By 2050, India will have world’s largest Muslim population

[Vilander]

On 12/12/2019 at 9:18 PM, Dil Dil India said:

Sure I will my dear sister. We will also vote together next time and travel on our Indian passports.

what do you mean dear sister etc  is that supposed to be a disrespect, do you think being a sister or a woman is inferior ?

 

vote together is not possible with an OCI card holder as they can not vote, that has been noted always but they are Indian. 

 

And why do you assume I can not vote lol ,  

 

what is your problem man ? you can not call a person having an OCI card non indian you get that ?

[Vilander]

On 12/13/2019 at 8:21 AM, Mariyam said:

What exactly is foreign in the works of Kabeer?  Or the generic Chisti philosophy of renunciation?

How do you view Hindustani classical Music? Or the tabla? Are they also Indianized foreign arts?

In my view, these can't be categorized into discrete boxes but are more or less a part of a continuous spectrum of ideas which are invariably interlinked.

 

Wrt to losing of demographic balance, there are 100 cr+ Hindus in India. And today, Hindus world over are a lot more assertive than they were say 50-100 years ago. Why the fear mongering? 

if Muslims can stops making 10 15 babies per woman that would be great too 

[MechEng]

@Mariyam take break from internet, your sanity will be saved.

[Gollum]

Terror attacks and communal riots imminent, that much is apparent based on events of the past week. Hope Bengali Hindus buckle up, they are very vulnerable. 

[someone]

17 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Terror attacks and communal riots imminent, that much is apparent based on events of the past week. Hope Bengali Hindus buckle up, they are very vulnerable. 

The fault lies in Hindu logic. From childhood, we have been told everyone is same, all gods are same,  respect everyone. Its good in theory but doesnt apply fairly in reality. This, we lack the shakti today and in the past.

 

 

[Ranvir]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Terror attacks and communal riots imminent, that much is apparent based on events of the past week. Hope Bengali Hindus buckle up, they are very vulnerable. 

I dont think they'll ever fight back. They're worse than western liberals.

[Mariyam]

On 12/13/2019 at 8:43 PM, coffee_rules said:

They are versions of monotheism trying to convince Hindus to forget difference, believe in one god Ishvar or Raam (replacing Allah), Indic philosophies believe in plurality and mutual respect for one another. Hence they are not native to region, not that if one believes in it , we should reject it.

Again, it is an art form that got morphed into something unIndic, because art is popular because of the connoisseur, art forms change over times, nothing wrong, but a case of coopted art.

Art form, aesthetics impacts are harmless if they are morphed, coopted etc, but in case of philosophies, faith, culture, it is dangerous , as it affects our way of life. That is when we feel ‘hum khatre main hain’

When we have lo0% of the land, our people have been converted, persecuted, genocided and ethnically cleansed, the rest 100 cr can’t afford to sit around feeling happy. Look what happened to Kashmir, where 70 years of bad siasat have made us refugees in our own land, when liberals keep putting us down showing our weaknesses , despite reforming , there is a point where we tip. When Marxist Historians write false history to show a narrative where kids think we are a bunch of losers letting invaders with no fight back, that is when we feel threatened. Why do you think Modi is seen as a savior of the masses?

 

What is a version of monotheism? 

Kabeer, for example questioned rituals in both Islam and Hinduism. Sikh Holy Book(s) have some of Kabeer's couplets. Does that make Sikhism less Indic?

 

I am not sure what you and @Muloghonto are trying to get at here. 

You dismiss art forms, but they are significant influences on people of the era in shaping perspectives. Doesn't that affect philosophy?

 

Are you guys trying to say that anything Islamic and even remotely associated with strain of Islamic thought is foreign to Indian Indic culture?

[Muloghonto]

33 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

What is a version of monotheism? 

Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism are the various versions of it.

33 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Kabeer, for example questioned rituals in both Islam and Hinduism. Sikh Holy Book(s) have some of Kabeer's couplets. Does that make Sikhism less Indic?

Kabir, like Rumi are absolute nobodies in the actual theological discourse of Islam. A few erudite whisky-sipping agnostic Muslims may find them interesting or a showcase of their liberalism, much like Nehruvian Hindus but they have a sum total of zero impact on Islamic schools, madrassashs and mosques to propagate Islam.

33 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

 

I am not sure what you and @Muloghonto are trying to get at here. 

That Islam is a cancer to our society and we need to erase Islam systematically from people’s brains. 

33 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

You dismiss art forms, but they are significant influences on people of the era in shaping perspectives. Doesn't that affect philosophy?

I don’t dismiss art forms at all. I dismiss disingenuous nonsense such as trying not to paint a few oddball Muslims like Kabir to have any decisive influence outside of a few handful erudite Muslims. He means ZERO to 99.9% muslims worldwide and in India and his teachings mean ZERO. 

33 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

 

Are you guys trying to say that anything Islamic and even remotely associated with strain of Islamic thought is foreign to Indian Indic culture?

Yes. We don’t do absolutist monotheism, never have and that is the core foreign essence of Islam. 

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Yes. We don’t do absolutist monotheism, never have and that is the core foreign essence of Islam. 

But apparently you "do" absolutist just fine.  

 

Being provocative is one thing, being bigoted is another. At the end of the day, Islam is just another faith - a lot of religions - I'd say all of them, have their share of kooky sh**t.  Key is for the adherents to conduct themselves in tune with the current day morality.  I do not accept that denigrating and insulting people's faith is the solution.  

 

Maybe its true - within the hearts of all wussy Bongs, there lurks a wannabe commie - probably inspired by the CCP's treatment of the uighurs, you want to 'talk tough' on the interwebs.  

Edited December 17, 2019 by sandeep

[Muloghonto]

8 minutes ago, sandeep said:

But apparently you "do" absolutist just fine.  

Everyone does absolutist something. So yes, I am absolutely 100% anti Islam. 

 

However when it comes to religion or philosophy,like my ancestors, I am not an absolutist at all.

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Being provocative is one thing, being bigoted is another. At the end of the day, Islam is just another faith - a lot of religions - I'd say all of them, have their share of kooky sh**t.  Key is for the adherents to conduct themselves in tune with the current day morality.  I do not accept that denigrating and insulting people's faith is the solution.  

All ideologies and religions have imperfections. That does not make genocidal and cancerous ideologies like Nazism or Islam bat on the same playing field as humanism or Jainism. 

The ‘ all ideologies are imperfect so they are all equal’ is a nonsense spouted only by liberals when it comes to Islam. Use same logic for Nazism and liberals shrivel up and go insane. 

 

I am not denigrating all faiths or faith in general. I am singling out the ones that are absolutely toxic and harmful to them everyone on the outside: Nazism, Islam and Guevaraism are three categoric is samples of singling out ideologies that deserve to be irradicated. 

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Maybe its true - within the hearts of all wussy Bongs, there lurks a wannabe commie - probably inspired by the CCP's treatment of the uighurs, you want to 'talk tough' on the interwebs.  

We hindu bongs are also the ones who taught the rest of the country how to actually violently protest. Perhaps you can call us extreme people: we either put up with extreme nonsense or we go apeshit violent when we’ve had enough.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Muloghonto

[sandeep]

11 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

The ‘ all ideologies are imperfect so they are all equal’ is a nonsense spouted only by liberals when it comes to Islam. Use same logic for Nazism and liberals shrivel up and go insane. 

I'm not interested in grading ideologies or faiths, nor did I claim they are all equal  - I'm saying that I'm more concerned with a person's actions than the name of the faith they profess to follow.  

12 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

We hindu bongs are also the ones who taught the rest of the country how to actually violently protest. Perhaps you can call us extreme people: we either put up with extreme nonsense or we go apeshit violent when we’ve had enough.

Yeah taught how to 'lose' you sad bunch of Mir Jaffer subjects.   If "hindu bongs" were so good at protesting, they wouldn't have lost more than half of United Bengal.  

[Muloghonto]

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I'm not interested in grading ideologies or faiths, nor did I claim they are all equal  - I'm saying that I'm more concerned with a person's actions than the name of the faith they profess to follow.  

So you are not interested in grading Nazism as an F ?  What about ideologies that sanction slavery ? Good to know.  I am.

 

peoples actions matter individually. I am not after people. Ideas matter for the collective. I am after ideas. 

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Yeah taught how to 'lose' you sad bunch of Mir Jaffer subjects.   If "hindu bongs" were so good at protesting, they wouldn't have lost more than half of United Bengal.  

You duffer, it’s a fact that no Indian province saw as much revolutionary bloodshed as Bengal. We gave India Bose. Who else is on the same playing field as him when it comes to leading armed resistance ??

 

we lost 75% of Bengal only because Shyama Prasad Mukherjee insisted that partition be done on district by district basis instead of province by province basis as Nehru wanted, since it’d have meant trading all of Bengal for all of Punjab. You are welcome by the way. As usual, a bong had to lead the way

[sandeep]

8 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

So you are not interested in grading Nazism as an F ?  What about ideologies that sanction slavery ? Good to know.  I am.

There you go again, mixing ideology with religion.  Btw, lots of religions sanction slavery - including Christianity and Hinduism.  

 

8 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

We gave India Bose.

Oh you mean Hitler and Japan's pet cuck, the wannabe brown Mussolini?  What did he achieve other than getting brave volunteers killed? "Chalo Delhi" indeed.  Couldn't get past Imphal.  Strutting around in Berlin and Singapore did f(**k-all.  Its what he achieved that counts.  Which was what exactly?

 

If not for Gandhi's direct intervention, all of Calcutta would have been empited out and Islamized in the Direct action days.  Bongs got saved by a senile half-dead gujju grampa.  Else you'd either be dead thanks to PakMil, or converted and sewing textiles out in Chittagong somewhere.

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by sandeep

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

There you go again, mixing ideology with religion.  Btw, lots of religions sanction slavery - including Christianity and Hinduism.  

Hinduism doesn’t sanction slavery. It mentions slavery to’ve existed in itihaasas.

religions and ideologies are the same. Blaming your ideology on imaginary God doesn’t change it from being an ideology.

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

Oh you mean Hitler and Japan's pet cuck, the wannabe brown Mussolini?  What did he achieve other than getting brave volunteers killed? "Chalo Delhi" indeed. 

Couldn't get past Imphal.  Strutting around in Berlin and Singapore did f(**k-all.  Its what he achieved that counts.  Which was what exactly?

Brilliant. So when we do nothing, we are cucks. When we do something and become the only people with balls to physically fight the imperial power, we are still cucks. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. 

If Bose’s achievements don’t count, then no Indians’ count in freedom struggle. 

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

If not for Gandhi's direct intervention, all of Calcutta would have been empited out and Islamized in the Direct action days.  Bongs got saved by a senile half-dead gujju grampa.  Else you'd either be dead thanks to PakMil, or converted and sewing textiles out in Chittagong somewhere.

 

Only if Shyama Prasad’s idea didn’t bend the Brits to district by district partition. Gandhi’s ability to save Bong Hindus was pretty identical to Modi saving Bong Hindus right now by saying a few words. Which is zero.

 

anyways, stop derailing thread topic by deflecting to Bongs. Make a new topic and I will be happy so school you there, okay, SADneep ?? 

[coffee_rules]

16 hours ago, Mariyam said:

What is a version of monotheism? 

Kabeer, for example questioned rituals in both Islam and Hinduism. Sikh Holy Book(s) have some of Kabeer's couplets. Does that make Sikhism less Indic?

 

I am not sure what you and @Muloghonto are trying to get at here. 

You dismiss art forms, but they are significant influences on people of the era in shaping perspectives. Doesn't that affect philosophy?

Why do you bring in art forms in philosophical issues? They keep morphing based on the culture and how open-minded the people are. Today, I cannot sit and watch a Bharatanatyam performance praising the life of Jesus. But many are open-minded and are ok. But don't tell me to accept it is an Indic art form. It is foreign and a case of digestion. Kabir for all his works is followed more by Hindus/Seculars, while Muslims have not. I have never heard a moderate Muslim quote Kabir and say he was good for Islamic reform. Same with Saibaba. I don’t think any Muslim considers Shirdi Saibaba as somebody who can be worshipped. Muslims don’t consider anybody but Allah as worthy of worship.

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Are you guys trying to say that anything Islamic and even remotely associated with strain of Islamic thought is foreign to Indian Indic culture?

Yes, Hindus allowed all idealogies to nurish in India before the 7th century. All of them came to the region (Parsis, Jews, Greeks, Kushanas, etc) were not persecuted, they practiced their religion with full freedom, only thing they were told was not to do gau-hatya. They all assimilated and didn't force their beliefs. The advent of Islam in Sindh changed the whole thing about respecting plurality. Mohd Bin Qasim introduced a predatory violent religion that believed in force and doesn't believe in respecting other idealogies and forced their religion on others. The whole region was converted. I believe Persia took like 15 years to totally turn Islam. Then came the Khiljis, Ghoris  and others who believed in Iconoclasm and destroyed temples of worship. Moghuls were not far behind in forced conversions starting from Babar to Aurangzeb. The worst were Pathans/Pashtuns in Kashmir. You should read about how Islam came into Kashmir. Sufis came about in the region in peace and settled in the kingdom. A mere commander in an Army from the Swat area took refuge in the kingdom and he revolted against the king who gave him asylum and the sufis in the region turned into an army to invade kashmir and bring in Islam to the region. Many Sufi orders were very violent. All this peace sufism talk is a front to influence people to a newer faith and then comes the armies.

 

Hindus singing "Chaap Tilak sab cheenli mose naina milake" don't know it is a conversion song. It is not about devotion to the lover at all, but normalizing and romanticizing something that we now call it as Love Jihad, I go to a party and listen to all Hindus wah-wahing to such songs and shayaris that are demeaning for non-believers. 

 

 We believed in debates before accepting the other  ideology and not by violence. I don't believe that Islam or any new thoughts from that religion/faith is remotely close to what our ancestors believed. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

6 hours ago, sandeep said:

There you go again, mixing ideology with religion.  Btw, lots of religions sanction slavery - including Christianity and Hinduism.  

Lets talk about Hinduism. Don't bring in caste system, it started as something different. In which shastra/text do you see dharma preaching another person can be owned as a property? Que for lame rod to go ape-shite-crazy on rig-veda translations from western padres!

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Oh you mean Hitler and Japan's pet cuck, the wannabe brown Mussolini?  What did he achieve other than getting brave volunteers killed? "Chalo Delhi" indeed.  Couldn't get past Imphal.  Strutting around in Berlin and Singapore did f(**k-all.  Its what he achieved that counts.  Which was what exactly?

For all Bose's failures, his way of freedom struggle was way more effective than any other leaders'. He would have been the INC President if not for Nehru whinning to Gandhi who went on a fast if Bose accepted the role. He was the first PM of India when he landed in Andaman and hoisted the tri-color in 1945. His achievement was that because of this advancements of INA, when post-war trials were held in 1946, the navy revolted in Bombay and the Army too. That was the real reason for what we celebrate as Independence. Atlee himself said in his Interview in Kolkata  in the 60s.

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If not for Gandhi's direct intervention, all of Calcutta would have been empited out and Islamized in the Direct action days.  Bongs got saved by a senile half-dead gujju grampa.  Else you'd either be dead thanks to PakMil, or converted and sewing textiles out in Chittagong somewhere.

 

Gandhi did squat to save Hindus from any region. He did nothing for the Malabar Hindus who were massacred during Khilafat movement. He even told Hindus to not fight back and sacrifice lives to new era of peace ruled by Islam. How did he save Hindus after Direct Action day on Aug 15th 1946 called by Jinnah? A few khokle sound bytes doesn’t mean he was the reason. Violence from DA day went to till Jun 1947 when Congress relented to agree for partition. The half-clad fakir did zilch for saving Hindu asses. Don't call me a Godse-bhakt either, as I don't believe in violence, but I can connect to what Godse  was feeling at that time. Most Hindus do, except a few "woke" ones.

 

I hate the false Bengali pride more than anybody else, but they were the most impacted by the freedom struggle or partition. After all they were Hindus and them getting staffed by Muslims is not a  matter of ridicule.  We should feel sorry because if not for their defiance, the whole region would be Islamasized.

Edited December 18, 2019 by coffee_rules

[sandeep]

@coffee_rules Bhai, you seem to have missed the .  

[coffee_rules]

18 minutes ago, sandeep said:

@coffee_rules Bhai, you seem to have missed the .  

My sarchasm meter is down, bhrata. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by coffee_rules

[Gollum]

Sufi orders and non-violence ,someone should do reading about Sikandar Butshikan, Islamization of Kashmir and role of Sufis. Not sold on Moinuddin Chisti either. Respect Kabir but let's be honest here, how many Muslims care for his teachings?

 

Coming to the role of Sufis the entire Chechen jihad saga has been going on for decades, done by those who believe in the Sufi way of life. Sufism and fundamentalism go hand in hand in that region, next time someone wants to explain how great Sufism is do that to the 400 parents of kids butchered in Beslan school siege in 2004. Do some digging about the background of perpetrators there. Sufi Islam is the Trojan Horse to pave the entry of actual Islam.....in medieval era there were more Sufis deployed in India because of the demographics problem (massacres and forced conversion were exhausting and too capital-intensive beyond a point), stupid dharmics (mainly Hindus) were the naive sheep. Moinuddin Chisti came along with Ghori and his intention was to help the invading forces, a tragedy that Hindus flock to his shrine which attracted fanatic dharmic killing Delhi Sultans 7 centuries ago. Today Owaisi says he is Sufi, but still a teletubby compared to Kashmiri 'sufi' separatists. Don't be swayed by Sufi vs Salafi, Shia vs Sunni etc....when it comes to kafirs all are on the same page.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Gollum

[Gollum]

The Sinister Side of Sufism

 

Sufism in India – A bloodied History

 

No Peace, Only Pieces – The Sufi Mission in Kashmir!

 

Does India need Sufism?

 

Stop normalizing BS. Shame on low IQ Hindus who throng these shrines and can't look beyond Sufi music. History has become a casualty as most of us have been brainwashed into accepting the fake narrative of Hindu-Muslim unity in medieval/modern era. Peace, harmony, spirituality my ass.....I respect Salafis more because at least they are direct about their objectives, and practice Islam the way it was in 7th century Arabia, the pure version. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Gollum