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Ind AT 11 vs Pak AT 11 (Tests)


zen

Ind vs Pak (in sporting conditions)  

9 members have voted

  1. 1. 1. Which team holds the edge?



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Posted (edited)

A hypothetical matchup of epic proportions. While the stakes are high, let me get the point out of the way that these are not the greatest of ATG sides because of reasons including: 

  • Many of the ATG players have played as a group for an extended period (batsmen for Ind and bowlers for Pak), but they have not had the desired AT team level impact. For e.g. when WI, Aus, and SA had many of their ATG level players playing together, they dominated more relatively 
  • The teams have struggled overseas even with their relatively strongest 11s in general. Pak particularly in Australia

 

Assume sporting conditions and a neutral venue like say Aus (Not many wants to play cricket in Pak at the moment. And Ind may not allow the hypothetical series to be played in Ind)

 

IND AT 11

 

  • Gavaskar - undisputed World ATG 11 opener
  • Sehwag - revolutionized test opening with his legendary high SR batting. Has 100s in Aus (some great performances), Eng, Pak (Bradmanesque performances), SA, SL (again great performances when others struggled), and WI 
  • Pujara - Solid performer. Again has a great record in Aus (ATG level performance) .... or Amarnath
  • Tendulkar
  • Kohli
  • Dravid
  • Pant 
  • Kapil - good performances in Aus (and in WI)
  • Shami - (good 4th inning record)
  • Bumrah
  • Chandra (or Gupte. Ind's top performing spinners in most conditions) 

 

  • Sehwag and Tendulkar can bowl spin to combine as 5-6th bowlers .... Amaranth, if playing, can bowl too 

 

 

PAK AT 11 

 

  • Anwar
  • Hanif
  • Majid (popular on ICF, but feel free to replace him with a player of your choice)
  • Javed
  • Abbas
  • Inzi
  • WK of your choice 
  • Imran
  • Akram
  • Saqlain
  • Waqar

 

  • Most of the bowlers and batsmen have played together in the past but as a team, Pak has not dominated as it would have liked to and underachieved as mentioned before esp. in countries like Aus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by zen
Posted (edited)

Sunny 

viru 

dravid 

sachin 

kohli 

vvs/ pujara 

dhoni 

kapil 

shami 

zaheer 

kumble 

 

vs

anwar

hanif

younis

inzi

javed

yousuf

wk( anyone )

imran 

wasim 

waqar

saqi

indian batting >>pak batting 

indian bowling <<<pak bowling.

55-45 in pak favor 

Edited by kohli
Posted
1 minute ago, sandeep said:

* off with your gujju bias.  Come on now.

:dontknow:

 

 

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Primary team India remove India from query
Opposition team Australia remove Australia from query or England remove England from query or India remove India from query or New Zealand remove New Zealand from query or Pakistan remove Pakistan from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query or Sri Lanka remove Sri Lanka from query or West Indies remove West Indies from query
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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending 100 50 0  
V Kohli 2011-2020 81 137 10 6812 254* 53.63 25 22 9 investigate this query
SM Gavaskar 1971-1987 125 214 16 10122 236* 51.12 34 45 12 investigate this query
SR Tendulkar 1989-2013 184 306 28 14183 241* 51.01 43 65 13 investigate this query
R Dravid 1996-2012 147 261 27 11726 270 50.11 30 57 6 investigate this query
V Sehwag 2001-2013 96 168 4 8151 319 49.70 23 28 16 investigate this query
CA Pujara 2010-2020 72 120 7 5470 206* 48.40 18 20 7 investigate this query
VVS Laxman 1996-2012 125 213 32 8384 281 46.32 16 55 14 investigate this query
M Azharuddin 1984-2000 96 143 9 6156 199 45.94 22 21 5 investigate this query
DB Vengsarkar 1976-1992 116 185 22 6868 166 42.13 17 35 15 investigate this query
GR Viswanath 1969-1983 91 155 10 6080 222 41.93 14 35 10 investigate this query
SC Ganguly 1996-2008 99 169 16 6311 239 41.24 13 31 12 investigate this query
N Kapil Dev 1978-1994 129 182 15 5172 163 30.97 8 26 16 investigate this query
Posted
3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Pant in AT.? 

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Primary team India remove India from query
Opposition team Australia remove Australia from query or England remove England from query or India remove India from query or New Zealand remove New Zealand from query or Pakistan remove Pakistan from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query or Sri Lanka remove Sri Lanka from query or West Indies remove West Indies from query
Wicketkeeper as designated wicketkeeper remove as designated wicketkeeper from query
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500 remove runs scored greater than or equal to 500 from query
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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending 100 50 0  
RR Pant 2018-2020 12 19 2 764 159* 44.94 2 2 1 investigate this query
MS Dhoni 2005-2014 87 140 14 4683 224 37.16 6 31 10 investigate this query
BK Kunderan 1960-1967 15 28 3 831 192 33.24 2 3 1 investigate this query
PA Patel 2002-2018 25 38 8 934 71 31.13 0 6 4 investigate this query
FM Engineer 1961-1975 46 87 3 2611 121 31.08 2 16 7 investigate this query
WP Saha 2012-2019 32 44 7 1061 117 28.67 2 5 5 investigate this query
SMH Kirmani 1976-1986 88 124 22 2759 102 27.04 2 12 7 investigate this query
KS More 1986-1993 48 63 14 1244 73 25.38 0 7 7 investigate this query
NR Mongia 1994-2001 43 66 8 1441 152 24.84 1 6 5
Posted

UAE Khan is well ahead of Majid. The gap between Ind batting and Pak batting (especially in subcontinent conditions) isn't as big as the gap between their bowling and ours (even after taking into account all the hanky panky with ball tampering). Since Tests are almost always won by the team with the stronger bowling attack Pakistan has the edge for now. We need another couple of Bumrah level pacers to be considered a better AT XI.

Posted
18 minutes ago, zen said:

:dontknow:

 

 

 

Ah, Present day Sri Lanka and West Indies.  Such quality opponents to measure performances by.  By that standard Hardik Pandya should be an automatic starter for the ATG team - hey he scored 80+ in SA, and has a 5-fer in England.  

 

You are giving out slots in ATG XI like there's a discount on Jalebi Ghaanthiyaa  at the "sweets/farsaan mart" on the corner - Banjo everywhere in Gujjustaan you turn our head - I'll be damned if you don't see at least 2 "sweets/farsaan" dukaan within 100 meters.  Maybe more.  

Posted
Just now, sandeep said:

Ah, Present day Sri Lanka and West Indies.  Such quality opponents to measure performances by.  By that standard Hardik Pandya should be an automatic starter for the ATG team - hey he scored 80+ in SA, and has a 5-fer in England.  

 

You are giving out slots in ATG XI like there's a discount on Jalebi Ghaanthiyaa  at the "sweets/farsaan mart" on the corner - Banjo everywhere in Gujjustaan you turn our head - I'll be damned if you don't see at least 2 "sweets/farsaan" dukaan within 100 meters.  Maybe more.  

If I were, I would have included Pandya (like you said), More/Mongia/Parthiv, Jadeja, Munaf, Ghavri, etc, so on .... Bumrah plays for one of the 3 Guj Ranji teams but he is good much like Pujara is. Zak also played for Baroda .... Have not included any of these :((

 

Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Seriously speaking, VVS at #6, Dravid at #3.  Pujara's nowhere close to ATG XI selection.  

  • With the emergence of Pujara and Kohli, players such as VVS, Hazare,  etc. are on their way out of AT11. If we remove Pujara (at this point), he would be replaced by someone like Amarnath in my book
  • Also I used to hype Kapil in the past as he made the team "appear" competitive on paper, but if he is not batting well, can be replaced by Srinath or Zak 

 

 

Edited by zen
Posted

All All time XI teams should have players playing at their own spot. If they are playing at other spot then their record of that spot should be considered not overall record. Better play player who has performed well at that spot.

Posted
2 minutes ago, zen said:
  • With the emergence of Pujara and Kohli, players such as VVS, Hazare,  etc. are on their way out of AT11. If we remove Pujara (at this point), he would be replaced by someone like Amarnath in my book
  • Also I used to hype Kapil in the past as he made the team "appear" competitive on paper, but if he is not batting well, can be replaced by Srinath or Zak 

 

 

Zak replacing Kapil is - I don't have words. 

 

Taking both at their prime, its no contest.  Come on now

Posted

@zen AT 11s are not based on Statsguru searches. You set a min no of tests even in that case. 12 tests is way too small for sample size, plus you need to read or follow what experts say. They would have seen or read about the great players. In my opinion, Pant , Pujara are not deserving to be listed in AT11. Here’s my team,

 

Gavaskar, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Hazare, Mankad, Kirmani, Kapil Dev, Kumble, Srinath, Prasanna

 

Hanif, Majid, ZaheerAbbas, Miandad,,Inzimam, Younis, Imran, WasimBari, Akram, Qadir. Waqar, 

Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Gavaskar, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Hazare, Mankad, Kirmani, Kapil Dev, Kumble, Srinath, Prasanna

Why would you play only 2 pacers in sporting conditions and that too at a neutral venue like Aus .... Read the OP 

 

How many games has Kumble won us overseas vs top sides in his relatively long career? In Ind on turning pitches, I can play any of the top spinners to get the desired effect

 

Quote

Hanif, Majid, ZaheerAbbas, Miandad,,Inzimam, Younis, Imran, WasimBari, Akram, Qadir. Waqar, 

Qadir?! .... On turning tracks, Pak could also play Saqlain, etc., .... 

 

 

Edited by zen
Posted
1 hour ago, zen said:

A hypothetical matchup of epic proportions. While the stakes are high, let me get the point out of the way that these are not the greatest of ATG sides because of reasons including: 

  • Many of the ATG players have played as a group for an extended period (batsmen for Ind and bowlers for Pak), but they have not had the desired AT team level impact. For e.g. when WI, Aus, and SA had many of their ATG level players playing together, they dominated more relatively 
  • The teams have struggled overseas even with their relatively strongest 11s in general. Pak particularly in Australia

 

Assume sporting conditions and a neutral venue like say Aus (Not many wants to play cricket in Pak at the moment. And Ind may not allow the hypothetical series to be played in Ind)? 

 

IND AT 11

 

  • Gavaskar - undisputed World ATG 11 opener
  • Sehwag - revolutionized test opening with his legendary high SR batting. Has 100s in Aus (some great performances), Eng, Pak (Bradmanesque performances), SA, SL (again great performances when others struggled), and WI 
  • Pujara - Solid performer. Again has a great record in Aus (ATG level performance)
  • Tendulkar
  • Kohli
  • Dravid
  • Pant 
  • Kapil - good performances in Aus (and in WI)
  • Shami - (good 4th inning record)
  • Bumrah
  • Chandra (or Gupte. Ind's top performing spinners in most conditions) 

 

  • Sehwag and Tendulkar can bowl spin to combine as 5th bowlers 

 

 

PAK AT 11 

 

  • Anwar
  • Hanif
  • Majid (popular on ICF, but feel free to replace him with a player of your choice)
  • Javed
  • Abbas
  • Inzi
  • WK of your choice 
  • Imran
  • Akram
  • Saqlain
  • Waqar

 

  • Most of the bowlers and batsmen have played together but as a team, Pak has underachieved as mentioned before 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This would be my AT Pak 11

 

Majid

Hanif

Abbas

Miandad

Inzimam

Imran ( C )

Wasim Akram

Qadir

Waqar

Saqi

Akhtar 

 

Anwar was a good opener but not even close to Majid's class

With IK in the side  , you don;t need a 6th batsman and to beat India , Pakistan has to be at it strongest in Bowling, with 5 bowlers. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, First class said:

 

This would be my AT Pak 11

 

Majid

Hanif

Abbas

Miandad

Inzimam

Imran ( C )

Wasim Akram

Qadir

Waqar

Saqi

Akhtar 

 

Anwar was a good opener but not even close to Majid's class

With IK in the side  , you don;t need a 6th batsman and to beat India , Pakistan has to be at it strongest in Bowling, with 5 bowlers. 

Note that Ind bowlers in AT11 have better record than Pak bowlers in Aus:

 

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India remove India from query or Pakistan remove Pakistan from query
Host country Australia remove Australia from query
Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler remove pace bowler from query
Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 15 remove wickets taken greater than or equal to 15 from query
Ordered by bowling average (ascending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 16 of 16   First pageFirst Previous pagePrevious Next Next page Last Last page dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu
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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM AveAscending Econ SR 5 10  
JJ Bumrah (INDIA) 2018-2019 4 8 943 357 21 6/33 9/86 17.00 2.27 44.9 1 0 investigate this query
Wasim Akram (PAK) 1990-1999 9 15 2091 866 36 6/62 11/160 24.05 2.48 58.0 3 1 investigate this query
N Kapil Dev (INDIA) 1981-1992 11 21 3137 1254 51 8/106 8/109 24.58 2.39 61.5 5 0 investigate this query
Imran Khan (PAK) 1976-1990 13 20 3038 1283 45 6/63 12/165 28.51 2.53 67.5 3 1 investigate this query
KD Ghavri (INDIA) 1977-1981 6 11 1214 641 21 5/107 7/138 30.52 3.16 57.8 1 0 investigate this query
Mohammed Shami (INDIA) 2014-2019 7 14 1579 956 31 6/56 6/136 30.83 3.63 50.9 2 0 investigate this query
Sarfraz Nawaz (PAK) 1972-1984 12 22 3854 1573 50 9/86 11/125 31.46 2.44 77.0 1 1 investigate this query
AB Agarkar (INDIA) 1999-2004 7 13 1577 947 27 6/41 8/160 35.07 3.60 58.4 1 0 investigate this query
Z Khan (INDIA) 2003-2012 7 11 1450 877 25 5/95 7/130 35.08 3.62 58.0 1 0 investigate this query
RF Surti (INDIA) 1967-1968 4 7 940 528 15 5/74 6/161 35.20 3.37 62.6 1 0 investigate this query
M Prabhakar (INDIA) 1991-1992 5 10 1523 680 19 5/101 6/217 35.78 2.67 80.1 1 0 investigate this query
Azeem Hafeez (PAK) 1983-1984 5 7 1173 733 19 5/100 7/217 38.57 3.74 61.7 2 0 investigate this query
Shoaib Akhtar (PAK) 1999-2005 6 10 1023 740 17 5/99 6/121 43.52 4.34 60.1 2 0 investigate this query
UT Yadav (INDIA) 2011-2018 8 14 1641 1238 27 5/93 7/176 45.85 4.52 60.7 1 0 investigate this query
I Sharma (INDIA) 2008-2018 13 23 2727 1505 31 4/41 6/155 48.54 3.31 87.9 0 0 investigate this query
J Srinath (INDIA) 1991-2000 8 15 1963 1014 20 4/130 4/175 50.70 3.09 98.1 0 0

 

 

Even batsmen:

 

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India remove India from query or Pakistan remove Pakistan from query
Host country Australia remove Australia from query
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 300 remove runs scored greater than or equal to 300 from query and batting average greater than or equal to 43 remove batting average greater than or equal to 43 from query
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 21 of 21   First pageFirst Previous pagePrevious Next Next page Last Last page dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu
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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending 100 50 0 4s 6s  
SM Patil (INDIA) 1981-1981 3 6 1 311 174 62.20 1 1 0 37 1 investigate this query
RR Pant (INDIA) 2018-2019 4 7 1 350 159* 58.33 1 0 0 31 5 investigate this query
MAK Pataudi (INDIA) 1967-1968 3 6 0 339 85 56.50 0 4 0 44 1 investigate this query
RJ Shastri (INDIA) 1985-1992 6 7 0 391 206 55.85 1 0 0 31 2 investigate this query
M Amarnath (INDIA) 1977-1986 8 13 1 668 138 55.66 2 3 2 50 0 investigate this query
CA Pujara (INDIA) 2014-2019 7 13 0 722 193 55.53 3 2 1 76 2 investigate this query
V Kohli (INDIA) 2011-2019 12 23 0 1274 169 55.39 6 3 2 142 3 investigate this query
SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 1991-2012 20 38 4 1809 241* 53.20 6 7 3 209 7 investigate this query
DG Phadkar (INDIA) 1947-1948 4 8 2 314 123 52.33 1 3 1 34 0 investigate this query
Azhar Ali (PAK) 2016-2019 5 10 1 468 205* 52.00 1 2 0 49 0 investigate this query
SM Gavaskar (INDIA) 1977-1986 11 19 1 920 172 51.11 5 1 2 97 0 investigate this query
Younis Khan (PAK) 2004-2017 6 12 1 557 175* 50.63 1 2 1 60 3 investigate this query
VS Hazare (INDIA) 1947-1948 5 10 1 429 145 47.66 2 1 0 47 0 investigate this query
V Sehwag (INDIA) 2003-2012 10 20 0 948 195 47.40 2 4 2 122 8 investigate this query
RF Surti (INDIA) 1967-1968 4 8 0 367 70 45.87 0 4 0 34 0 investigate this query
GR Viswanath (INDIA) 1977-1981 8 15 0 686 114 45.73 1 5 0 68 0 investigate this query
Asif Iqbal (PAK) 1964-1979 9 17 2 681 152* 45.40 3 1 2 78 4 investigate this query
M Vijay (INDIA) 2014-2018 6 12 0 531 144 44.25 1 4 2 57 6 investigate this query
VVS Laxman (INDIA) 1999-2012 15 29 1 1236 178 44.14 4 4 2 165 0 investigate this query
AM Rahane (INDIA) 2014-2019 8 15 1 616 147 44.00 1 4 1 70 3 investigate this query
R Dravid (INDIA) 1999-2012 15 30 4 1143 233 43.96 1 6 1 133 2

 

 

 

Posted (edited)

 

Quote

 

PAK AT 11 

 

  • Anwar
  • Hanif
  • Majid (popular on ICF, but feel free to replace him with a player of your choice)
  • Javed
  • Abbas
  • Inzi
  • WK of your choice 
  • Imran
  • Akram
  • Saqlain
  • Waqar

 

  • Most of the bowlers and batsmen have played together but as a team, Pak has underachieved as mentioned before 

why no akthar ....he was always damn good in australia

No younis khan??? the guy was nightmare for our bowlers....

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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