Did India make a mistake of not playing Kuldeep in tests

[mishra]

Have supported KD being given opoortunity over Ashwin on overseas trip. Dont buy idea that Ashwins batting skills if gone will mean disaster to batting lineup. 

[coffee_rules]

No, Ashwin's batting is very much needed, he contributes a lot in the lower order. With Pandya and Saha mucking with the bat, he and Bhuvi's batting lends respectability to the scores. Plus, he was dropped a lot, can't blame him totally for not taking wickets.

[putrevus]

We have to stop selecting bowlers because they can bat or batsmen because they can bowl.Unless they are good at their main skill there is no point in their selection especially in tests.

[vvvslaxman]

52 minutes ago, putrevus said:

We have to stop selecting bowlers because they can bat or batsmen because they can bowl.Unless they are good at their main skill there is no point in their selection especially in tests.

Blame the top order who can't bowl to save their life. Sehwag/Tendulkar used to provide that option. Now 4 bowlers will have burn out. Besides Ashwin is not some junk bowler. One of the most over exposed Test bowler thanks to IPL. Despite that he is still able to pose problems to batsmen on even a slightly helpful surface. When you are looking for a bowler like kuldeep on less helpful surfaces you are essentially losing a batsman. Imagine Kuldeep on a seaming track where he may not eve bowl that many overs. If we have to question anyone's place that would be Pandya's whose bowling is useless both on seaming pitches and spin pitches. Ashwin already more than he was expected to do both with ball and bat averaging 22 with bat 30 with ball (this is despite dropping so many catchecs of his bowling). In comparison . These pitches were not really suitable for spinners. Top 8 wicket takers of this series were seamers. Out of 120 wickets 106 wickets were taken by seamers 6 run outs 7  by Ashwin 1 by Maharaja.  High time we realize our batting sucked balls at crucial moments. Run outs,  reckless shots. I can understand issue with shot selection without practice. But run outs? No excuse there.

[Khota]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

We have to stop selecting bowlers because they can bat or batsmen because they can bowl.Unless they are good at their main skill there is no point in their selection especially in tests.

Exactly. When people in ICF will understand that there would be real progress.

[express bowling]

9 hours ago, mishra said:

Have supported KD being given opoortunity over Ashwin on overseas trip. Dont buy idea that Ashwins batting skills if gone will mean disaster to batting lineup. 

 

What would your playing 11 be in that case  ?

 

Just remember that most teams prefer decent batters at 7 and 8 these days.

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

agreed..kuldeep aur chahal ne to ashwin aur jaddu ki khaat khadi kar di.....pehle odi ke jagah le li ab test se bhi bhaga denge.

Some here on ICF are just plain bored people ......jab dekho nikal do kuch naya lao

 

Ashwin jadeja ko nikal do (unhone ne kya kiya hai jo nikal do)

after few games kuldeep chahal ko nikal do kahenge agar rahul chahar ne IPL men acha kar diya 

 

kabhi bhuvi ko nikal do wo purana lagne lag gaya 

 

Mazak ho raha hai kya 

[mishra]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

What would your playing 11 be in that case  ?

 

Just remember that most teams prefer decent batters at 7 and 8 these days.

Pool of 4+ pacers: Bhuvi, Shami, Umesh,Bhumrah (Dont mind adding a new comer like Saini and all every year to "share" the work load. "Share" is key word)

Pool of 2+ spinners: Ashwin, KD (Depending upon pitch)

Pool of 2+ Wicket keepers: Saha, Pant (With a view that in long run Pant or someone else will become man with gloves)

Bats: Rahul, Murali, Chepu,Kohli, Rahane, Pandya. (Keep Looking for another bat, Not from limited overs league Dhawans and Sharmas but from another league)

 

Let all of the above player know that there is no "Chop and Change", Instead they are all part of team and we will share the workload. India plays about 1.5 times matches then another team. Squad deserves rests in easy games.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by mishra

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, mishra said:

Pool of 4+ pacers: Bhuvi, Shami, Umesh,Bhumrah (Dont mind adding a new comer like Saini and all every year to "share" the work load. "Share" is key word)

Pool of 2+ spinners: Ashwin, KD (Depending upon pitch)

Pool of 2+ Wicket keepers: Saha, Pant (With a view that in long run Pant or someone else will become man with gloves)

Bats: Rahul, Murali, Chepu,Kohli, Rahane, Pandya. (Keep Looking for another bat, Not from limited overs league Dhawans and Sharmas but from another league)

 

Let all of the above player know that there is no "Chop and Change", Instead they are all part of team and we will share the workload. India plays about 1.5 times matches then another team. Squad deserves rests in easy games.

 

 

 

Ok

 

But, what will be your playing 11 in test matches in England, so that Kuldeep is in the team but the batting depth is not compromised  ?

[mishra]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Ok

 

But, what will be your playing 11 in test matches in England, so that Kuldeep is in the team but the batting depth is not compromised  ?

Offcourse replacing Asjhwin with KD, like for like, you will get poorer batting. But on a pitch where you expect that there is no turn (like in Lords, Windies, Australian and Some of African wickets of past series and not 2018 one) i.e on pitches where opposition scores 500, we must play KD with 3-4 pacers.

Problem is, Our pacers were toothless. Its not the same case anymore. After recently concluded series, I doubt that we will get Green tracks.

 

A order could be:

 

Rahul, Murali, Chepu,Kohli, Rahane, Pandya ,Saha, Bhuvi,KD and pacers from rest

[R.D forever]

Another knee jerk reaction thread There is a reason why wrist spinners don't work in test matches. Controlling wrist spin is very difficult and test match is all about building pressure. So unless u are someone exceptional like warne who can land 6 balls in the same area, u are bound to go for runs.

 

Even in ODIs kuldeep is still bowling a full toss or a long hop every over. In ODI these long hops would end up getting wickets but in tests all it does is release pressure. Kuldeep can be a good attacking option as a second or third spinner but cannot see him as someone who can bowl 35 overs with economy of 2 when batsmen are patient

[express bowling]

17 minutes ago, mishra said:

 

Rahul, Murali, Chepu,Kohli, Rahane, Pandya ,Saha, Bhuvi,KD and pacers from rest

 

If Pandya can bat at No.6, that would solve many problems.  Let's see.

 

Ashwin in place of Pandya on flatter tracks, could be the other combination.

[putrevus]

Blame the top order who can't bowl to save their life. Sehwag/Tendulkar used to provide that option. Now 4 bowlers will have burn out. Besides Ashwin is not some junk bowler. One of the most over exposed Test bowler thanks to IPL. Despite that he is still able to pose problems to batsmen on even a slightly helpful surface. When you are looking for a bowler like kuldeep on less helpful surfaces you are essentially losing a batsman. Imagine Kuldeep on a seaming track where he may not eve bowl that many overs. If we have to question anyone's place that would be Pandya's whose bowling is useless both on seaming pitches and spin pitches. Ashwin already more than he was expected to do both with ball and bat averaging 22 with bat 30 with ball (this is despite dropping so many catchecs of his bowling). In comparison . These pitches were not really suitable for spinners. Top 8 wicket takers of this series were seamers. Out of 120 wickets 106 wickets were taken by seamers 6 run outs 7  by Ashwin 1 by Maharaja.  High time we realize our batting sucked balls at crucial moments. Run outs,  reckless shots. I can understand issue with shot selection without practice. But run outs? No excuse there.

That is the point, Kuldeep might have spun a web and won the game especially in second innings.

There is reason why Ashwin himself is trying to reinvent himself by bowling leg spin.

I am not blaming him for the loss but blaming him for his inability to win. Chasing 275 vs chasing 175 might have made the difference.

Unless you try you won’t know if Kuldeep is capable of winning matches as we know Ashwin cannot be that man. If India has to win overseas they have to be bold and take chances.


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[vvvslaxman]

57 minutes ago, putrevus said:

That is the point, Kuldeep might have spun a web and won the game especially in second innings.

There is reason why Ashwin himself is trying to reinvent himself by bowling leg spin.

I am not blaming him for the loss but blaming him for his inability to win. Chasing 275 vs chasing 175 might have made the difference.

Unless you try you won’t know if Kuldeep is capable of winning matches as we know Ashwin cannot be that man. If India has to win overseas they have to be bold and take chances.


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That is mere conjecture. You don't see such slow pitches in India. It was an up and down pitch. But still a  slow pitch. Bowlers who bowl straight especially seamer would have been rewarded. How many wickets were taken by South African spinners in that test? Leg spin is effective on a true wicket with a bit of bounce. If you really buckle down and decide to see off Kuldeep you think they could not have done? On that pitch you could have played everything of the backfoot. Besides Ashwin created several chances, found edges several times. Bit of luck he would have had more wickets. I am all for a wristie overseas. But that particular test i doubt anyone could have created an impact. Probably Umesh yadav.

[Vilander]

Although Ash and Jad are insurmountable at home atm, there is no harm in trying Kuldeep in overseas tests, if he is too loose or is not able to sustain pressure go back to Ashwin, but it will be good to try. But in England pitches dont have great bounce so it might still be Ash, all they can do is carry Kuldeep as third spinner and not play him or play him in practice games. He will be an option in bouncy Aussie pitches.

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

That is mere conjecture. You don't see such slow pitches in India. It was an up and down pitch. But still a  slow pitch. Bowlers who bowl straight especially seamer would have been rewarded. How many wickets were taken by South African spinners in that test? Leg spin is effective on a true wicket with a bit of bounce. If you really buckle down and decide to see off Kuldeep you think they could not have done? On that pitch you could have played everything of the backfoot. Besides Ashwin created several chances, found edges several times. Bit of luck he would have had more wickets. I am all for a wristie overseas. But that particular test i doubt anyone could have created an impact. Probably Umesh yadav.

Question  they are unable to read him in odis, if that happened in a test series he would have won that test for India.It is mere speculation on my part based on his odi performances.

 

Ashwin is slowly but surely floating on thin ice, selectors after CT debacle realized both Ashwin and Jadeja are simply not capable of getting wickets in middle overs and sat them out first and then dropped them. No way that putrid pakistan team should have been allowed to score 300 plus.

 

Same thing in tests too unless one of these wrist spinners is given a go for a overseries test series we won't know what they are capable off.

Edited February 6, 2018 by putrevus

[mishra]

8 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

If Pandya can bat at No.6, that would solve many problems.  Let's see.

 

Ashwin in place of Pandya on flatter tracks, could be the other combination.

Yes, i trully believe Pandya and whoever can handle MSD's glove along with KD be key to our sucess in test arena.

I have a feeling that Chahal and not KD will be selected as there are so many PR articles appearing for Chahal in media

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, mishra said:

Yes, i trully believe Pandya and whoever can handle MSD's glove along with KD be key to our sucess in test arena.

I have a feeling that Chahal and not KD will be selected as there are so many PR articles appearing for Chahal in media

Everyone knows Kuldeep is bigger spinner of the ball than Chahal.There is reason why he has already made his test debut.he is better batsman than Chahal too.

[mishra]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Everyone knows Kuldeep is bigger spinner of the ball than Chahal.There is reason why he has already made his test debut.he is better batsman than Chahal too.

Everyone also knows Rahul is better bat than Dhawan or Iahant is crap compared to any ither bowler. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by mishra