Would it be fair to say Nadeem has out performed Ashwin

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Ashwin has completely outbowled jadeja this series. Jadeja should be dropped from the XI if his bowling is going to be ineffective no matter how many rubs her scores. 

OP doesnt hate jadeja so it doesnt suit his agenda

 

[Gollum]

45 minutes ago, adi B said:

You cant drop a guy who picked a 5fer in his last test that too in Sydney 

Let us stop overrating that 5fer. We scored 622/7 in 1st dig, immense scorecard pressure and Aussies were mentally disintegrated. No Smith/Warner either, and 3 of Kuly's wickets were of tailenders. Even I had high hopes from him but seems mentally weak. Who cries over a *ing IPL incident? Isn't that what happened to him in one of the matches? Was also disgraceful in the world cup, wonder how he and Chahal have escaped scrutiny despite the worst ever showing by Indian spinners in history of WCs !!!! Another problem with him is he can't bat, a shambolic fielder as well...we already have a weak tail,  KY isn't at that level where we can excuse his 1D-ness.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Gollum

[Muloghonto]

On 10/21/2019 at 5:12 AM, Khota said:

What do you guys think?

Yes he has. It also means very little. 

[Muloghonto]

On 10/21/2019 at 7:45 PM, Khota said:

I understand small sample size and all that but I was just talking about this game.

 

20 hours ago, Khota said:

The point I am driving home is that thisone test is not an anamoly. Nadeem along with half a dozen others can out prrform Ashwin.

Clear evidence you do not understand samples space. A singular observation is by definition, until replicated, an anomaly. Since it was not a dominant performance vs an insipid one ( eg: like the innings where Kumble would take 5 wickets for 70 and Chuckbhajan would be 1-90 in one innings), it means nothing. 

 

All it means is is a borderline fringe player out did a stalwart in a one off. Happens all the time. There are matches where McGrath is out performed by Brad Williams too. 

[velu]

 

now i got it why nadeem outperformed ashin  

 

thala with his 50k versase causal pant .. might fetch 20-25L in auction

 

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, adi B said:

I actually thought both were bang average in this series ,its the saffie batsmen who were making them look little better than how they performed!

Ashwin Bowled well in the first test but went dud in the next 2 ,jadeja was darting all along, no variation ,he could have exploited that pune pitch but couldn't.

Nadeem is just a temporary replacement for kuly who was injured ,kuly should play as the second spinner with jadeja as the spin AR.

You cant drop a guy who picked a 5fer in his last test that too in Sydney 

Wrist spinners in tests can backfire quickly. That Sydney test performance was after our bats had scored heavily . I'm not convinced that we need a wrist spinner in red ball cricket yet. An accurate finger spinner who holds up an end all day with the odd wicket or two is good enough on non-turning SENA wickets. Ashwins performance in this match was poor. But overall he's been better than jadeja who has gone missing in the last 2 series. We need to find another young test class finger spinner to keep these two on their toes. 

[Vilander]

6 hours ago, adi B said:

actually thought both were bang average in this series ,its the saffie batsmen who were making them look little better

did you see Ashwins top order wickets from first test in game ? during run of play. I guess not.

[Stan AF]

https://www.hotstar.com/in/sports/cricket/south-africa-tour-of-india-2019/ashwin-returns-in-style-racks-up-7/1260011800

[adi B]

10 hours ago, Gollum said:

Let us stop overrating that 5fer. We scored 622/7 in 1st dig, immense scorecard pressure and Aussies were mentally disintegrated. No Smith/Warner either, and 3 of Kuly's wickets were of tailenders. Even I had high hopes from him but seems mentally weak. Who cries over a *ing IPL incident? Isn't that what happened to him in one of the matches? Was also disgraceful in the world cup, wonder how he and Chahal have escaped scrutiny despite the worst ever showing by Indian spinners in history of WCs !!!! Another problem with him is he can't bat, a shambolic fielder as well...we already have a weak tail,  KY isn't at that level where we can excuse his 1D-ness.

Ashwin still doesn't have a single 5fer in SENA, we can try to spin and defend him all we can but it's a harsh reality!

And this kiddo got a fifer in his first SENA match.kuldeep is miles ahead of ashwin in lois, ashwin used to bowl plenty of leg side rubbish in odis,I wont forget how useless he and jadeja were in odis for a  good few years.

It's true that kuly is not clutch or mentally strong till now but he has age on his side and will mature .

[adi B]

I dont know why posted so many posts on this garbage thread ,this thread should be deleted asap .

What a joke of a comparison between the #1 Indian spinner and a newcomer like nadeem 

[Gollum]

11 minutes ago, adi B said:

Ashwin still doesn't have a single 5fer in SENA, we can try to spin and defend him all we can but it's a harsh reality!

Neither did he face a demoralized opponent trailing by 620 runs, we need to look at match situation. I am not saying Kuly can't be a better bowler in SENA or even at home, just that let us not overrate his 5fer. Historically our spinners have sucked in SENA, barring Chandra and Kumble in his later years (last 1/4th of his career) that too occasionally. 

Quote

kuldeep is miles ahead of ashwin in lois, ashwin used to bowl plenty of leg side rubbish in odis,I wont forget how useless he and jadeja were in odis for a  good few years.

Sure but only in bilaterals. Ashwin was good in 2011 WC, dismissed Watson and Ponting in 2011 WC QF, one of the best spinners in 2015 WC, match winning spell in 2013 CT final. Jadeja was brilliant throughout in 2013 CT. The very first ICC event Kuldeep played, he flopped miserably despite his ODI credentials. Generally our spinners get bad after a few ICC events, what KulCha did in this WC is unpardonable. 

Quote

It's true that kuly is not clutch or mentally strong till now but he has age on his side and will mature .

Hope he does so. I am just a bit angry after the WC **** show...Kuly also needs to stop crying after being smashed in a tuchchh  IPL game...boy needs to toughen up. Maybe TM doesn't like him because of his weak mentality.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Gollum

[vvvslaxman]

12 minutes ago, adi B said:

Ashwin still doesn't have a single 5fer in SENA, we can try to spin and defend him all we can but it's a harsh reality!

And this kiddo got a fifer in his first SENA match.kuldeep is miles ahead of ashwin in lois, ashwin used to bowl plenty of leg side rubbish in odis,I wont forget how useless he and jadeja were in odis for a  good few years.

It's true that kuly is not clutch or mentally strong till now but he has age on his side and will mature .

Austrlaia is more suitable for leggies and spinners who use body. Ashwin is very good with SG and okay with Duke. But still not at his best with Kookaburra. We just have to go with horse for courses. In England Ashwin is okay. But in SA/OZ they can back kuldeep. But Kuldeep has to improve his batting.

[Ankit_sharma03]

17 minutes ago, adi B said:

Ashwin still doesn't have a single 5fer in SENA, we can try to spin and defend him all we can but it's a harsh reality!

he wud have had an 8 fer when he was at 4 wkts when our gr8 fielder n goal keeper parthiv patel together dropped 4-5 of catches on his bowling

17 minutes ago, adi B said:

And this kiddo got a fifer in his first SENA match.kuldeep is miles ahead of ashwin in lois, ashwin used to bowl plenty of leg side rubbish in odis,I wont forget how useless he and jadeja were in odis for a  good few years.

most finger spinners have gone out of buss in LOI, even lyon is struggling to keep his place to zampa 

Rules have become more favourable for wristies in LOI.....ashwin was doing well in LOI till 2015 

 

[adi B]

8 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Neither did he face a demoralized opponent trailing by 620 runs, we need to look at match situation. I am not saying Kuly can't be a better bowler in SENA or even at home, just that let us not overrate his 5fer. Historically our spinners have sucked in SENA, barring Chandra and Kumble in his later years (last 1/4th of his career) that too occasionally. 

Sure but only in bilaterals. Ashwin was good in 2011 WC, dismissed Watson and Ponting in 2011 WC QF, one of the best spinners in 2015 WC, match winning spell in 2013 CT final. Jadeja was brilliant throughout in 2013 CT. The very first ICC event Kuldeep played, he flopped miserably despite his ODI credentials. Generally our spinners get bad after a few ICC events, what KulCha did in this WC is unpardonable. 

Hope he does so. I am just a bit angry after the WC **** show...Kuly also needs to stop crying after being smashed in a tuchchh  IPL game...boy needs to toughen up. Maybe TM doesn't like him because of his weak mentality.

Ashwin did well on 2015 WC primarily because of having played so many matches prior to the WC in Australia,he got smart enough to know what to bowl. 

2013 and 2011 ,he was genuinely good in odis ,it was since 2014 when he began his rubbish leg side lines.

Kuly bechara hasn't even played a KO match till date so wont comment on him,he has got time on his side and will do better than ashwin and jadeja in LOIs as a whole .It certainly ain't that tough to average less than 32 and 34 respectively in odis with average E/r 

 

[adi B]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

he wud have had an 8 fer when he was at 4 wkts when our gr8 fielder n goal keeper parthiv patel together dropped 4-5 of catches on his bowling

most finger spinners have gone out of buss in LOI, even lyon is struggling to keep his place to zampa 

Rules have become more favourable for wristies in LOI.....ashwin was doing well in LOI till 2015 

 

I'd actually play Kuly over jadeja and ashwin in nzl series but that wont ever happen.

Ashwin and jadeja are champions in SC conditions but in SENA we need a surprise package and kuly ideally loves the pitches with zip and bounce 

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, adi B said:

I'd actually play Kuly over jadeja and ashwin in nzl series but that wont ever happen.

As of now we dont knw his form, he has been struggling with his form and he has made changes to his action like putting in more body so whats his current rhythem n how much control does he have with these changes remains to be seen. 

 

I rate him highly but kuly hasnt been at his best himself this year and then he doesnt offer batting like those 2 and super fielding jadeja . I hope he gets fit n plays bangladesh series.....we need to see his rhythem n confidence which was at low this year

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[Gollum]

24 minutes ago, adi B said:

Kuly bechara hasn't even played a KO match till date so wont comment on him,he has got time on his side and will do better than ashwin and jadeja in LOIs as a whole .It certainly ain't that tough to average less than 32 and 34 respectively in odis with average E/r 

 

I don't care if he has better stats than them or not, just want him turn up in ICC events. Nowadays I don't care how we do in ODI bilaterals....too much meaningless cricket these days. This applies to not just Kuldeep but ever single member in the team including Kohli. Don't care what Kohli does with his ODI record, let him average 70 @110 SR  with 80 centuries for all I care....would prefer if he stops making a fool out of himself and the team in KOs, or at least dominate the league phase like Rohit did in this WC !!!! It isn't just about experience, Kohli has played 3 WCs, OTOH a mediocre ODI batsman came up with 3 match winning knocks in QF/SF/F of 2015 WC and lone warrior from his side in 2019 SF...mentality is what matters.

 

But you are right about Kuly's age, he needs to up his mental game, minimum aur 2 WCs hai uske paas. I am less patient with Chahal, 2nd biggest match ka mujrim in that SF, 1/63 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Gollum

[vvvslaxman]

To be fair to Ashwin, he is one of the most overly exposed bowler going around the world. Playing all 3 formats for  awhile. He has been one of the leading offie in the IPL for a long time. HE had a slump. Did okay this season. Longer you play more likely that batsmen figure you out. I am hoping SHreyas gopal who i consider him in the Ashwin mould gets a break. Tall guy who can bat. Except he is a leggie. But it is very very hard to emulate What Ashwin has done even if you play every single game at home. Only reason he has sustained so far is because of his variations. Especially the carrom ball was so good in this series. Ball went straight on with same off spinning action. 

[Muloghonto]

On 10/22/2019 at 4:19 AM, Khota said:

Bowler A:

 

Fewer overs, x4 more wkts, better economy.

 

Bowler B:

 

x2 more overs, 1/4th wkts, worse economy.

 

Who is better?

 

Conventional wisdom: Bowler A

 

ICF experts: Bowler B

 

Bowler B is Ashwin and Bowler B is Nadeem.

 

I am sitting and laughing.

You are laughing by yourself because your data is one off. Which is why you ignored my previous post showing how you don’t understands statistical distribution.

[vvvslaxman]

8 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

You are laughing by yourself because your data is one off. Which is why you ignored my previous post showing how you don’t understands statistical distribution.

We have tried to educate him in so many ways lol (comically, seriously). i don't think he is getting it.