not demonstrated the physical capacity to bowl 20 overs in a day of cricket, and do it more than once within 5 days.   Pandya has a bit of work to do, and some time to go before he can be anything more than a part-time or 5th bowling option, especially in test cricket, at this point of time.  

 

So according to me, Bhuvi, Yadav, Shami are locks at 9, 10 and 11.   The question boils down to whether we play the best 2 spinners in the world or we pick one of them and punt on Pandya.  And if we do the latter, which one do we go with - Ash provides the better batting ahead of Jaddu, while Jaddu brings his electric fielding and better ability to provide 'control' and quick overs regardless of surface.  

 

I would be inclined to look at 4 - 1 as the default, unless its an aussie style road.   And Ash is the front-runner for the lone spinner spot, given his quality batting, and unambiguously yards better against pace bowling.  

[express bowling]

55 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

So according to me, Bhuvi, Yadav, Shami are locks at 9, 10 and 11.   The question boils down to whether we play the best 2 spinners in the world or we pick one of them and punt on Pandya. 

 

I  feel Shami and Pandya are the only 2 locks if fit.... and maybe Ashwin as a batter

 

Seaming track - Shami,   Umesh,   Bhuvi,   Pandya,   Ashwin

 

Flatter track - Shami,   Umesh / Bhuvi,   Pandya,   Ashwin,   Kuldeep / Jadeja

 

Pandya will play for his attacking batting

Edited October 8, 2017 by express bowling

[sandeep]

25 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I  feel Shami and Pandya are the only 2 locks if fit.... and maybe Ashwin as a batter

 

Seaming track - Shami,   Umesh,   Bhuvi,   Pandya,   Ashwin

 

Flatter track - Shami,   Umesh / Bhuvi,   Pandya,   Ashwin,   Kuldeep / Jadeja

 

Pandya will play for his attacking batting

Yeah.  It makes too much sense not to start the series with Ash and Pandya as the 4th and 5th bowling options.  A batting lineup that has Ash, Pandya, Saha, Bhuvi at 6,7,8 and 9 will give us tremendous depth without weakening the bowling too much.  A bit of Ajit Doval-esque offensive defense.  

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Yeah.  It makes too much sense not to start the series with Ash and Pandya as the 4th and 5th bowling options.  A batting lineup that has Ash, Pandya, Saha, Bhuvi at 6,7,8 and 9 will give us tremendous depth without weakening the bowling too much.  A bit of Ajit Doval-esque offensive defense.  

 

The biggest challenge for me is , how to get in Kuldeep without weakening the batting.

 

It is rather obvious that the management would want batting ability till 8 .... preferably till 9 .... while playing 5 bowlers .... atleast 3 of them top wicket-taking options for the existing playing condition.

Edited October 8, 2017 by express bowling

[Pollack]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

That is the key question for India in terms of XI selection for the SA series.   Assuming Shami stays fully fit.  

 

IMHO, Bhuvi is undroppable for this series - and I know I'm not totally unbiased.  But playing Pandya as a 3rd seamer in test cricket is a bit of a stretch at this point.  He has not demonstrated the physical capacity to bowl 20 overs in a day of cricket, and do it more than once within 5 days.   Pandya has a bit of work to do, and some time to go before he can be anything more than a part-time or 5th bowling option, especially in test cricket, at this point of time.  

 

So according to me, Bhuvi, Yadav, Shami are locks at 9, 10 and 11.   The question boils down to whether we play the best 2 spinners in the world or we pick one of them and punt on Pandya.  And if we do the latter, which one do we go with - Ash provides the better batting ahead of Jaddu, while Jaddu brings his electric fielding and better ability to provide 'control' and quick overs regardless of surface.  

 

I would be inclined to look at 4 - 1 as the default, unless its an aussie style road.   And Ash is the front-runner for the lone spinner spot, given his quality batting, and unambiguously yards better against pace bowling.  

 

Pandya, Ashwin, Jadeja are fixed. They are playing surely.

If Shami and Umesh are fit they would play. If any of them injured or not available bhuvi will sneak in. There is some (say 5%)chance of Kohli preferring bhuvi over Shami though. 

 

Stating what will happen most likely rather than what I want since I would like to sneak in Kuldeep in place of Jadeja even if Jadeja is no 1 test bowler. Ashwin is safe due to his all-round abilities.

[sandeep]

31 minutes ago, Pollack said:

 

Pandya, Ashwin, Jadeja are fixed. They are playing surely.

If Shami and Umesh are fit they would play. If any of them injured or not available bhuvi will sneak in. There is some (say 5%)chance of Kohli preferring bhuvi over Shami though. 

 

Stating what will happen most likely rather than what I want since I would like to sneak in Kuldeep in place of Jadeja even if Jadeja is no 1 test bowler. Ashwin is safe due to his all-round abilities.

Your claim that we start the series with 2 spinners in the XI as default is questionable.  Especially since SA are guaranteed to roll out a track that nullifies spin for a minimum of 4 out of 5 days.  Like they did against Lanka, and even lowly Bangladesh.  

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Yeah.  It makes too much sense not to start the series with Ash and Pandya as the 4th and 5th bowling options.  A batting lineup that has Ash, Pandya, Saha, Bhuvi at 6,7,8 and 9 will give us tremendous depth without weakening the bowling too much.  A bit of Ajit Doval-esque offensive defense.  

that would be good. if we want to strengthen bowling one can drop ashwin (take kuldeep) and move everyone a spot up. kuldeep is quite decent at 9.

[sandeep]

14 minutes ago, Vijy said:

that would be good. if we want to strengthen bowling one can drop ashwin (take kuldeep) and move everyone a spot up. kuldeep is quite decent at 9.

I wouldn't go the Kuldeep route to start with, I like having Ash in there for his batting.  Historically we've been vulnerable with the bat in SA, especially in the 1st match of series.   I hope M00Li is fit and in form by January.