Poll : Is Sachin the Greatest batsmen to have played the sport?

[Sonix768]

On 2/8/2018 at 6:03 PM, kira said:

Kohli is a great run getter and might ( and it's a very BIG might) surpass tendulkar's achievements but his strokeplay is no where near sachin's.  People call kohli arrogant but he's not arrogant at all, in fact sachin was the arrogant one, sachin's arrogance led to his downfall many times, sachin tried to dominate the best bowlers in the opposition, the way he took the attack to mcgrath in nairobi, the way he took out akhtar in 2003 wc is stuff of legends. Sachin wanted to dominate the best in the opposition, go watch his knock vs australia in 1996 wc where he singlehandedly destroyed mcgrath's bowling figures.

 

Kohli on the other hand is very smart and calculative and has a great temperament, he never  tries to go for the big shots or tries to dominate the best bowler in the opposition, this is one of the biggest reason of kohli's success, kohli reads the game very well and plays out the best bowlers in the opposition without taking too many risks. Kohli's biggest asset is his brain and his attitude. 

 

Both sachin and kohli are legends but when it comes to pure batting brilliance no one comes close to sachin.

These are excellent points. Along with these comments, remember Warne, Olanga, Caddick incidents as well. Sachin might seem like a quiet guy but in his prime he was arrogant in his bat especially if someone opens mouth against him. Much more than Kohli ever was.

 

Also true about trying to dominate the best bowler in the opposition in his peak years. Warne comes to the mind easily. Kohli on the other hand hadn't done anything like that. If anything, he plays safe against them and feeds off the likes of Faulkner, Wahab Riaz etc. He is very smart and his method is very effective which led to his success.

 

We are blessed to have such batsman in subsequent generations.

[rtmohanlal]

On 2/10/2018 at 8:06 PM, putrevus said:

What is Kohli doing in this series is being dominant, many Indian batsmen have been dominant at home but when you are being touted as not just good but greatest you need dominant series like what Kohli is having away from home.

 

Don't give me world cups where you get to feast on Nambias and Kenyas. 2003 for example Sachin faced one great team two times and came up short both times.

Give me one away series either in tests and Odis where Sachin was ultra dominant.Sachin was a very great batsman but I don't rate him the best of all time which is the topic.

the  problem here is that your "basic criteria of being ultra dominant" has no  sense what so ever

But in 1992 world cup( where even  225 runs in 50 overs was enough to  win  matches) in which he batted in middle order , Sachin avg:ed  47.16 @ 84.73 str: rate . And   his 2 best scores in the tournament came against  eventual winner and also  a semifinalist.And his 35(44)  while chasing vs ENG (FINALIST) was very good knock too.

Now  come with another of your demands.

Edited February 11, 2018 by rtmohanlal

[putrevus]

On 2/11/2018 at 5:21 AM, rtmohanlal said:

the  problem here is that your "basic criteria of being ultra dominant" has no  sense what so ever

But in 1992 world cup( where even  225 runs in 50 overs was enough to  win  matches) in which he batted in middle order , Sachin avg:ed  47.16 @ 84.73 str: rate . And   his 2 best scores in the tournament came against  eventual winner and also  a semifinalist.And his 35(44)  while chasing vs ENG (FINALIST) was very good knock too.

Now  come with another of your demands.

We are not just talking about 1992, Sachin played till 2013 when scores of 300 plus were  par.That was just two matches it is not like he took them to finals/semis.

 

Sachin has no excuse for not being dominant  he spanned for two decades and still has never had one dominant away series.

 

When did Sachin had any dominant run like Kohli is having , he is averaging Bradmanesque and is above his peers just like Bradman was last two year, the only year Sachin has comparable was 1998 when he was at his best. But most matches were played in India and Sharjah.

 

Kohli has gone missing in finals/semis of major cups so far but Sachin went missing in most of his away series.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;spanmax1=12+Feb+2018;spanmin1=12+Feb+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

[02/04/11]

Peak Sachin is the greatest of all time bar none

[putrevus]

^^ Peak Kohli trumps Peak Sachin any day in odis as I know peak Kohli will try to wait out good bowlers and take on weak bowlers to get set and will not play ball in air.

[rtmohanlal]

30 minutes ago, putrevus said:

We are not just talking about 1992, Sachin played till 2013 when scores of 300 plus were  par.That was just two matches it is not like he took them to finals/semis.

 

Sachin has no excuse for not being dominant  he spanned for two decades and still has never had one dominant away series.

 

When did Sachin had any dominant run like Kohli is having , he is averaging Bradmanesque and is above his peers just like Bradman was last two year, the only year Sachin has comparable was 1998 when he was at his best. But most matches were played in India and Sharjah.

 

Kohli has gone missing in finals/semis of major cups so far but Sachin went missing in most of his away series.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;spanmax1=12+Feb+2018;spanmin1=12+Feb+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

that is why I am repeating that your criteria of 'being dominant'  do not have any sense.As per your criteria Michael Bevan would never be an   ATG one day player. After all how can a batsman with mere 6 100s be called great????But the reality??? Bevan is one of the TOP 5 ONE DAY batsmen in most of cricket analysts book.And why?? Because Bevan won matches for Australia from the 'bat position' he played in and in the era he played in.Naturally you woudn't expect Bevan to score  34 100s like Kohli because in Bevan's era run scoring was lot more difficult(much lower str:rate) and it is lot more difficult to score 100s from his batting position.

 

It is not sensible to compare Sachin with Kohli  in respective 'away' records because Sachin on his own has several series with brilliant numbers based on the context.And why 'away' series???? Does Sachin scoring in SAF  vs Akram,Waqar & Akhtar be any lesser than that against Langevelt,Nel & Kallis????That's why I maintain that your view point of judging Sachin is not at all sensible.

 

Having said that Kohli's run of scores irrespective of eras is really phenomenal.And if he maintains this and have 1 or 2 great world cups he may eventually surpass Sachin in one dayers but not yet. But that does not diminish Sachin's greatness as an one day player by even a little bit..

[putrevus]

13 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

that is why I am repeating that your criteria of 'being dominant'  do not have any sense.As per your criteria Michael Bevan would never be an   ATG one day player. After all how can a batsman with mere 6 100s be called great????But the reality??? Bevan is one of the TOP 5 ONE DAY batsmen in most of cricket analysts book.And why?? Because Bevan won matches for Australia from the 'bat position' he played in and in the era he played in.Naturally you woudn't expect Bevan to score  34 100s like Kohli because in Bevan's era run scoring was lot more difficult(much lower str:rate) and it is lot more difficult to score 100s from his batting position.

 

It is not sensible to compare Sachin with Kohli  in respective 'away' records because Sachin on his own has several series with brilliant numbers based on the context.And why 'away' series???? Does Sachin scoring in SAF  vs Akram,Waqar & Akhtar be any lesser than that against Langevelt,Nel & Kallis????That's why I maintain that your view point of judging Sachin is not at all sensible.

 

Having said that Kohli's run of scores irrespective of eras is really phenomenal.And if he maintains this and have 1 or 2 great world cups he may eventually surpass Sachin in one dayers but not yet. But that does not diminish Sachin's greatness as an one day player by even a little bit..

Micheal Bevan is middle order batsman who was best in what he did, Sachin was a top order player who went missing in away series where as Bevan was there most of the time.

Sachin scored 98 against aging Akram and Younis who retired immediately and Akthar who are just starting and that is all you got in support for Sachin away.

Why is not sensible to compare Kohli and Sachin, they both are top order batsmen and both careers have over lapped.What is without doubt about  Sachin is ,he never was reliable away from home in odis.Kohli has surpassed Sachin in odis long time back, he does not need to reach any other stats.if he has great world cup and wins world cup it will just cement him as greatest ODI player.

 

What Kohli is doing right is mind boggling his consistency and ability to carry a team on his back has no comparison.Sachin I repeat never ever had this sort of run.

Edited February 12, 2018 by putrevus

[rkt.india]

19 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

that is why I am repeating that your criteria of 'being dominant'  do not have any sense.As per your criteria Michael Bevan would never be an   ATG one day player. After all how can a batsman with mere 6 100s be called great????But the reality??? Bevan is one of the TOP 5 ONE DAY batsmen in most of cricket analysts book.And why?? Because Bevan won matches for Australia from the 'bat position' he played in and in the era he played in.Naturally you woudn't expect Bevan to score  34 100s like Kohli because in Bevan's era run scoring was lot more difficult(much lower str:rate) and it is lot more difficult to score 100s from his batting position.

 

It is not sensible to compare Sachin with Kohli  in respective 'away' records because Sachin on his own has several series with brilliant numbers based on the context.And why 'away' series???? Does Sachin scoring in SAF  vs Akram,Waqar & Akhtar be any lesser than that against Langevelt,Nel & Kallis????That's why I maintain that your view point of judging Sachin is not at all sensible.

 

Having said that Kohli's run of scores irrespective of eras is really phenomenal.And if he maintains this and have 1 or 2 great world cups he may eventually surpass Sachin in one dayers but not yet. But that does not diminish Sachin's greatness as an one day player by even a little bit..

Bevan had an SR as good as Ganguly and Dravid and in the same era, SRT had an SR of 85 plus. We should not say run scoring was difficult in that era. LOI cricket has just reached on another level now due to the T20 effect. Batsmen are more capable of batting at high SR and just are better at it now.

[Trichromatic]

On 11/02/2018 at 1:32 PM, Trichromatic said:

When was the last time Kohli scored 400 runs in an ODI series?

 

He has been playing cricket for 10 years and he is yet to score 400+ runs in any ODI series yet. Any reason why a more dominant batsman doesn't have 400+ runs?

 

Tendulkar did it age of 24, 400+ runs in 5 matches with SR of 100. No Namibia and Kenya to feast on and runs on pitches where teams were struggling to score 200+. 

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/61026.html

 

I remember 2 series where Indian team struggled to score runs (200-250), one was tri-series in Aus with Eng and India and Kohli did nothing in that series and series against Pakistan in 2012.

 

8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Micheal Bevan is middle order batsman who was best in what he did, Sachin was a top order player who went missing in away series where as Bevan was there most of the time.

Sachin scored 98 against aging Akram and Younis who retired immediately and Akthar who are just starting and that is all you got in support for Sachin away.

Why is not sensible to compare Kohli and Sachin, they both are top order batsmen and both careers have over lapped.What is without doubt about  Sachin is ,he never was reliable away from home in odis.Kohli has surpassed Sachin in odis long time back, he does not need to reach any other stats.if he has great world cup and wins world cup it will just cement him as greatest ODI player.

 

What Kohli is doing right is mind boggling his consistency and ability to carry a team on his back has no comparison.Sachin I repeat never ever had this sort of run.

 

[Trichromatic]

8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Bevan had an SR as good as Ganguly and Dravid and in the same era, SRT had an SR of 85 plus. We should not say run scoring was difficult in that era. LOI cricket has just reached on another level now due to the T20 effect. Batsmen are more capable of batting at high SR and just are better at it now.

Batting in first 20-30 overs hasn't changed much. We had batsmen scoring at quick pace in first 15 overs earlier too in 2000s.

 

What has changed significantly is scoring after 25-30 overs. Earlier players were not able to carry the same momentum throughout the innings. 

 

This is not entirely due to modern batsmen being better hitters. Sure they are much more capable of hitting boundaries. But this is also due to old ball which was one of the biggest issue in hitting back then. Then there was reverse swing too in those conditions.

 

It's not that modern batsman are better in these conditions either. Whenever we get such conditions, they score same 200-220 like players of 1990s and 2000s used to do.

 

On modern flat pitches - current batsmen > older generation. If older generaton manages 280 on these pitches, modern generation will manage 330 due to ability to hit big.

 

On slow or difficult to score pitches - current batsman are either same or worse than older generation. They get impatient if ball doesn't come on the bat. Even if there isn't enough to take wickets, if runs don't come quickly they will throw it away.

 

On swinging tracks - All generations are same. They will struggle. Only important factor in those cases is how long will ball swing.

 

On turners - All generations are more or less same. 

 

Last 3 conditions have been eliminated from the game. Now it's competition of whether current batsmen are better FTBs or not and they indeed are.

[Laaloo]

 

[Jimmy Cliff]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Bevan had an SR as good as Ganguly and Dravid and in the same era, SRT had an SR of 85 plus. We should not say run scoring was difficult in that era. LOI cricket has just reached on another level now due to the T20 effect. Batsmen are more capable of batting at high SR and just are better at it now.

But it was?

 

Look at the best ODI bowlers going around in the 90s

 

 

There are at least 8-9 ATG bowlers in this list.

 

Compare it to the best bowlers of this decade

 

 

I mean is there even a comparison. Except for Starc, would any of these guys be considered ODI greats by the time they are finished? Batting in ODIs has just got infinitely easier. Which is why you have folks like Williamson/Guptill having better raw stats than Lara and Rohit Sharma having better raw stats than Ponting.

[putrevus]

Sachin did play across two decades, his career spanned from odis where avg score was 220 to matches where avg score was 300-350 too.

So there is no excuse oh Sachin's era was different.

Sachin was a awesome  and great player but he did struggle against good bowlers in their backyards especially in Australia/NZ/SA/Eng if you take out weaker minnow teams in these countries his stats look even worse.

 

So how can this player be the greatest of all time.

Edited February 12, 2018 by putrevus

[rtmohanlal]

15 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Micheal Bevan is middle order batsman who was best in what he did, Sachin was a top order player who went missing in away series where as Bevan was there most of the time.

Sachin scored 98 against aging Akram and Younis who retired immediately and Akthar who are just starting and that is all you got in support for Sachin away.

Why is not sensible to compare Kohli and Sachin, they both are top order batsmen and both careers have over lapped.What is without doubt about  Sachin is ,he never was reliable away from home in odis.Kohli has surpassed Sachin in odis long time back, he does not need to reach any other stats.if he has great world cup and wins world cup it will just cement him as greatest ODI player.

 

What Kohli is doing right is mind boggling his consistency and ability to carry a team on his back has no comparison.Sachin I repeat never ever had this sort of run.

you believe in your  rigid non  sense.What ever it is put across you  is  not going to change your mind.A person who basically believes that a mere '100'  scored against Nel,Langevelt & Kallis batting first  in a bilateral is more valuable than 98  scored  of just 75 balls chasing a big target in a world cup against arch rivals  and that too against 2 ATG bowlers and a border line ATG is not worthy of even a chat with.And here comes another of your strange claim.Waqar retired  immediately after Sachin's onslaught  and hence what all he did till that point can be neglected as unworthy of being an ATG bowler .Isn't it???????????Come onnn.... get a life maan. And what not, you have this habit of twisting matters to suit your purpose.For instance I only said that 'Sachin on his own has several great series  with brilliant numbers based on the context ' and "HENCE" no need of comparing him with Kohli  in this case.You twisted that  and accuses me  of 'claiming not sensible to compare Kohli and Sachin at all at any time'.So better keep your ideas with yourself.No point in chatting with you

[Pollack]

Is Sachin the Greatest batsmen to have played the sport?

 

[rtmohanlal]

10 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

But it was?

 

Look at the best ODI bowlers going around in the 90s

 

 

There are at least 8-9 ATG bowlers in this list.

 

Compare it to the best bowlers of this decade

 

 

I mean is there even a comparison. Except for Starc, would any of these guys be considered ODI greats by the time they are finished? Batting in ODIs has just got infinitely easier. Which is why you have folks like Williamson/Guptill having better raw stats than Lara and Rohit Sharma having better raw stats than Ponting.

And most of these averages  are built around the fact that batsmen are willing to get out in heap going for that extra run.That's why such high econ:s despite even sub 25 avg:s. Means even sub 25 bowlers of current decades can't be compared   to their 90's counterparts  in terms of mere averages.

[putrevus]

Just now, rtmohanlal said:

you believe in your  rigid non  sense.What ever it is put across you  is  not going to change your mind.A person who basically believes that a mere '100'  scored against Nel,Langevelt & Kallis batting first  in a bilateral is more valuable than 98  scored  of just 75 balls chasing a big target in a world cup against arch rivals  and that too against 2 ATG bowlers and a border line ATG is not worthy of even a chat with.And here comes another of your strange claim.Waqar retired  immediately after Sachin's onslaught  and hence what all he did till that point can be neglected as unworthy of being an ATG bowler .Isn't it???????????Come onnn.... get a life maan. And what not, you have this habit of twisting matters to suit your purpose.For instance I only said that 'Sachin on his own has several great series  with brilliant numbers based on the context ' and "HENCE" no need of comparing him with Kohli  in this case.You twisted that  and accuses me  of 'claiming not sensible to compare Kohli and Sachin at all at any time'.So better keep your ideas with yourself.No point in chatting with you

So how can you claim Sachin 98 as some how as  magical innings against greatest bowlers so it should overlook all his other shortcomings. No said Sachin was a bad batsman or he was not great.

Akram and Younis were on their last legs that is point so don't glorify that 98 as this magical innings made against Akram the greatest left arm fast bowler in his prime.

You are claiming that 98 as an evidence that somehow that is  the greatest innings played any batsmen.I have seen Sachin all my life and I have seen Kohli rise thru and become this giant and in my personal point of view Kohli the odi batsman is far superior to Sachin the odi batsman and it is not even close.

 

[Cricketics]

16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Akram and Younis were on their last legs that is point so don't glorify that 98 as this magical innings made against Akram the greatest left arm fast bowler in his prime.

You are claiming that 98 as an evidence that somehow that is  the greatest innings played any batsmen.I have seen Sachin all my life and I have seen Kohli rise thru and become this giant and in my personal point of view Kohli the odi batsman is far superior to Sachin the odi batsman and it is not even close.

 

That 98 alone because of the pressure of the game as it was an India-Pak game after a long time and lot of tension, needs to be commended.

 

I don’t agree with you or neither agree with others who claim it to be okay knock or great knock just because it wasn’t a century or was against bowlers on on their last legs.

 

 

This is where mentality is wrong of most people. People glorify past players a lot and as well at the same time do not appreciate the pressure which was before certain games.

 

 

Tendulkar knock was incredible just because of the pressure there was in the game. It was one of his best knocks in any of the game.  Incredible pressure that. You can’t compare that pressure to Anderson bowling in a series decider in a test series or Starc, Holding, Marshall, Lee bowling at serious pace or whatever.

 

 

This was incredibly special knock just because of the tension which existed.

 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Cricketics said:

That 98 alone because of the pressure of the game as it was an India-Pak game after a long time and lot of tension, needs to be commended.

 

I don’t agree with you or neither agree with others who claim it to be okay knock or great knock just because it wasn’t a century or was against bowlers on on their last legs.

 

 

This is where mentality is wrong of most people. People glorify past players a lot and as well at the same time do not appreciate the pressure which was before certain games.

 

 

Tendulkar knock was incredible just because of the pressure there was in the game. It was one of his best knocks in any of the game.  Incredible pressure that. You can’t compare that pressure to Anderson bowling in a series decider in a test series or Starc, Holding, Marshall, Lee bowling at serious pace or whatever.

 

 

This was incredibly special knock just because of the tension which existed.

 

 

 

 

I never said it was not great knock but that should not cover up his other shortcomings. I watched that match live and was thrilled by that knock.How can anyone claim it was made against Akram and Younis at their prime.They both were on their last legs and Younis was bowling medium pace then.

[sourab10forever]

38 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Is Sachin the Greatest batsmen to have played the sport?

 

Toh phir vote kardo na...

Try and find a 'yes' and select it.