Pandya v. Bhuvneshwar - the better choice of allrounder?

[Real McCoy]

2 minutes ago, goose said:

Perhaps I didn't quite mean that. Still perception plays a role. The allrounder tag seems reserved for those that excite with bat. What does a bowler have to average with the bat to be termed an allrounder? I would say judging by Flintoff, Stokes, Moeen the threshold is 30 if you can also make it on the strength of your bowling alone. I think Bhuvi has a case. 

Perception is a funny term. I would rather hear ex players opinion rather than look at stats. Bhuvi is a good new ball bowler with the ability to bat but is not an AR. Flintoff, Stokes look the part even if they fail. Stokes picked up important wickets against us and scored grinding 50s against us. He could also up the tempo if needed because he has the match winning ability with bat and ball. I dont think Bhuvi can score 258 against SA in Durban or score a 100 in Perth lol. This is not perception but reality

[goose]

1 minute ago, Real McCoy said:

Perception is a funny term. I would rather hear ex players opinion rather than look at stats. Bhuvi is a good new ball bowler with the ability to bat but is not an AR. Flintoff, Stokes look the part even if they fail. Stokes picked up important wickets against us and scored grinding 50s against us. He could also up the tempo if needed because he has the match winning ability with bat and ball. I dont think Bhuvi can score 258 against SA in Durban or score a 100 in Perth lol. This is not perception but reality

He's a more of an allrounder than Pandya - that's my point. So an allrounder is someone that might deliver, someone that tantalises you with the possibilities. 

[Real McCoy]

Just now, goose said:

He's a more of an allrounder than Pandya - that's my point. So an allrounder is someone that might deliver, someone that tantalises you with the possibilities. 

You sound like Manju. Fight with Stokes on twitter

[Real McCoy]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

If we are playing 2 specialist spinners among the 4 specialist bowling slots, I would want Pandya as the 3rd seamer to support Bumrah and Shami, and bat at #6 or #7 

 

He plays one or two impactful knocks in a series so could come in to play at Sydney (and when our batting has been dependent on Pujara + Kohli, along with now Agarwal)  

You are out of your mind

[maniac]

5 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

You are out of your mind

 

6 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

You sound like Manju. Fight with Stokes on twitter

What side are you on

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

I have seen Bhuvi pick wicket in clusters in  3rd spells. 2 that come to mind are against WI and SA. Also has much more application with the bat.

 

If it was LOIs it’s not even a debate but Bhuvi is a much better “test” allrounder than Pandya. 

Bhuvi is not hit the deck bowler. He just floats the ball up. It is not going to work in Australia. You have to hit the deck hard to get something out of it. Pandya is good at that. Again i am assuming he is the same pandya who took fifer in England. 

[Vilander]

i think Pandya can bowl better in Sydney and probably bat better as well. Bhuv can bowl better with new ball and can survive better if he just blocks. 

[vvvslaxman]

 

These kinds of balls will be useful in Australia.

[Real McCoy]

22 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

What side are you on

Im on the side of neither is an AR. Im also on the unchanged side for Sydney.

[zen]

Pandya bowls much better when he has a relatively new/hard ball in his hands .... Many times, he is brought in to bowl with the soft ball to rest bowlers or when the new ball is around the corner. Some folks try to judge Pandya's bowling (conveniently?) based on that (as if he is a spinner who can do well with the old ball) 
 

IF we are playing 2 spinners among the 4 specialist bowling slot, Pandya is the 5th bowler. And as the 3rd seamer, he will get a relatively hard ball to bowl, which will increase his effectiveness .... And we know that Pandya's 50+ runs knocks are impactful  

 

 

 

[R.D forever]

None. 6 specialist batsmen 4 bowlers should be the ideal team. Kohli has realised it now. No need to spoil the balance by adding bits and pieces cricketers

[zen]

1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

Im on the side of neither is an AR. Im also on the unchanged side for Sydney.

Having all 3 of Vihari, Rahane and Rohit in the line up is a challenge .... though conditions at Sydney would be relatively batting friendly 

Edited December 30, 2018 by zen

[sandeep]

In test cricket, it'd be Bhuvi 80% of the time.  Pandya can only edge out Bhuvi situationally, in cases where you are playing 3 other seamers already and want to strengthen the batting more than improving the bowling.  AND the conditions are hostile to swing bowling.  

 

Bhuvi is very, very underrated by a few on ICF - he can be effective even without overly swinging conditions.  He's a class test player period.  

[Adi BB]

It's unfair to compare them both and their utility comes differently in different conditions. 

Don't know how people are considering bhuvi a better bat than pandya ? Bhuvis ceiling at best is 30-40 when set maybe even a 50 ,pandya's ceiling is much higher ,he can also disrupt a well bowling spinner's rhythm. 

Bhuvi off course is a far better bowler atm but if you get a flat pitch or similar to mcg it's better to play pandya instead of useless rohit 

[Adi BB]

It was also unfair to throw pandya straight into the side for 2 extremely difficult tours eng and saf ,now that the away cycle is over and I hope he learned a lot from it ,he'll gain test match experience in the home cycle which will make him a better cricketer for the next away cycle I believe 

[Tendulkar1996]

For home series we need neither with ashwin,kuldeep or jaddu.

For away series too probably we need either if we have 1 good spinner plus vihari.Bhuvi cant bat at 7 with our tail sry.And i dont trust pandya to either bat or bowl reliably.

[rkt.india]

10 hours ago, goose said:

Bhuvneshwar's last 4 innings with the bat:

 

30 from 114 balls - Jburg

30 from 72 balls - Jburg

13* from 62 balls - Cape Town

25 from 112 balls - Cape Town

 

He is our Pat Cummins.

 

So not an alrounder. Cummins isn't an all-rounder yet. Also if Cummins was bowling 130 kph would not have been playing for Australia even as a bowler. BK is a bowler who can stick around.

[rkt.india]

10 hours ago, goose said:

What about Bhuv's batting? his exclusion in the first test in SA was roundly ridiculed. Why has everyone seemingly forgotten?

 

Bhuvi had added pace and improved his batting. If there's any swing around he will find it. 

 

Bhuvi has lost pace after his injury.

[vvvslaxman]

If only Bhuvi had been doing the same job of Ishant doing all through the year without picking up an injury selection would have been a lot easier. Picking up an injury in the year when we had string overseas of matches was just bad. Zak did the same. But we won a lot of crucial overseas matches without Zak. This is why Ishant has had such a long career despite blowing hot and cold. He rarely was out with an injury. Shami/Ishant/Bumrah = 0 to 10 runs most of the time. It makes the selection a lot harder. After this series Shami, Ishant, Bumrah have to work on their batting a bit. Maybe playing up the order for their state in some matches.

[SK_IH]

10 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

If only Bhuvi had been doing the same job of Ishant doing all through the year without picking up an injury selection would have been a lot easier. Picking up an injury in the year when we had string overseas of matches was just bad. Zak did the same. But we won a lot of crucial overseas matches without Zak. This is why Ishant has had such a long career despite blowing hot and cold. He rarely was out with an injury. Shami/Ishant/Bumrah = 0 to 10 runs most of the time. It makes the selection a lot harder. After this series Shami, Ishant, Bumrah have to work on their batting a bit. Maybe playing up the order for their state in some matches.

Yes Bhuvi in place of Ishant would make this team more complete. I have high hopes from Nagarkoti, if he hasnt lose pace post injury, he can be great addition in a short while. This guy is Jaddu level fielder and capable batsman.