Alam_dar Posted August 8, 2019 Posted August 8, 2019 In one word, it is JUSTICE. Till the time people have believe in the Police/Judiciary/laws/Constitution (which all together make the Justice System), till then there could never be a rebellion against the state. Most Indian Muslims seem to be patriotic to India. The reason they told is this that despite many complaints against Police and Government of BJP, still they have strong believe in the Indian Constitution and Judiciary. They still believe that courts will provide them the justice against the corrupt/political Police too. Perhaps this formula could work in Kashmir too. If they are made to realise than indeed Judiciary/Laws/Constitution are able to provide them with Justice, then they could come out of their fears and integrate in the Indian society fast. But if lack of confidence stays there, and they are unable to believe in State Justice, then this may prolong the problems in Kashmir for decades. Most people here are fan of BJP. But I have always severely criticised the far right leaning of BJP, while I see that these extremist tendencies of BJP are making many other people to loose their belief in Justice of the Indian State. You may put thousands of blame upon Congress. But during the Congress Era, almost all Indians were proud of being Bharatiyas, while they believed in the Justice of the State. Unfortunately, situation is not similar under BJP, where many many people are bring blamed to be traitors. You may disagree me on the Congress point, and it would be ok while it is only my personal observation, which may be wrong. Laaloo and beetle 2
sandeep Posted August 8, 2019 Posted August 8, 2019 As usual you have half a point to make where you make sense, but then proceed to carry on and lose the plot. It is very valid to say that Kashmiris have lost faith in Justice - due to the disillusionment they faced with the "unresolved" status of Kashmir, and then the military response that followed the violent secession struggle. And a restoration of a faith in justice is the only way India can re-build a future with the Kashmiris. But petty political parties aren't going to decide that. Its much more than that.
Jimmy Cliff Posted August 8, 2019 Posted August 8, 2019 Jeez. People still take this Jihadi apologist buffoon half seriously . Pretty obvious he is cut from the same cloth as some of the other Jihadi apologists that infest this place (they know who they are). The only difference being that he opts for the atheist-humanist shtick. Laaloo, beetle, sergio04 and 1 other 2 2
Laaloo Posted August 8, 2019 Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) OP chutiya tha chutiya hai aur chutiya Hamesha rahega Edited August 8, 2019 by Laaloo Norman and sergio04 2
Alam_dar Posted August 9, 2019 Author Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, sandeep said: As usual you have half a point to make where you make sense, but then proceed to carry on and lose the plot. It is very valid to say that Kashmiris have lost faith in Justice - due to the disillusionment they faced with the "unresolved" status of Kashmir, and then the military response that followed the violent secession struggle. And a restoration of a faith in justice is the only way India can re-build a future with the Kashmiris. But petty political parties aren't going to decide that. Its much more than that. I am not worried about what happened in Kashmir in the past. I am not talking of what will happen in Kashmir in the near future. Sure they are in state of anger at moment and will protest in the near future. I am talking about the far future. People say that development in Kashmir will bring these Kashmiris to believe in State of India. In my opinion, there will be no development without first bringing the feeling of Justice from State Institutions among the Kashmiris. In more simple words, at moment Kashmiris believe that BJP is trying to make them 2nd class citizens. They (even the Moderate Muslim Kashmiris, who earlier sided with India as compared to Pakistan) don't believe in BJP led government. In fact, this feelings is not limited to Kashmir, but Muslims of whole India (even the moderate ones) are getting this feeling. They need something to hold on, and it should be the Judiciary/law/Constitution, while they have no trust left in the Police/taxation office/CBI like State Institutions under BJP. In any civilised society, State Institutions should never be under the influence of any Government. It will bring only lack of confidence in the State. Want to integrate Kashmiris easily into India, then restore their faith in State of India. Otherwise resistance in Kashmir may prolong. BJP is in absolute power at moment. And absolute power corrupts easily. Edited August 9, 2019 by Alam_dar Laaloo, Norman and coffee_rules 2 1
putrevus Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 Morons in Paksitan need to understand Pakistani govt is not friend of Kashmiris, they want to keep that issue alive as that is their meal ticket.Pakistan army have kept the issue alive with these Muftis and Abudullahs.Both of them have no interest in solving the issue as if the issue is solved they are out of business. They had Shimla agreement, Lahore agreement and what not, did that solve anything.So shut and let this govt do its job.
coffee_rules Posted August 11, 2019 Posted August 11, 2019 18 minutes ago, Shaz1 said: Dil dil Kashmir Biharis and Mallus are like, Fill Fill Kashmir. Under_Score, Alam_dar, Turning_track and 2 others 5
jf1gp_1 Posted August 11, 2019 Posted August 11, 2019 On 8/9/2019 at 12:48 AM, Alam_dar said: In one word, it is JUSTICE. Till the time people have believe in the Police/Judiciary/laws/Constitution (which all together make the Justice System), till then there could never be a rebellion against the state. Most Indian Muslims seem to be patriotic to India. The reason they told is this that despite many complaints against Police and Government of BJP, still they have strong believe in the Indian Constitution and Judiciary. They still believe that courts will provide them the justice against the corrupt/political Police too. Perhaps this formula could work in Kashmir too. If they are made to realise than indeed Judiciary/Laws/Constitution are able to provide them with Justice, then they could come out of their fears and integrate in the Indian society fast. But if lack of confidence stays there, and they are unable to believe in State Justice, then this may prolong the problems in Kashmir for decades. Most people here are fan of BJP. But I have always severely criticised the far right leaning of BJP, while I see that these extremist tendencies of BJP are making many other people to loose their belief in Justice of the Indian State. You may put thousands of blame upon Congress. But during the Congress Era, almost all Indians were proud of being Bharatiyas, while they believed in the Justice of the State. Unfortunately, situation is not similar under BJP, where many many people are bring blamed to be traitors. You may disagree me on the Congress point, and it would be ok while it is only my personal observation, which may be wrong. First off cant mix justice and religion. In my view a govt decision has to be debated based on greater good. I bet a much larger portion on India wasnt happy when GST was implemented however it was first huge step towards unifying India in terms of indirect tax. Decision on 370 have to be viewed in similar manner along with whatever that will be done next.
Alam_dar Posted August 11, 2019 Author Posted August 11, 2019 4 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said: First off cant mix justice and religion. In my view a govt decision has to be debated based on greater good. I bet a much larger portion on India wasnt happy when GST was implemented however it was first huge step towards unifying India in terms of indirect tax. Decision on 370 have to be viewed in similar manner along with whatever that will be done next. I am not doubting the decision. For me, the decision is fine enough. My concern is resistance to this decision in the future. I believe that Kashmiri should be given something upon which they could hold upon. Which could bring their confidence back in the Indian State. At moment, Kashmiris are doubting the Indian State, and it's Justice. They are going towards resistance due to this mistrust. The experience with Muslim in rest of India shows that Muslims could also love India as their country and they could be loyal to India too. And the main reason for this trust was the Secular Constitution of India and the Judiciary (while Police is a fail and they don't trust that Police could bring Justice to them). In simple words, if BJP follows true Secular Values according to the constitution (instead of showing the hardcore Hindutva face), then it will help immensely to integrate the minorities in the society.
nikred Posted August 11, 2019 Posted August 11, 2019 I am not doubting the decision. For me, the decision is fine enough. My concern is resistance to this decision in the future. I believe that Kashmiri should be given something upon which they could hold upon. Which could bring their confidence back in the Indian State. At moment, Kashmiris are doubting the Indian State, and it's Justice. They are going towards resistance due to this mistrust. The experience with Muslim in rest of India shows that Muslims could also love India as their country and they could be loyal to India too. And the main reason for this trust was the Secular Constitution of India and the Judiciary (while Police is a fail and they don't trust that Police could bring Justice to them). In simple words, if BJP follows true Secular Values according to the constitution (instead of showing the hardcore Hindutva face), then it will help immensely to integrate the minorities in the society. What is this hardcore hindutva face that BJP is showing? Genuine question. Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
Alam_dar Posted August 11, 2019 Author Posted August 11, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, nikred said: What is this hardcore hindutva face that BJP is showing? Genuine question. Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk Look, Pakistan also tell that they have all the laws to protect the minorities, but this does not tell the amount of fear in the minorities on the ground. Same is true for BJP. Their supporters claim that look BJP didn't make any law against Muslisms. But on the field, Muslims are living in fear today. They could not get Appartements in Hindu localities. They are being forced to say Jai Sri Ram, otherwise they are being tortured or killed. Lynching is all time high. Police is protecting the BJP Ghundas and mostly they get free of the charges of lynching and other crimes. They are openly blamed to be traitors to India. They are threatened to be shipped to Pakistan. As far as BJP is concerned, their ideological base is RSS, they do not believe in Indian Constitution, Indian flag or secular character. Their writings are available all over. Edited August 11, 2019 by Alam_dar Norman and Laaloo 2
Laaloo Posted August 11, 2019 Posted August 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Alam_dar said: Look, Pakistan also tell that they have all the laws to protect the minorities, but this does not tell the amount of fear in the minorities on the ground. Same is true for BJP. Their supporters claim that look BJP didn't make any law against Muslisms. But on the field, Muslims are living in fear today. They could not get Appartements in Hindu localities. They are being forced to say Jai Sri Ram, otherwise they are being tortured or killed. Lynching is all time high. Police is protecting the BJP Ghundas and mostly they get free of the charges of lynching and other crimes. They are openly blamed to be traitors to India. They are threatened to be shipped to Pakistan. As far as BJP is concerned, their ideological base is RSS, they do not believe in Indian Constitution, Indian flag or secular character. Their writings are available all over. Chal Bhaag yaha se Bose dk
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