Real McCoy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, goose said: Perhaps I didn't quite mean that. Still perception plays a role. The allrounder tag seems reserved for those that excite with bat. What does a bowler have to average with the bat to be termed an allrounder? I would say judging by Flintoff, Stokes, Moeen the threshold is 30 if you can also make it on the strength of your bowling alone. I think Bhuvi has a case. Perception is a funny term. I would rather hear ex players opinion rather than look at stats. Bhuvi is a good new ball bowler with the ability to bat but is not an AR. Flintoff, Stokes look the part even if they fail. Stokes picked up important wickets against us and scored grinding 50s against us. He could also up the tempo if needed because he has the match winning ability with bat and ball. I dont think Bhuvi can score 258 against SA in Durban or score a 100 in Perth lol. This is not perception but reality Ridgepi 1 Link to comment
goose Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Real McCoy said: Perception is a funny term. I would rather hear ex players opinion rather than look at stats. Bhuvi is a good new ball bowler with the ability to bat but is not an AR. Flintoff, Stokes look the part even if they fail. Stokes picked up important wickets against us and scored grinding 50s against us. He could also up the tempo if needed because he has the match winning ability with bat and ball. I dont think Bhuvi can score 258 against SA in Durban or score a 100 in Perth lol. This is not perception but reality He's a more of an allrounder than Pandya - that's my point. So an allrounder is someone that might deliver, someone that tantalises you with the possibilities. Link to comment
Real McCoy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, goose said: He's a more of an allrounder than Pandya - that's my point. So an allrounder is someone that might deliver, someone that tantalises you with the possibilities. You sound like Manju. Fight with Stokes on twitter Link to comment
Real McCoy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, zen said: If we are playing 2 specialist spinners among the 4 specialist bowling slots, I would want Pandya as the 3rd seamer to support Bumrah and Shami, and bat at #6 or #7 He plays one or two impactful knocks in a series so could come in to play at Sydney (and when our batting has been dependent on Pujara + Kohli, along with now Agarwal) You are out of your mind Link to comment
maniac Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: You are out of your mind 6 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: You sound like Manju. Fight with Stokes on twitter What side are you on Ridgepi 1 Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 hour ago, maniac said: I have seen Bhuvi pick wicket in clusters in 3rd spells. 2 that come to mind are against WI and SA. Also has much more application with the bat. If it was LOIs it’s not even a debate but Bhuvi is a much better “test” allrounder than Pandya. Bhuvi is not hit the deck bowler. He just floats the ball up. It is not going to work in Australia. You have to hit the deck hard to get something out of it. Pandya is good at that. Again i am assuming he is the same pandya who took fifer in England. Real McCoy 1 Link to comment
Vilander Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 i think Pandya can bowl better in Sydney and probably bat better as well. Bhuv can bowl better with new ball and can survive better if he just blocks. express bowling 1 Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 These kinds of balls will be useful in Australia. Link to comment
Real McCoy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 22 minutes ago, maniac said: What side are you on Im on the side of neither is an AR. Im also on the unchanged side for Sydney. Link to comment
zen Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Pandya bowls much better when he has a relatively new/hard ball in his hands .... Many times, he is brought in to bowl with the soft ball to rest bowlers or when the new ball is around the corner. Some folks try to judge Pandya's bowling (conveniently?) based on that (as if he is a spinner who can do well with the old ball) IF we are playing 2 spinners among the 4 specialist bowling slot, Pandya is the 5th bowler. And as the 3rd seamer, he will get a relatively hard ball to bowl, which will increase his effectiveness .... And we know that Pandya's 50+ runs knocks are impactful Link to comment
R.D forever Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 None. 6 specialist batsmen 4 bowlers should be the ideal team. Kohli has realised it now. No need to spoil the balance by adding bits and pieces cricketers Real McCoy 1 Link to comment
zen Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Real McCoy said: Im on the side of neither is an AR. Im also on the unchanged side for Sydney. Having all 3 of Vihari, Rahane and Rohit in the line up is a challenge .... though conditions at Sydney would be relatively batting friendly Edited December 30, 2018 by zen Link to comment
sandeep Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 In test cricket, it'd be Bhuvi 80% of the time. Pandya can only edge out Bhuvi situationally, in cases where you are playing 3 other seamers already and want to strengthen the batting more than improving the bowling. AND the conditions are hostile to swing bowling. Bhuvi is very, very underrated by a few on ICF - he can be effective even without overly swinging conditions. He's a class test player period. Link to comment
Adi BB Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 It's unfair to compare them both and their utility comes differently in different conditions. Don't know how people are considering bhuvi a better bat than pandya ? Bhuvis ceiling at best is 30-40 when set maybe even a 50 ,pandya's ceiling is much higher ,he can also disrupt a well bowling spinner's rhythm. Bhuvi off course is a far better bowler atm but if you get a flat pitch or similar to mcg it's better to play pandya instead of useless rohit express bowling 1 Link to comment
Adi BB Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 It was also unfair to throw pandya straight into the side for 2 extremely difficult tours eng and saf ,now that the away cycle is over and I hope he learned a lot from it ,he'll gain test match experience in the home cycle which will make him a better cricketer for the next away cycle I believe express bowling 1 Link to comment
Tendulkar1996 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 For home series we need neither with ashwin,kuldeep or jaddu. For away series too probably we need either if we have 1 good spinner plus vihari.Bhuvi cant bat at 7 with our tail sry.And i dont trust pandya to either bat or bowl reliably. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 10 hours ago, goose said: Bhuvneshwar's last 4 innings with the bat: 30 from 114 balls - Jburg 30 from 72 balls - Jburg 13* from 62 balls - Cape Town 25 from 112 balls - Cape Town He is our Pat Cummins. So not an alrounder. Cummins isn't an all-rounder yet. Also if Cummins was bowling 130 kph would not have been playing for Australia even as a bowler. BK is a bowler who can stick around. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 10 hours ago, goose said: What about Bhuv's batting? his exclusion in the first test in SA was roundly ridiculed. Why has everyone seemingly forgotten? Bhuvi had added pace and improved his batting. If there's any swing around he will find it. Bhuvi has lost pace after his injury. express bowling 1 Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 If only Bhuvi had been doing the same job of Ishant doing all through the year without picking up an injury selection would have been a lot easier. Picking up an injury in the year when we had string overseas of matches was just bad. Zak did the same. But we won a lot of crucial overseas matches without Zak. This is why Ishant has had such a long career despite blowing hot and cold. He rarely was out with an injury. Shami/Ishant/Bumrah = 0 to 10 runs most of the time. It makes the selection a lot harder. After this series Shami, Ishant, Bumrah have to work on their batting a bit. Maybe playing up the order for their state in some matches. Link to comment
SK_IH Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: If only Bhuvi had been doing the same job of Ishant doing all through the year without picking up an injury selection would have been a lot easier. Picking up an injury in the year when we had string overseas of matches was just bad. Zak did the same. But we won a lot of crucial overseas matches without Zak. This is why Ishant has had such a long career despite blowing hot and cold. He rarely was out with an injury. Shami/Ishant/Bumrah = 0 to 10 runs most of the time. It makes the selection a lot harder. After this series Shami, Ishant, Bumrah have to work on their batting a bit. Maybe playing up the order for their state in some matches. Yes Bhuvi in place of Ishant would make this team more complete. I have high hopes from Nagarkoti, if he hasnt lose pace post injury, he can be great addition in a short while. This guy is Jaddu level fielder and capable batsman. Link to comment
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