zen Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) A hypothetical matchup of epic proportions. While the stakes are high, let me get the point out of the way that these are not the greatest of ATG sides because of reasons including: Many of the ATG players have played as a group for an extended period (batsmen for Ind and bowlers for Pak), but they have not had the desired AT team level impact. For e.g. when WI, Aus, and SA had many of their ATG level players playing together, they dominated more relatively The teams have struggled overseas even with their relatively strongest 11s in general. Pak particularly in Australia Assume sporting conditions and a neutral venue like say Aus (Not many wants to play cricket in Pak at the moment. And Ind may not allow the hypothetical series to be played in Ind) IND AT 11 Gavaskar - undisputed World ATG 11 opener Sehwag - revolutionized test opening with his legendary high SR batting. Has 100s in Aus (some great performances), Eng, Pak (Bradmanesque performances), SA, SL (again great performances when others struggled), and WI Pujara - Solid performer. Again has a great record in Aus (ATG level performance) .... or Amarnath Tendulkar Kohli Dravid Pant Kapil - good performances in Aus (and in WI) Shami - (good 4th inning record) Bumrah Chandra (or Gupte. Ind's top performing spinners in most conditions) Sehwag and Tendulkar can bowl spin to combine as 5-6th bowlers .... Amaranth, if playing, can bowl too PAK AT 11 Anwar Hanif Majid (popular on ICF, but feel free to replace him with a player of your choice) Javed Abbas Inzi WK of your choice Imran Akram Saqlain Waqar Most of the bowlers and batsmen have played together in the past but as a team, Pak has not dominated as it would have liked to and underachieved as mentioned before esp. in countries like Aus Edited February 22, 2020 by zen
sandeep Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, zen said: Pujara - Solid performer. Again has a great record in Aus (ATG level performance) * off with your gujju bias. Come on now. Nikola, retired_hurt and coffee_rules 1 2
kohli Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) Sunny viru dravid sachin kohli vvs/ pujara dhoni kapil shami zaheer kumble vs anwar hanif younis inzi javed yousuf wk( anyone ) imran wasim waqar saqi indian batting >>pak batting indian bowling <<<pak bowling. 55-45 in pak favor Edited February 21, 2020 by kohli
zen Posted February 21, 2020 Author Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, sandeep said: * off with your gujju bias. Come on now. View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Opposition team Australia or England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 5000 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 12 of 12 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 V Kohli 2011-2020 81 137 10 6812 254* 53.63 25 22 9 SM Gavaskar 1971-1987 125 214 16 10122 236* 51.12 34 45 12 SR Tendulkar 1989-2013 184 306 28 14183 241* 51.01 43 65 13 R Dravid 1996-2012 147 261 27 11726 270 50.11 30 57 6 V Sehwag 2001-2013 96 168 4 8151 319 49.70 23 28 16 CA Pujara 2010-2020 72 120 7 5470 206* 48.40 18 20 7 VVS Laxman 1996-2012 125 213 32 8384 281 46.32 16 55 14 M Azharuddin 1984-2000 96 143 9 6156 199 45.94 22 21 5 DB Vengsarkar 1976-1992 116 185 22 6868 166 42.13 17 35 15 GR Viswanath 1969-1983 91 155 10 6080 222 41.93 14 35 10 SC Ganguly 1996-2008 99 169 16 6311 239 41.24 13 31 12 N Kapil Dev 1978-1994 129 182 15 5172 163 30.97 8 26 16
Gollum Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) Depends whether we have: chucking bottle caps ball biting pitch dancing neutral umpiring Edited February 21, 2020 by Gollum sandeep and nevada 2
zen Posted February 21, 2020 Author Posted February 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Pant in AT.? View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Opposition team Australia or England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Wicketkeeper as designated wicketkeeper Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 9 of 9 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 RR Pant 2018-2020 12 19 2 764 159* 44.94 2 2 1 MS Dhoni 2005-2014 87 140 14 4683 224 37.16 6 31 10 BK Kunderan 1960-1967 15 28 3 831 192 33.24 2 3 1 PA Patel 2002-2018 25 38 8 934 71 31.13 0 6 4 FM Engineer 1961-1975 46 87 3 2611 121 31.08 2 16 7 WP Saha 2012-2019 32 44 7 1061 117 28.67 2 5 5 SMH Kirmani 1976-1986 88 124 22 2759 102 27.04 2 12 7 KS More 1986-1993 48 63 14 1244 73 25.38 0 7 7 NR Mongia 1994-2001 43 66 8 1441 152 24.84 1 6 5 Rasgulla 1
Jimmy Cliff Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 UAE Khan is well ahead of Majid. The gap between Ind batting and Pak batting (especially in subcontinent conditions) isn't as big as the gap between their bowling and ours (even after taking into account all the hanky panky with ball tampering). Since Tests are almost always won by the team with the stronger bowling attack Pakistan has the edge for now. We need another couple of Bumrah level pacers to be considered a better AT XI.
sandeep Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, zen said: Ah, Present day Sri Lanka and West Indies. Such quality opponents to measure performances by. By that standard Hardik Pandya should be an automatic starter for the ATG team - hey he scored 80+ in SA, and has a 5-fer in England. You are giving out slots in ATG XI like there's a discount on Jalebi Ghaanthiyaa at the "sweets/farsaan mart" on the corner - Banjo everywhere in Gujjustaan you turn our head - I'll be damned if you don't see at least 2 "sweets/farsaan" dukaan within 100 meters. Maybe more.
sandeep Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 22 minutes ago, zen said: Seriously speaking, VVS at #6, Dravid at #3. Pujara's nowhere close to ATG XI selection. nevada and Cricspin 1 1
zen Posted February 21, 2020 Author Posted February 21, 2020 Just now, sandeep said: Ah, Present day Sri Lanka and West Indies. Such quality opponents to measure performances by. By that standard Hardik Pandya should be an automatic starter for the ATG team - hey he scored 80+ in SA, and has a 5-fer in England. You are giving out slots in ATG XI like there's a discount on Jalebi Ghaanthiyaa at the "sweets/farsaan mart" on the corner - Banjo everywhere in Gujjustaan you turn our head - I'll be damned if you don't see at least 2 "sweets/farsaan" dukaan within 100 meters. Maybe more. If I were, I would have included Pandya (like you said), More/Mongia/Parthiv, Jadeja, Munaf, Ghavri, etc, so on .... Bumrah plays for one of the 3 Guj Ranji teams but he is good much like Pujara is. Zak also played for Baroda .... Have not included any of these sandeep 1
zen Posted February 21, 2020 Author Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, sandeep said: Seriously speaking, VVS at #6, Dravid at #3. Pujara's nowhere close to ATG XI selection. With the emergence of Pujara and Kohli, players such as VVS, Hazare, etc. are on their way out of AT11. If we remove Pujara (at this point), he would be replaced by someone like Amarnath in my book Also I used to hype Kapil in the past as he made the team "appear" competitive on paper, but if he is not batting well, can be replaced by Srinath or Zak Edited February 21, 2020 by zen
Nikola Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 All All time XI teams should have players playing at their own spot. If they are playing at other spot then their record of that spot should be considered not overall record. Better play player who has performed well at that spot. Rasgulla 1
sandeep Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, zen said: With the emergence of Pujara and Kohli, players such as VVS, Hazare, etc. are on their way out of AT11. If we remove Pujara (at this point), he would be replaced by someone like Amarnath in my book Also I used to hype Kapil in the past as he made the team "appear" competitive on paper, but if he is not batting well, can be replaced by Srinath or Zak Zak replacing Kapil is - I don't have words. Taking both at their prime, its no contest. Come on now
coffee_rules Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 @zen AT 11s are not based on Statsguru searches. You set a min no of tests even in that case. 12 tests is way too small for sample size, plus you need to read or follow what experts say. They would have seen or read about the great players. In my opinion, Pant , Pujara are not deserving to be listed in AT11. Here’s my team, Gavaskar, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Hazare, Mankad, Kirmani, Kapil Dev, Kumble, Srinath, Prasanna Hanif, Majid, ZaheerAbbas, Miandad,,Inzimam, Younis, Imran, WasimBari, Akram, Qadir. Waqar,
zen Posted February 21, 2020 Author Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Gavaskar, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Hazare, Mankad, Kirmani, Kapil Dev, Kumble, Srinath, Prasanna Why would you play only 2 pacers in sporting conditions and that too at a neutral venue like Aus .... Read the OP How many games has Kumble won us overseas vs top sides in his relatively long career? In Ind on turning pitches, I can play any of the top spinners to get the desired effect Quote Hanif, Majid, ZaheerAbbas, Miandad,,Inzimam, Younis, Imran, WasimBari, Akram, Qadir. Waqar, Qadir?! .... On turning tracks, Pak could also play Saqlain, etc., .... Edited February 21, 2020 by zen
zen Posted February 21, 2020 Author Posted February 21, 2020 I have voted for Ind. Guys like Sehwag can single handedly take Pak out of equation
First class Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, zen said: A hypothetical matchup of epic proportions. While the stakes are high, let me get the point out of the way that these are not the greatest of ATG sides because of reasons including: Many of the ATG players have played as a group for an extended period (batsmen for Ind and bowlers for Pak), but they have not had the desired AT team level impact. For e.g. when WI, Aus, and SA had many of their ATG level players playing together, they dominated more relatively The teams have struggled overseas even with their relatively strongest 11s in general. Pak particularly in Australia Assume sporting conditions and a neutral venue like say Aus (Not many wants to play cricket in Pak at the moment. And Ind may not allow the hypothetical series to be played in Ind)? IND AT 11 Gavaskar - undisputed World ATG 11 opener Sehwag - revolutionized test opening with his legendary high SR batting. Has 100s in Aus (some great performances), Eng, Pak (Bradmanesque performances), SA, SL (again great performances when others struggled), and WI Pujara - Solid performer. Again has a great record in Aus (ATG level performance) Tendulkar Kohli Dravid Pant Kapil - good performances in Aus (and in WI) Shami - (good 4th inning record) Bumrah Chandra (or Gupte. Ind's top performing spinners in most conditions) Sehwag and Tendulkar can bowl spin to combine as 5th bowlers PAK AT 11 Anwar Hanif Majid (popular on ICF, but feel free to replace him with a player of your choice) Javed Abbas Inzi WK of your choice Imran Akram Saqlain Waqar Most of the bowlers and batsmen have played together but as a team, Pak has underachieved as mentioned before This would be my AT Pak 11 Majid Hanif Abbas Miandad Inzimam Imran ( C ) Wasim Akram Qadir Waqar Saqi Akhtar Anwar was a good opener but not even close to Majid's class With IK in the side , you don;t need a 6th batsman and to beat India , Pakistan has to be at it strongest in Bowling, with 5 bowlers.
zen Posted February 21, 2020 Author Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, First class said: This would be my AT Pak 11 Majid Hanif Abbas Miandad Inzimam Imran ( C ) Wasim Akram Qadir Waqar Saqi Akhtar Anwar was a good opener but not even close to Majid's class With IK in the side , you don;t need a 6th batsman and to beat India , Pakistan has to be at it strongest in Bowling, with 5 bowlers. Note that Ind bowlers in AT11 have better record than Pak bowlers in Aus: View overall figures [change view] Primary team India or Pakistan Host country Australia Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 15 Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 16 of 16 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 JJ Bumrah (INDIA) 2018-2019 4 8 943 357 21 6/33 9/86 17.00 2.27 44.9 1 0 Wasim Akram (PAK) 1990-1999 9 15 2091 866 36 6/62 11/160 24.05 2.48 58.0 3 1 N Kapil Dev (INDIA) 1981-1992 11 21 3137 1254 51 8/106 8/109 24.58 2.39 61.5 5 0 Imran Khan (PAK) 1976-1990 13 20 3038 1283 45 6/63 12/165 28.51 2.53 67.5 3 1 KD Ghavri (INDIA) 1977-1981 6 11 1214 641 21 5/107 7/138 30.52 3.16 57.8 1 0 Mohammed Shami (INDIA) 2014-2019 7 14 1579 956 31 6/56 6/136 30.83 3.63 50.9 2 0 Sarfraz Nawaz (PAK) 1972-1984 12 22 3854 1573 50 9/86 11/125 31.46 2.44 77.0 1 1 AB Agarkar (INDIA) 1999-2004 7 13 1577 947 27 6/41 8/160 35.07 3.60 58.4 1 0 Z Khan (INDIA) 2003-2012 7 11 1450 877 25 5/95 7/130 35.08 3.62 58.0 1 0 RF Surti (INDIA) 1967-1968 4 7 940 528 15 5/74 6/161 35.20 3.37 62.6 1 0 M Prabhakar (INDIA) 1991-1992 5 10 1523 680 19 5/101 6/217 35.78 2.67 80.1 1 0 Azeem Hafeez (PAK) 1983-1984 5 7 1173 733 19 5/100 7/217 38.57 3.74 61.7 2 0 Shoaib Akhtar (PAK) 1999-2005 6 10 1023 740 17 5/99 6/121 43.52 4.34 60.1 2 0 UT Yadav (INDIA) 2011-2018 8 14 1641 1238 27 5/93 7/176 45.85 4.52 60.7 1 0 I Sharma (INDIA) 2008-2018 13 23 2727 1505 31 4/41 6/155 48.54 3.31 87.9 0 0 J Srinath (INDIA) 1991-2000 8 15 1963 1014 20 4/130 4/175 50.70 3.09 98.1 0 0 Even batsmen: View overall figures [change view] Primary team India or Pakistan Host country Australia Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 300 and batting average greater than or equal to 43 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 21 of 21 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 4s 6s SM Patil (INDIA) 1981-1981 3 6 1 311 174 62.20 1 1 0 37 1 RR Pant (INDIA) 2018-2019 4 7 1 350 159* 58.33 1 0 0 31 5 MAK Pataudi (INDIA) 1967-1968 3 6 0 339 85 56.50 0 4 0 44 1 RJ Shastri (INDIA) 1985-1992 6 7 0 391 206 55.85 1 0 0 31 2 M Amarnath (INDIA) 1977-1986 8 13 1 668 138 55.66 2 3 2 50 0 CA Pujara (INDIA) 2014-2019 7 13 0 722 193 55.53 3 2 1 76 2 V Kohli (INDIA) 2011-2019 12 23 0 1274 169 55.39 6 3 2 142 3 SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 1991-2012 20 38 4 1809 241* 53.20 6 7 3 209 7 DG Phadkar (INDIA) 1947-1948 4 8 2 314 123 52.33 1 3 1 34 0 Azhar Ali (PAK) 2016-2019 5 10 1 468 205* 52.00 1 2 0 49 0 SM Gavaskar (INDIA) 1977-1986 11 19 1 920 172 51.11 5 1 2 97 0 Younis Khan (PAK) 2004-2017 6 12 1 557 175* 50.63 1 2 1 60 3 VS Hazare (INDIA) 1947-1948 5 10 1 429 145 47.66 2 1 0 47 0 V Sehwag (INDIA) 2003-2012 10 20 0 948 195 47.40 2 4 2 122 8 RF Surti (INDIA) 1967-1968 4 8 0 367 70 45.87 0 4 0 34 0 GR Viswanath (INDIA) 1977-1981 8 15 0 686 114 45.73 1 5 0 68 0 Asif Iqbal (PAK) 1964-1979 9 17 2 681 152* 45.40 3 1 2 78 4 M Vijay (INDIA) 2014-2018 6 12 0 531 144 44.25 1 4 2 57 6 VVS Laxman (INDIA) 1999-2012 15 29 1 1236 178 44.14 4 4 2 165 0 AM Rahane (INDIA) 2014-2019 8 15 1 616 147 44.00 1 4 1 70 3 R Dravid (INDIA) 1999-2012 15 30 4 1143 233 43.96 1 6 1 133 2
Ankit_sharma03 Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) Quote PAK AT 11 Anwar Hanif Majid (popular on ICF, but feel free to replace him with a player of your choice) Javed Abbas Inzi WK of your choice Imran Akram Saqlain Waqar Most of the bowlers and batsmen have played together but as a team, Pak has underachieved as mentioned before why no akthar ....he was always damn good in australia No younis khan??? the guy was nightmare for our bowlers.... Edited February 21, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03
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