Is the ‘Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins’ pace attack better than ‘McGrath, Lee and Gillespie’ attack?

[R!TTER]

And you're comparing them to who, from this gen?

Just now, rkt.india said:

Max 3 batsmen in WI, 3 in Pak side. Even those Pak batsmen were nothing great overseas.

Even with better pitches for bowling these days, only Cummins avg less than 30 last year with the ball last year. I'm pretty sure that should settle the debate, but then you'll tell us how nostalgia clogs up our collective minds.

Edited January 2, 2019 by R!TTER

[Vilander]

But over all looking at pace attacks.

 

SA

Pak

Aus

Ind

 

The retiring Eng attack.

 

its amazing pace era. 

[Nikhil_cric]

OZ attack have had a bad 2018 but there is a case for comparing the attacks in tests. Gillespie was good but very inconsistent and Lee was never a good test bowler while the 3 were together. 

 

In ODIs though , the 2002 Australian bowling attack of McGrath, Gillespie,Lee and Warne all at their peaks is the greatest ever ODI bowling attack and second to none!!

[Adi BB]

On potential the current pace attack of Australia is right up there and can better their predecessors. 

But that attack of Lee,McGrath and Gillespie were proven performers and had the fear factor along with longevity.

At the moment 

McGrath >> all

Starc = lee,Lee has an average of 28 in Australia,had more top order wkts and after 40 odd tests he had a similar record as starc 

Gillespie >= hazlewood atm,he might overtake in the future. 

Cummins is the x factor though,if he picks wkts at an average of sub 25 then there's more merit in the comparison,he hasn't even played 20 tests yet 

[Vijy]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

Special bowlers raise the quality of the total attack disproportionately.

 

McGrath and Warner were two such special bowlers.   When they played, that too two special bowlers together ...  they gave the Aussie attack an extra special quality.

 

Otherwise, there is not much qualitative difference between Gillespie and Hazlewood or Lee and Starc.

 

Cummins may become a special bowler in the coming days if he has longevity as a bowler, because he combines intelligence and match awareness with pace and bounce.

 

 

 

 

I, for one, expect to see both Hazelwood and Starc's averages creep upwards as they get older. Too early to tell with Cummins either way, although I think he can finish with an avg of 23-24 in the end.

[mancalledsting]

Hell no

 

McGrath bounce bowler ATG

Gillespie swing 

Lee express pace

 

above attack had everything 

[Rightarmfast]

Anybody who thinks Starc is just as good as Lee, clearly doesnt know the difference between 146 and 156! The difference is 10k's. 

We can compare the 2 attacks, just that when you havent actually seen Mcgrath, Lee, Gillespie bowl together in tandem, but only read about it, seen highlights or seen on youtube and read about them, your knowledge is hollow. There were other batsmen in that era, if one believes that Indian line up was a joke ( when you dont have experience of watching first hand, you may come up with such conclusions ). The 90's and 2000 attack used to terrorize batsmen in their own den. Be it WI, SA or Eng. Theres no comparison!

[AmreekanDesi]

Ok so people are unhappy about the direct comparison. Let’s do a points based comparison

 

Current Attack:

Starc = 8.5

Cummins = 8.5

Hazelwood = 8

Total Point = 25

 

2000s Attack:

McGrath = 9.5

Lee = 7.5

Gillespie = 7 (I’m being generous here)

Total Points = 24

 

So even on a whole attack to attack comparison the current pace line up is better 

[Deleted_User_1]

No phucking way, NO WAY!!

[Trichromatic]

11 minutes ago, AmreekanDesi said:

Ok so people are unhappy about the direct comparison. Let’s do a points based comparison

 

Current Attack:

Starc = 8.5

Cummins = 8.5

 Hazelwood = 8

 Total Point = 25

 

 2000s Attack:

 McGrath = 9.5

 Lee = 7.5

Gillespie = 7 (I’m being generous here)

Total Points = 24

 

So even on a whole attack to attack comparison the current pace line up is better 

Cummins is same as Starc? Lee better than Gillespie?

 

Difference between Gillespie and Starc is higher than difference between McGrath and Starc?

 

Has to be most random rating I have seen on ICF.

 

Forget about comparison with 2000s attack, Starc is probably 4th best bowler in his own team.

[AmreekanDesi]

14 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Cummins is same as Starc? Lee better than Gillespie?

 

Difference between Gillespie and Starc is higher than difference between McGrath and Starc?

 

Has to be most random rating I have seen on ICF.

 

Forget about comparison with 2000s attack, Starc is probably 4th best bowler in his own team.

Ok even if you make Cummins 8 the current attack is better

 

Also... Gillespie is prolly 6.5 if we’re being totally fair 

[raki05]

17 hours ago, JourneyMan said:

Starc

....other than sand paper gate series what is his achievement  in test. Where as lee took 5 wkt haul in his debut series against atg batting Indian line-up.

Edited January 3, 2019 by raki05

[dragonfly]

Any 3 person Aussies pace attack in the McGrath era (with McGrath being one of the three) >> Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins. That good was McGrath.

[R!TTER]

You're really underrating Gillespie here, he was a giant killer. The enforcer in that lineup, I think till his injury in WC 2003 he was also super quick & did well all over the world. Check his record, especially abroad - way better than overrated Hazelwood.

[AmreekanDesi]

34 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You're really underrating Gillespie here, he was a giant killer. The enforcer in that lineup, I think till his injury in WC 2003 he was also super quick & did well all over the world. Check his record, especially abroad - way better than overrated Hazelwood.

He was a dibbly dobbly bowler who owes his career to McGrath and warne 

[R!TTER]

Dibbly dobbly, you either haven't seen him play or just trolling for some reason. His top speed was exceeded only by Starc, for a lot of his career he was quick - Cummins quick if not more.

[Trichromatic]

23 minutes ago, AmreekanDesi said:

He was a dibbly dobbly bowler who owes his career to McGrath and warne 

Gillespie was a fast bowler, not even fast medium.

[Trichromatic]

2 hours ago, AmreekanDesi said:

Ok even if you make Cummins 8 the current attack is better

 

Also... Gillespie is prolly 6.5 if we’re being totally fair 

Ok

[rkt.india]

Just saw that Starc has a better SR, 50, than Lee and McGrath but he is not as consistent and can concede runs that is why his average is on a higher side.

[rkt.india]

12 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Ok

Replace Starc with McGrath and this attack of McGrath, Cummins, and Hazlewood will be better than that the attack of McGrath, Gillespie, Lee.  I still think that 2000 attack was better but not by much.  McGrath alone made the real difference.