Holding: Kohli not great until he scores runs in England

[sarcastic]

3 hours ago, Turbanator said:

Sure about that?

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax2=4;batting_positionval2=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;host=1;orderby=batting_average;orderbyad=reverse;qualmin1=6;qualval1=innings;template=results;type=batting;view=series

This is probably a better indicator. Just set the min innings to 10 and here we go. @Gollum made such an accurate observation even by random guessing. 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=4;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;host=1;orderby=batting_average;orderbyad=reverse;qualmin1=10;qualval1=innings;template=results;type=batting;view=series

[MechEng]

But honestly I believe we have become too generous in associating 'great' term with cricketers, there was a time when a player was not judged to be a great until he played 15 years of cricket or at least 100 test matches.

[vvvslaxman]

Lot of useless batsmen have great stats in England. I under top batsmen should score everywhere. But holding sounds like England is one of the most difficult to score runs.

[Gollum]

7 minutes ago, sarcastic said:

This is probably a better indicator. Just set the min innings to 10 and here we go. @Gollum made such an accurate observation even by random guessing. 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=4;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;host=1;orderby=batting_average;orderbyad=reverse;qualmin1=10;qualval1=innings;template=results;type=batting;view=series

Thank you , reinforces my point.

[mishra]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

Lot of useless batsmen have great stats in England. I under top batsmen should score everywhere. But holding sounds like England is one of the most difficult to score runs for a Indian.

However , Our pacers will force England to give us a pitch similar to what they presented to Pakistan. That will do

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, mishra said:

However , Our pacers will force England to give us a pitch similar to what they presented to Pakistan. That will do

Not true. Ganguly , Azharuddin all scored runs there. Agarkar, Kumble, Mishra all of their highest scores were registered there. Even on the same tour where Kohli failed, Bhuvi got 3 fifties in a row.  

[mishra]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

Not true. Ganguly , Azharuddin all scored runs there. Agarkar, Kumble, Mishra all of their highest scores were registered there. Even on the same tour where Kohli failed, Bhuvi got 3 fifties in a row.  

I am not going into stats but on pure experience basis, some time, a batsman may not be good enough to nick a swinging ball.

 

Remember Sachin days, the ball which would have beaten best batsmen in world, That midget used to touch and get out behind the stumps

[vvvslaxman]

24 minutes ago, mishra said:

I am not going into stats but on pure experience basis, some time, a batsman may not be good enough to nick a swinging ball.

 

Remember Sachin days, the ball which would have beaten best batsmen in world, That midget used to touch and get out behind the stumps

Headingley is one place where occasionally you would have such difficult. Most of the other pitches like Lords, Oval are high scoring grounds. 

[putrevus]

Kohli not scoring runs in England is an aberration and Holding is sounding as if England is 1980s WI and Any good batsman of that Era had to play well against them to be called great.

 

Kohli has scored runs in SA against a better bowling attacks.He has won a world cup and CT , I have no Idea what the heck he need to do more.Yes he can have better world cups and better test series in England.He will do well there don't know if team will do well .Why are we writing his obituary now he has still lot of career left.

[AmreekanDesi]

Bringing up Ponting's India record is frankly ignorant and a bit of a coping mechanism here to justify Kohli's atrocious England record

 

Ponting overall didn't do well in India but he has had a couple of tours where he has done okay. After all he has 5-6 fifties and a century in India.

 

Kohli hadn't crossed a 50 even. Obviously if he has one great tour that answers questions but till then this record will haunt him. He doesn't need a 50 overall average in England. He just needs one bumper tour 

[putrevus]

Why are people talking as if Kohli has toured million times to England and failed, yes he failed in one tour very miserably but it is just one tour. Many batsmen in past had bad tours that did not make them into bad players.

 

When you fail on your first tour these questions will be asked and rightly so , Kohli has work to do in England.

[mishra]

52 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Headingley is one place where occasionally you would have such difficult. Most of the other pitches like Lords, Oval are high scoring grounds. 

I think Lords/London based grounds are intentionally effed up  to create a phatta as a 5 day test keeps media interested. Also there is enough money to keep the grounds full among inhabitants. Weather of london is relatively settled and warmer too.

 

However, everywhere else, story is different. Grass and rain is constant. So

its upto England to give us what wicket they want to give. Even in London area, weather can occasionally make any visiting team crap

[Khota]

4 hours ago, mishra said:

no

Is Sampras any good?

[mishra]

47 minutes ago, Khota said:

Is Sampras any good?

Exception cant be rule

[express bowling]

15 minutes ago, mishra said:

Exception cant be rule

 

McEnroe, no French , Australian

 

Connors  no French 

 

Borg no Australian , US

 

Lendl  no  Wimbledon

 

All considered as greats 

[Gollum]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

McEnroe, no French , Australian

 

Connors  no French 

 

Borg no Australian , US

 

Lendl  no  Wimbledon

 

All considered as greats 

Off topic but AO was never taken seriously by tennis stars till the 90s, so they can be excused. Look at the participation of AO in the 70s and 80s if you don't believe me. AO was played on grass till late 80s, USO was played on grass till mid 70s, only RG was always on clay.

 

Borg didn't win USO but he reached 4 finals each time losing to ATGs. His channel slam for 5 consecutive years alone puts him in the GOAT discussion even though he retired by the age of 25. 

 

McEnroe and Connors didn't disgrace themselves in RG, they did OK. Lendl made 2 SW19 F. 

 

After surface homogenization it has become very easy to win all 4, post 2001 SW19 plays like clay in the latter stages, USO surface is very slow (almost blue clay) and from 2008 to 2015 AO was plexicushion (very very slow). Earlier you needed to make great adjustments to win across surfaces and IMO only Agassi did the career grand slam when it was really tough. 

 

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

Is Sampras any good?

During Sampras' time variance from USO/AO/SW19 to RG was much much greater than what we have in cricket today. It was practically unheard of to have all court dominance in the 90s. But in cricket you have a few players who do well across conditions. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

apne yaha gavaskar aur waha holding do no sathiyaa gaye hai 

[mishra]

53 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

McEnroe, no French , Australian

 

Connors  no French 

 

Borg no Australian , US

 

Lendl  no  Wimbledon

 

All considered as greats 

Thanks, May be bar for greatness in tennis isnt like for like to test cricket.

In cricket, a batsman needs to prove on turning, bouncy and overcast swinging condition. 2/3 condition isnt good enough. Flat track and century count means nothing. 

I had so much respect for smith, but he was made to look complete rokie and tore into pieces by Anderson and co in that swingin Adelaide test match. If he fails in next Ashes, rightly questions will be asked. Simple as that. We can not lower bar for greatness because none of t20 hacks can deal with swing or likes of Swann (forget Murali).

Edited January 22, 2018 by mishra

[maniac]

Pakistan team did well in England last time and credit where due they were really prepared for that series....when even PCB gets it right over you than you have a massive problem.

 

Hooefully we will learn from our mistakes from this tour.

 

I expect Kohli to do real well this England series.