Bhuvi in ODIs vs Ishant in Tests

[mishra]

16 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

The point of the thread being persisting with a bowler despite having bad numbers. I think bowlers have a utility value and that proves their selection depite not having numbers to prove. If Ishant gets all the abuses for Test selection, Bhuvi should get the same in ODIs. He is expensive when he is not picking wickets on a helpful pitch. Bhuvi has good batting unlike Ishant in tests.

Bhuvi is new ball bowler. He had less pace, So in mid or end of inning in  odi games (specially in past), he used to get tonked.

 

Bhuvi has improved, Not cos of selection, But cos of will, dedication, determination and coaching

[Vk1]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

yes, he did not go for runs, but other bowlers did. you cant escape.  one bowler escape but if you dont pick wickets, others will be taken for runs.  Even Pandya did relatively well in that game, but as they failed to pick wickets, 3 other bowlers well for runs

 

Picking wickets in power play 1 is always difficult on these flat pitches. To make numbers look good bowlers can always bowl good length or full length balls and hope for catches in the deep in their final spell. Bhuvi to his credit seems to give less runs even in the end overs by bowling non glamorous lines outside off stump which are mostly taken for 1s and twos. We should contrast bhuvi with say Umesh Yadav who has good wickets per match ratio but hardly contributed for any victory.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Vk1

[NameGoesHere]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

you take wickets, you stop runs. you dont take wickets, you or other bowlers will eventually go for runs.  

I appreciate your point as valid, but in a game as strategic as cricket, it's not the only valid point.  I could for example reverse it- you don't let the batsman score at the death, you choke down the opposition team to a total your batsmen can handle. Or the bowler at the end takes wickets.  Steve Smith was referring to this last year when Bhuvi and Bumrah stopped a rampant Aussie batting attack to a manageable and chaseable total in the Indore ODI.

 

Again, I'm not saying he doesn't need to take wickets.  

[rkt.india]

15 minutes ago, NameGoesHere said:

I appreciate your point as valid, but in a game as strategic as cricket, it's not the only valid point.  I could for example reverse it- you don't let the batsman score at the death, you choke down the opposition team to a total your batsmen can handle. Or the bowler at the end takes wickets.  Steve Smith was referring to this last year when Bhuvi and Bumrah stopped a rampant Aussie batting attack to a manageable and chaseable total in the Indore ODI.

 

Again, I'm not saying he doesn't need to take wickets.  

i am not denying that, Neither i am saying drop BK. i really understand his importance in ODIs. i am just talking about notion that taking wickets is not important in ODIs. ODIs are not just about slog overs. what you do in first 40 overs is far important. death bowling has its place too when defending.

[NameGoesHere]

33 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

...i am just talking about notion that taking wickets is not important in ODIs.

Ok- I agree that taking wickets is the most important thing.

[beetle]

Bhuvi has bowled almost all his overs in powerplay and dealth.That is a super speciality.

+ He gives consistency. 8/10 matches,the captain will get what he asks off him, ten tight overs and some wkts.

Yes....more wkts would be better.....but what he gets to the table is special .

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by beetle

[speedheat]

Average 37, that's 0 wickets per game lol, these stats are misguiding I guess, i think his average has improved post 2015 south Africa series, could well be under 30, just my guess, but any how I will keep him in loi squad coz of that economy rate and ability to hit yorkers, an accurate pacer is must in Lois to keep things tight.

Edited February 6, 2018 by speedheat

[Trichromatic]

3 hours ago, beetle said:

Bhuvi has bowled almost all his overs in powerplay and dealth.That is a super speciality.

+ He gives consistency. 8/10 matches,the captain will get what he asks off him, ten tight overs and some wkts.

Yes....more wkts would be better.....but what he gets to the table is special .

 

It's not that his economy rate is among best. 

 

Most of the regular pacers of all teams have economy in range of 4.6-5.3 range. He is basically mid-level bowler in terms of economy and bottom level in terms of wickets.

[New guy]

4 hours ago, speedheat said:

Average 37, that's 0 wickets per game lol, these stats are misguiding I guess, i think his average has improved post 2015 south Africa series, could well be under 30, just my guess, but any how I will keep him in loi squad coz of that economy rate and ability to hit yorkers, an accurate pacer is must in Lois to keep things tight.

Actually his average from 2016 till date is even worse, 38.3

[speedheat]

5 minutes ago, New guy said:

Actually his average from 2016 till date is even worse, 38.3

Shocking actually, he had good series against Australia though, not a huge fan of stats I will always keep at least one bhuvi type bowler in my team who can swing and seam that ball at brisk pace and fairly accurate, followed by two genuinely quick pacers like shami/bumrah/umesh/saini etc.in Odis and testmatches , t20is I don't really care unadkat type jokers can play that format, so yes i will back bhuvi irrespective of those numbers.

[coffee_rules]

Economic bowlers have very low SR.  Batsman take low risk, play him off and don't give wickets. Doesn't make sense to have Pandya as the third fast bowler and have Bhuvi responsible for striking. We need 2 pacers, 1 allrounder and 2 wristies. 

This is the Econ and SR of Bapu of Maidens - 

Econ 1.67

SR - 104.1!

Edited February 6, 2018 by coffee_rules

[lamellavig]

2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Economic bowlers have very low SR.  Batsman take low risk, play him off and don't give wickets. Doesn't make sense to have Pandya as the third fast bowler and have Bhuvi responsible for striking. We need 2 pacers, 1 allrounder and 2 wristies. 

This is the Econ and SR of Bapu of Maidens - 

Econ 1.67

SR - 104.1!

But what about GD McGrath?

[coffee_rules]

3 hours ago, lamellavig said:

But what about GD McGrath?

I should have said in general. You can't compare all bowlers to a goat.

[SUMO]

 We need someone who has pace and skills with new ball and good slower, yorkers, brains in death overs as well.

Then only we can replace bhuvi.

Only shami comes to my mind but he is injury prone n indispensible in tests.

 

Bhuvi stats might look unimpressive but those who sees him live will know his contribution in crunch situation and in death overs are invaluable for captain.

 

Basically captain is ready to sacrifice new ball and middle overs wickets for the reliability in slog overs. Its a trade off.

[coffee_rules]

Why don't  Ishant in tests get the same concessions as Bhuvi is getting it here from his fans in ODIs? Let me CnP..

 

'Ishant stats might look unimpressive but those who sees him live will know his contribution in crunch situation and in death overs are invaluable for captain.'

[Straight Drive]

83 ODI and 90 wickets certainly needs improvement, if one is specialist bowler.

 

Wickets are key and if specialist bowlers don't take good number of those then it's going to be trouble. I hope he improves in the wickets count in ODI's 

[Vk1]

Again Bhuvi is not doing well in the first spells. I agree a Big Problem for us. 

[LORD_analyst]

lol....again proved right.... zip wickets in first spell for swing king!

[mancalledsting]

Needs to be rested, intensity lacking 

[vivek04]

He is like a philander who is effective when pitch have something. Thats why South africa stick philander to test only. They know the limitations of philander. we gave bhuvi ample opportunities to rove, but he cant. In today's cricket, odi pitches are flat, if you dont have express pace and wicket taking ability then it cost matches to your side.

Edited February 7, 2018 by vivek04
grammer