Public "obsessed" with winning ICC trophy

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

LOL can you come up with better excuses please.

 

Let’s see how Kohli ‘resurrected’ careers of Shami and Umesh by not picking them in knock outs of two ICC trophies which he promptly went onto lose. Umesh in 2017 CT and Shami in 2019 WC were the two in-form pacers. Kohli gave them confidence by benching them for Bhuvi Kumar as he offered ‘control’! Some way to motivate players that.

 

Then come Kuldeep and Chahal. From July 2017 to Oct 2018, both won match after match for India bowling in tandem during the middle overs home or away. But then Kohli suddenly rediscovered the control Jadeja offered. Do you remember how many times Kuldeep/Chahal were benched before the WC as Kohli preferred Jadeja. No wonder both of them had lost rhythm and it showed in the WC. Someway to get your premier spinners ready for the WC.

 

Less said about his batting choices, the better.

 

Thats that for LOIs.

 

In tests, two away series of note we played were vs SA and England. Both again lost due to incompetent captaincy and baffling team selections as kaptaan saahib was busy playing a game of roulette picking and dropping players at his whim.

 

Be happy with the stats padding vs WI, SL, SA in transition, Aus and BD missing two main players. The upcoming NZ series will show the real strength of this test team, like the Eng and SA tours did earlier. Whom will you blame for the inevitable? Not difficult to guess.

I am not coming with any excuses, I am offering my views. Who says they have to be picked for every match.Bhuvi was preferrred for one reason, he could offer more with bat and he is better at death. It shows lack of balance in this team that India could not afford to play both Bhuvi and Shami.India was only one team which played with just two front line seamers.

 

Kuldeep had utrocious IPL and after that he was awful.How did he do in matches he played in world cup.Yeah right let us blame everything on captain.Rahul was benched for first test in SA so he gets licence to stink for next four series where he plays every match.Stop putting the blame on captain for everything.

 

They had to try Jadeja as Kuldeep was atrocious with ball in world cup.I am happy with what he is doing as a captain as I am realistic with the talent he is having at his disposal. 

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by putrevus

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

I am not coming with any excuses, I am offering with views. Who says they have to be picked for every match.Bhuvi was preferrred for one reason, he could offer more with bat and he is better at death. It shows lack of balance in this team that India could not afford to play both Bhuvi and Shami.India was only one team which played with just two front line seamers.

 

Kuldeep had utrocious IPL and after that he was awful.How did he do in matches he played in world cup.Yeah right let us blame everything on captain.Rahul was benched for first test in SA so he gets licence to stink for next four series where he plays every match.Stop putting the blame on captain for everything.

 

They had to try Jadeja as Kuldeep was atrocious with ball in world cup.I am happy with what he is doing as a captain as I am realistic with the talent he is having at his disposal. 

 

All I read is excuses. Bhuvi this and Bhuvi that. Bhuvi offers more with the bat, hence scored 2 and 0 with the bat in the WC. Is great at death but took ZERO wickets with the new ball all through the WC.

 

Kuldeep had an atrocious IPL, of course he had. The wheels had been set in motion by his inept captain who was dropping him at his whim in the run up to the WC breaking his rhythm. BTW what exactly did Bhuvi did in the same IPL?  Or Vijay Shankar? And why was that 'IPL form' not applied for Pant's selection at 4? Let me tell you why. Because this captain thinks he is the king and can do as he wishes with a PR mafia at his back.

 

He is damn lucky he was supported in his younger days by a supportive coach and captain. If they had started judging him on 'IPL form',or form in a few matches, his career would have been over before the age of 20-21.

 

And that last bolded part makes me puke.  You are talking about an Indian team that has won u-19 WC and has won every A side tournament it has played in. Do not let the incompetence of this pretender of a captain blind your thinking about the best ever talent pool available in our history.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

All I read is excuses. Bhuvi this and Bhuvi that. Bhuvi offers more with the bat, hence scored 2 and 0 with the bat in the WC. Is great at death but took ZERO wickets with the new ball all through the WC.

 

Kuldeep had an atrocious IPL, of course he had. The wheels had been set in motion by his inept captain who was dropping him at his whim in the run up to the WC breaking his rhythm. BTW what exactly did Bhuvi did in the same IPL?  Or Vijay Shankar? And why was that 'IPL form' not applied for Pant's selection at 4? Let me tell you why. Because this captain thinks he is the king and can do as he wishes with a PR mafia at his back.

 

He is damn lucky he was supported in his younger days by a supportive coach and captain. If they had started judging him on 'IPL form',or form in a few matches, his career would have been over before the age of 20-21.

 

And that last bolded part makes me puke.  You are talking about an Indian team that has won u-19 WC and has won every A side tournament it has played in. Do not let the incompetence of this pretender of a captain blind your thinking about the best ever talent pool available in our history.

You can read whatever you want. Kohli averged in 40s from his 11th match so cut this nonsense that he was somehow supported by captain and coach, he performed thats why he went ahead of players like Raina and Rohit.It is not by accident he became no4 in world cup in 2011.

 

He was dropped after his bad test series in WI right after world cup.He was an established batsmen who scored everywhere when he failed in England. That can happen with anyone.

 

He is the best captain India ever had in any format.India has not gotten over the line in many ICC  knockout matches since 2013.Kohli took over captaincy in 2017 in odis.Kohli himself was masterful in two T20 world cups and yet has nothing to show as far trophies are concerned.

 

What has under 19 wc got to do with Indian senior team.Unmukth Chand and Baba Aparajith were stars in under 19 World cup winning team, where are they now?So this notion that India by winning under 19 world cups must have great talent is utter nonsense.

 

I just don't see any great talented batsmen in Indian cricket .Neither does the system have multifaceted players.India will still go where their top three will take them in next T20 world cup also.Hope Rahul is part of that top three.If it had talented batsmen who could fill that no4 role they would have done it,Gill and Shaw may be ones but they were too young for 2019 world cup.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by putrevus

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 hours ago, -Robin- said:

This is the mindset of Indian captains they cant think beyond process lol

 

As if 4 years process is not enough to provide result.

Problem is they are not even following the process. A process includes failure which results in learning . Kohli cant keep patience after few failure of someone. How is that even a process when he has stopped it midway. He cant even back his bad choices forget the right ones

[sandeep]

39 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Problem is they are not even following the process. A process includes failure which results in learning . Kohli cant keep patience after few failure of someone. How is that even a process when he has stopped it midway. He cant even back his bad choices forget the right ones

Captains want credit for wins, never the responsibility for the loss.  This interview shows how much Virat is believing his own hype.  

 

To think that an Indian team failed to win the WC because of problems with batting, in the middle-order?  That is, and remains a solvable problem, only made complex by a failure to address it selflessly.  If you said, we lacked pace bowling, or a good wrist spinner, or some skill that we don't have represented in the massive player pool that Indian cricket has - that's one thing.  

 

We had peak Bumrah, peak Bhuvi, peak Chahal, Hardik Pandya in his prime, Rohit firing, and Virat with the bat.  This team had all that it needed to blow away the other teams.  But it allowed a known weakness to fester and rot.  All because of selfish carelessness.  Because they know that not winning the WC has zero consequences on their brand and market value.  Whereas ceding their lucrative money-making top order batting slots to new faces definitely does.  

[Stan AF]

19 hours ago, Bigg Brother said:

He is preaching as if He has done some major things in test matches, We were anyway unbeatable at Home.

 

Lost against England 1-4 but He was lecturing that final line(Results) doesnt suggest that how interesting and competitive series was, Same in SA after the so called chase master failed to chase even targets of 200. The Australian team with Smith,Warner and new Kid Labuschagne will eat this team alive next time. The guy is biggest pretender and fraudster, even more than Dhoni.

 

He should start winning some major trophies in ODIs otherwise he will always remembered as bilateral bully,the 60-70 centuries he will hit means zilch. Rohit is already a better white ball batsman than him.

If Australia can get 1-2 more solid middle order batsmen they'll be back to being unbeatable again. Labuschagne is a great find for them.  They need one more good middle order bat and a wicket keeper bat like Haddin instead of Paine and they're good.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Stan AF

[ShoonyaSifar]

9 hours ago, putrevus said:

You can read whatever you want. Kohli averged in 40s from his 11th match so cut this nonsense that he was somehow supported by captain and coach, he performed thats why he went ahead of players like Raina and Rohit.It is not by accident he became no4 in world cup in 2011.

 

He was dropped after his bad test series in WI right after world cup.He was an established batsmen who scored everywhere when he failed in England. That can happen with anyone.

 

He is the best captain India ever had in any format.India has not gotten over the line in many ICC  knockout matches since 2013.Kohli took over captaincy in 2017 in odis.Kohli himself was masterful in two T20 world cups and yet has nothing to show as far trophies are concerned.

 

What has under 19 wc got to do with Indian senior team.Unmukth Chand and Baba Aparajith were stars in under 19 World cup winning team, where are they now?So this notion that India by winning under 19 world cups must have great talent is utter nonsense.

 

I just don't see any great talented batsmen in Indian cricket .Neither does the system have multifaceted players.India will still go where their top three will take them in next T20 world cup also.Hope Rahul is part of that top three.If it had talented batsmen who could fill that no4 role they would have done it,Gill and Shaw may be ones but they were too young for 2019 world cup.

 

 

Have you checked Kuldeep's average in LOIs? Why are you tying yourself in knots by shifting the goalposts in each argument?

 

Unmukt and Aparajith are where Kohli would have been if not for a supportive coach and captain who saw merit in picking him right after the u-19 WC.

 

Rest of the post will put to shame even Kohli's PR mafia

[Ankit_sharma03]

47 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

If Australia can get 1-2 more solid middle order batsmen they'll be back to being unbeatable again. Labuschagne is a great find for them.  They need one more good middle order bat and a wicket keeper bat like Haddin instead of Paine and they're good.

They have alex carrey.....get him in. He ll add strength to that batting order 

[Bigg Brother]

1 hour ago, Stan AF said:

If Australia can get 1-2 more solid middle order batsmen they'll be back to being unbeatable again. Labuschagne is a great find for them.  They need one more good middle order bat and a wicket keeper bat like Haddin instead of Paine and they're good.

They have Carey, they are just waiting for Smith's ban to get over (About Captaincy) and Carey will be drafted in test team right away with Smith as captain.

[Austin 3:!6]

In India or subcontinent in general, people always remembers ICC performances more and rate players/captains based on it .

For example, Dravid is always remembered as a skipper under whom we got eliminated 1st round in the 2007 world cup. Few remember that we won the test series in England same year under him.

Dhoni is considered as a legendary skipper for his winnings in ICC & IPL tourneys but no one remembers about the overseas 8-0 test loss.

Kohli is considered a flop captain bcoz he is yet to win a world cup or IPL etc. No one calls him great skipper because he won us a test series in Australia.

 

We are a T20/ODI crazy country and fans like big sixes/ fast paced games etc.. Apart from few purists like us in the forum, not many care about test cricket.

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Austin 3:!6

[Suhaan]

Just now, Austin 3:!6 said:

In India or subcontinent in general, people always remembers ICC performances more and rate players/captains based on it .

For example, Dravid is always remembered as a skipper under whom we got eliminated 1st round in the 2007 world cup. Few remember that we won the test series in England same year under him.

Dhoni is considered as a legendary skipper for his winnings in ICC & IPL tourneys but no one remembers about the overseas test loses under him.

Kohli is considered a flop captain bcoz he is yet to win a world cup or IPL etc. No one calls him great skipper because he won us a test series in Australia.

 

We are a T20/ODI crazy country and fans like big sixes/ fast paced games etc.. Apart from few purists like us in the forum, not many care about test cricket.

 

No ,kohli is considered a good test captain ,his role to prioritise our pace attack and revolutionize fitness culture is worth laudation,his due respect is not given as he has faltered to deliver in Eng ,Sa ,when these sides were not as strong as they used to be in the past

He still can be regarded as Indias greatest captain if next year he repeats his success in Australia against a much stronger unit

[Ankit_sharma03]

20 hours ago, putrevus said:

What Kohli's detractors fail to understand, this team has come long way from Chandimal's match.It has shown improvement every series.It has become ruthless.To groom players you need talented players too, they tried to groom guys like Rahul and Pandya.

Rahul has been a top player in t20 why is he on bench for a failure like dhawan ?

Imagine if dhoni had sat kohli on bench for doing well in ODIs

Quote

It is not their fault they stunk.They choose Bumrah over Ishant when they could have easily gone with Ishant.Did they make any mistakes yes,they did but which team does not make those mistakes.

Why wud u select ishant he wasnt doing well that time

Quote

MMQB can be done against any result.Kohli is saddled with one of the worst battting groups.

As if he has dinesh mongia, rohan gavaskar, devang gandhi n all those players

Quote

He has resurrected the careers of Shami, Umesh and Ishant.He has made Indian bowling a force to reckon, he has laid ground work for this team to compete and win in any conditions.

How has resurrected their career

umesh was always a good bowler in Indian condition even under dhoni, nothing has changed. His problem was overseas n ODi and he still sucks in that 

 

Shami problem was fitness never skill, he gained fitness after being dropped with Desi regime not kohli style of fitness. If anything he got hard done by Kohli in Wc 

 

Ishant career was saved by county....he started doing well after going in county . Kohli has been captain since 2015 in test but ishant reuslt came in last 2 yrs post county. ishant problem was wrist position

Quote

If people have unreliastic expectations how is it his problem.To win world cups and overseas series you need great players too and luck.He needs some talented players .Who are those who have been left out?

 

 

India has the best pool of players in all country n history of Indian cricket.  

Edited December 3, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[Austin 3:!6]

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

No ,kohli is considered a good test captain ,his role to prioritise our pace attack and revolutionize fitness culture is worth laudation,his due respect is not given as he has faltered to deliver in Eng ,Sa ,when these sides were not as strong as they used to be in the past

He still can be regarded as Indias greatest captain if next year he repeats his success in Australia against a much stronger unit

That is something we know bcoz we follow the game's every nitigrities. But ask some random man on street or social media or fan girls, they view Kohli as a failed leader since he never won any IPL trophies.

[putrevus]

8 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Have you checked Kuldeep's average in LOIs? Why are you tying yourself in knots by shifting the goalposts in each argument?

 

Unmukt and Aparajith are where Kohli would have been if not for a supportive coach and captain who saw merit in picking him right after the u-19 WC.

 

Rest of the post will put to shame even Kohli's PR mafia

I don't have to tie myself in anything.You have no clue what you are talking about that is the problem Kuldeep was great initially just like Ajantha Mendis was and Mendis retired with career avg of 21 and 14 in LOIs/T20s.

Stats donot tell the whole story, Kuldeep was sorted out during IPL and had  so so league phase so he was dropped in semis.Stop bickering over it.

There is no point in discussing with guy like you who thinks Unmukt and Aparajith are/were on same level. Did  anyone stop them from doing what Mayank did?

 

Other than handling Dhoni , I don't think Kohli did much wrong as a captain.But when BCCI President himself is relucant to handle Dhoni, it shows how big Dhoni has become and how difficult it is to handle him.

Edited December 3, 2019 by putrevus

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

In India or subcontinent in general, people always remembers ICC performances more and rate players/captains based on it .

For example, Dravid is always remembered as a skipper under whom we got eliminated 1st round in the 2007 world cup. Few remember that we won the test series in England same year under him.

Dhoni is considered as a legendary skipper for his winnings in ICC & IPL tourneys but no one remembers about the overseas 8-0 test loss.

Kohli is considered a flop captain bcoz he is yet to win a world cup or IPL etc. No one calls him great skipper because he won us a test series in Australia.

 

We are a T20/ODI crazy country and fans like big sixes/ fast paced games etc.. Apart from few purists like us in the forum, not many care about test cricket.

 

Wrong, Kapil Dev won World Cup beating mighty WI and Ganguly did not win any ICC trophy outright atleast. But Kapil is not even considered when great captains  are spoken about even in India.Ganguly is somehow adored by both public and press as one of the great captains.

 

 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Rahul has been a top player in t20 why is he on bench for a failure like dhawan ?

Imagine if dhoni had sat kohli on bench for doing well in ODIs

Why wud u select ishant he wasnt doing well that time

As if he has dinesh mongia, rohan gavaskar, devang gandhi n all those players

How has resurrected their career

umesh was always a good bowler in Indian condition even under dhoni, nothing has changed. His problem was overseas n ODi and he still sucks in that 

 

Shami problem was fitness never skill, he gained fitness after being dropped with Desi regime not kohli style of fitness. If anything he got hard done by Kohli in Wc 

 

Ishant career was saved by county....he started doing well after going in county . Kohli has been captain since 2015 in test but ishant reuslt came in last 2 yrs post county. ishant problem was wrist position

India has the best pool of players in all country n history of Indian cricket.  

Kohli made his Test debut 3 years his odi debut and was promptly dropped after his failures in his first series.Rahul got chances in all formats and was persisted even after prolonged failured.Indian team is not his playground where Rahul as to be given chances in every format.

 

2018 Ishant was doing just fine and Bumrah was unknown entity and yet they selected Bumrah over Ishant.

 

Go and ask all the Indian fast bowlers what Kohli did to their careers.

 

India does not have one potential great middle order batsmen who can be great even in one format.India has best pool of players but how many of them are potenital great players .I dont see any after Gill.Shaw is not one of them.

 

Just like 

[Ankit_sharma03]

15 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Kohli made his Test debut 3 years his odi debut and was promptly dropped after his failures in his first series.Rahul got chances in all formats and was persisted even after prolonged failured.Indian team is not his playground where Rahul as to be given chances in every format.

Kohli was never dropped from squad.

Also stop changing the topic....i asked about t20. Rahul was dropped despite doing so well in t20 for a failure. 

Was kohli dropped for doing well or from odi coz he failed in test at start

Quote

2018 Ishant was doing just fine and Bumrah was unknown entity and yet they selected Bumrah over Ishant.

No ishant wasnt doing gr8

Quote

Go and ask all the Indian fast bowlers what Kohli did to their careers.

If i ask them about dhoni they ll same. Same ishat was ready to jump from 24th floodr

Quote

India does not have one potential great middle order batsmen who can be great even in one format.India has best pool of players but how many of them are potenital great players .I dont see any after Gill.Shaw is not one of them.

 

Just like 

As if gill got some good treatment

 

Potential gr8 players

Shaw

Gill

Rahul

Pant

Rahul chahar (another one wasted on bench)

Samson

Devdutt

Mavi

Pandya

Abhishek sharma

Siraj

 

 

These are just who can be potentially legend. I havent even begun on guys who can be potentially very good like kishen, sundar, shankar, mayank, iyer, ruturaj etc etc

Edited December 3, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Kohli was never dropped from squad.

Also stop changing the topic....i asked about t20. Rahil was dropped despite doing so well in t20 for a failure.

Was kohli dropped for doing well or from odi coz he failed in test at start

No ishant wasnt doing gr8

If i ask them about dhoni they ll same. Same ishat was ready to jump from 24th floodr

Potential gr8 players

Shaw

Gill

Rahul

Pant

Rahul chahar (another one wasted on bench)

Samson

Devdutt

Mavi

Pandya

Abhishek sharma

Siraj

 

 

These are just who can be potentially legend. I havent even begun on guys who can be potentially very good like kishen, sundar, shankar, mayank, iyer, ruturaj etc etc

He was dropped from test squad in 2011.Rahul is not lighting up anything anywhere for him to considered a must.

How is Rahul potenital  great player?? any player who plays 36 tests and avg in low thirties is potential  great in your books, in my book he stinks. I now know your definition of greatness, I don't need to go any further.

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He was dropped from test squad in 2011.Rahul is not lighting up anything anywhere for him to considered a must.

Have u seen his t20 Record ?? He has one of the best record for India . At same stage kohli was behind then him

Ru really justifying dhawan selection ??? has it worked ?? No

Were u really justifying bhuvi selection for batting??? Did it help us ?? No

Quote

How is Rahul potenital  great player?? any player who plays 36 tests and avg in low thirties is potential  great in your books, in my book he stinks. I now know your definition of greatness, I don't need to go any further.

What was Rohit n Yuvraj record till 70-80 games ??? Was Quite avg

Both are ODI greats now ....

 

Have u seen kallis record till 20-22 test just 30 avg . Avg of 36 can be changed in few good series....look at how ishant sharma stats are changing now. Neither players become gr8 in that many time nor they can be counted out

 

And what is ur definition of talent- fail in 2 games means no talent

Greats of career arent decided till someone career is over. 

 

Still whats the justification of dropping him t20 with such a great record coz he was failing in test ?

Edited December 3, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[ShoonyaSifar]

Haha this thread is a classic example of how not to do blind PR for players - shifting goalposts in every post! From calling every young player **** to defending Bhuvi's batting talent, Kudeep's destruction and Dhawan over Rahul in T20s. All this to prove Kohli's greatness as a leader when he's built ZERO legacy in nearly 5 years