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SecondSlip

Why is Sanju Samson so highly rated?

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18 minutes ago, SecondSlip said:

Not in domestic cricket or even the IPL. 
 

1-2 half centuries in an IPL season doesn’t make anyone a match winner. 

 

If I recall correctly, MI (winner in 2019) had its batsmen score like 10 50s (4 of them by QdK) combined in the whole tournament (16 games) .... so if a batsmen has already scored two and that too helping its team win, it is commendable 

 

 

 

 

Edited by zen
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33 minutes ago, zen said:

 

If you look at the graph below in the WBA & SR column (others things can be not so imp):

 

1224881_900x1000.png&w=1140&cquality=40&

 

 

Only two batsmen in the history of the game have balanced high avg w/ high SR: Viv Richards & ABDV 

 

Most of the batsmen either have high avg but sacrifice SR for that (less than 90) relatively (Kohli, Tendulkar) or have a high SR but sacrifice avg (Sehwag, Gilly and Jayasuriya) 

 

Talking about RR: Smith and Stokes are its high avg players, while Samson & Buttler, high SR 

 

 

What is the first column - index? Why is Tendulkar placed above all? 

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8 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

What is the first column - index? Why is Tendulkar placed above all? 

 

The index that factors in other things besides avg & SR such as runs, mom (iirc), playing in world cup final (so Ponting and Gilly get good scores too), etc.

 

If we do WBA (Avg) * SR, only 3 batsmen are above 4000

  • Richards 4576
  • Kohli 4264
  • ABDV 4237

 

 

Edited by zen
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26 minutes ago, SecondSlip said:

Not in domestic cricket or even the IPL. 
 

1-2 half centuries in an IPL season doesn’t make anyone a match winner. 

again ur confusing match winning with consistency 

match winning is when u perform u make ur team win most days

 

Rahane cant be called a match winner coz on days he perform also high chance his team will loose or take dhawan last innings

Samson the day he fires will runaway with the game and he has done that a lot in IPL 

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3 minutes ago, zen said:

 

The index that factors in other things besides avg & SR such as runs, mom (iirc), playing in world cup final (so Ponting and Gilly get good scores too), etc., designed so that Tendulkar tops 

 

If we do WBA (Avg) * SR, only 3 batsmen are above 4000

  • Richards 4576
  • Kohli 4264
  • ABDV 4237

 

 

Of course, not a shade on RPT. Which is designed so Tendulkar does not top right?

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37 minutes ago, SecondSlip said:

First tell him to perform in domestic cricket before begging for his inclusion in the Indian Team. 
 

This overrated failure should stay very far away from the national side unless he proves himself in domestic cricket. 
 

A few sixes here and there in IPL should never be used to judge a batsman. 

Zak Crawley averages 30 in first class cricket but the English selectors picked him based on his ability & potential. He scored a double hundred. 

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1 minute ago, New guy said:

Of course, not a shade on RPT. Which is designed so Tendulkar does not top right?

 

After a certain cutoff point (whether matches or runs/wkts), I believe in using performance per inning/match metrics 

 

I do not add Tests, Odi & T20s runs/wkts 

 

 

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1 minute ago, SK_IH said:

Zak Crawley averages 30 in first class cricket but the English selectors picked him based on his ability & potential. He scored a double hundred. 

and so does Marnus Labuschane ..both avg 30 

 

Most teams dont even use samson well, his forte is top 3 like rohit...give him PP . He made 200 also in top 3

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
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Since 2016, Ind in T20s

 

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India 
Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies 
Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500 
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 6 of 6   First Previous Next  Last  Return to query menu
Cleared query menu
Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
V Kohli 2016-2020 46 43 15 1697 94* 60.60 1181 143.69 0 15 1 145 52
MK Pandey 2016-2020 27 23 13 542 79* 54.20 417 129.97 0 3 0 37 15
KL Rahul 2016-2020 33 30 4 1223 110* 47.03 826 148.06 2 9 0 110 51
MS Dhoni 2016-2019 38 32 17 663 56 44.20 477 138.99 0 2 0 52 23
RG Sharma 2016-2020 52 51 4 1410 118 30.00 985 143.14 3 9 4 127 71
S Dhawan 2016-2020 42 40 2 1107 92 29.13 830 133.37 0 7 0 121 33

 

 

Kohli & KL have been outstanding. Dhoni is gone. Ind needs a few high SR players. 

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1 hour ago, zen said:

Since 2016, Ind in T20s

 

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India 
Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies 
Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500 
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 6 of 6   First Previous Next  Last  Return to query menu
Cleared query menu
Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
V Kohli 2016-2020 46 43 15 1697 94* 60.60 1181 143.69 0 15 1 145 52  
MK Pandey 2016-2020 27 23 13 542 79* 54.20 417 129.97 0 3 0 37 15  
KL Rahul 2016-2020 33 30 4 1223 110* 47.03 826 148.06 2 9 0 110 51  
MS Dhoni 2016-2019 38 32 17 663 56 44.20 477 138.99 0 2 0 52 23  
RG Sharma 2016-2020 52 51 4 1410 118 30.00 985 143.14 3 9 4 127 71  
S Dhawan 2016-2020 42 40 2 1107 92 29.13 830 133.37 0 7 0 121 33

 

 

Kohli & KL have been outstanding. Dhoni is gone. Ind needs a few high SR players. 

 

 @Khota - does dhawan look like best even in India 

 

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India 
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500 
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 9 of 9   First Previous Next  Last  Return to query menu
Cleared query menu
Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
V Kohli 2010-2020 82 76 21 2794 94* 50.80 2021 138.24 0 24 2 258 76
MK Pandey 2015-2020 38 32 17 707 79* 47.13 554 127.61 0 3 2 49 19
KL Rahul 2016-2020 42 38 6 1461 110* 45.65 1000 146.10 2 11 1 129 61
MS Dhoni 2006-2019 98 85 42 1617 56 37.60 1282 126.13 0 2 1 116 52
RG Sharma 2007-2020 108 100 15 2773 118 32.62 1998 138.78 4 21 6 245 127
SK Raina 2006-2018 78 66 11 1605 101 29.18 1190 134.87 1 5 3 145 58
S Dhawan 2011-2020 61 59 3 1588 92 28.35 1238 128.27 0 10 1 175 47
Yuvraj Singh 2007-2017 58 51 9 1177 77* 28.02 863 136.38 0 8 1 77 74
G Gambhir 2007-2012 37 36 2 932 75 27.41 783 119.02 0 7 2 109 10

 

 

even Dhoni has done better who was never a good t20 player 

 

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3 hours ago, The Realist said:

Agree with the OP, way overrated. Been a potential "talent" for the last half a decade with always the tantalising promise that this year will be the one.

 

FFS the dude is 26 next month and done or achieved little of substance so far.

Just look at some of the responses in the first page. 
 

There are still some clueless posters here who are still rating this proven failure so highly in this thread itself. 
 

Neither Samson or his supporters will ever learn! :laugh:

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9 hours ago, SecondSlip said:

First tell him to perform in domestic cricket before begging for his inclusion in the Indian Team. 
 

This overrated failure should stay very far away from the national side unless he proves himself in domestic cricket. 
 

A few sixes here and there in IPL should never be used to judge a batsman. 

Samson was actually part of T20i series played against NZ in Jan 2020. He is already in T20i team rather than begging and it remains to be seen whether the selectors still keep him in team in spite of poor records considering those were his first steps in T20i level or drop him.

 

Overall he has played in 4 T20i matches ,3 of which were in 2020. In 4 T20i matches he has scored 35 runs at strike rate of 97.22 The performance has to improve drastically. His weakness against short ball is getting expolited even by domestic bowlers.

 

At Sharjah the boundaries being very small and wicket favoring batsmen he managed to score runs. 159 runs at a sr over 200 in both matches. In the frst T20i apart from Samson, Smith also scored 64 and Tewaitya took 3 wickets. It was just not Samson who won the match. In second match too apart from Samson, Smith and Tewatiya scored 50's. The media made it look it was only Samson who won those two matches, well there was Smith and Tewatiya as well without whoe performances RR would have lost whatever they have managed to win. Gambhir was one of them who said Samson is best keeper batsman without giving importance to match winning contributions from other RR players or keeping the context of wickets in mind. On same wicket, opponent player Agarwal also scored a 100. It was  clearly a batting wicket.

 

As soon as Samson played away from Sharjah, he has scored just 68 runs in 6 matches. That is terrible for a batsman.

Edited by Straight Drive
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44 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

His weakness against short ball is getting expolited even by domestic bowlers.

 

Weakness against short ball ? First i hve heard of ...are u sure ur talking about samson not nitish rana or raina. He hs enough time in the world to not get hassled by domestic pacer.

 

His only problem is same of rohit

To many shots just need to learn to shot selection and needs to be given top 3 slot

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
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10 hours ago, Cricketics said:

Look T20 is a bs format. No one is consistent or most players are hit or miss. So when a talent like him perform or fail and isn’t consistent, its fine. And if people ask for inclusion of such players in t20 Indian line up, thats fine too becuse the ones who play for India in that format aren’t consistent either.

 

50 over is a different beast. T20 isn’t of that status. 
 

Gill has been scoring runs but I won’t put him in 20 overs of Indian team based on that because he is not batting great for international t20 standards. But just by looking at the way Gill is batting, I will try him in Indian 50 overs, I believe his style suots that format. 

 

That is the difference. You go by gut instinct for t20s for Indian international team. Don’t look at how consistent they are. Leave all this scrutiny only for 50 over like which is the real deal in terms of LOI format.

 

Except King Kohli. And that is enough to explain why he is the GOAT. :icflove:

Edited by sscomp32
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1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Weakness against short ball ? First i hve heard of ...are u sure ur talking about samson not nitish rana or raina. He hs enough time in the world to not get hassled by domestic pacer.

 

His only problem is same of rohit

To many shots just need to learn to shot selection and needs to be given top 3 slot

 

Yes, i wrote about Samson. I did not discuss name of any other player.

 

Have seen bowlers bowling short balls to him in attempt to get him caught by fielders standing deep at Backward square leg or deep mid wicket. However, he scores runs of the same pull shot when the boundaries are small or when the bowlers bowl a rank bad short ball. Even in this IPL have seen him get out by bowlers on short ball. Bowlers are targetting him and having decent share of success. Either he is made to reduce his pull or getting out. He does scores runs on short balls but dismisslas on pull shots has often his undoing.

 

Forgeting every wekaness, ultimately what matters is that the runs need to be on the board. It should not happen that runs are scored only in Sharjah and pathetic scores are seen on other grounds.

 

I will not want to go through many matches to give evidence for what i have observed regarding bowlers trying to take his wickets as it is too mcuh time consuming. Having said that, i will give few examples from recent IPL.

 

2.5  taken at mid-on. Oh boy, it's a familiar script for Rajasthan. Short ball, up at the ribs and angled across off stump. He's cramped on the pull, gets in a poor position for it and slices it up for mid-on. It's long been a way to get Sanju out and it works on the night 12/3


4.1  dragged to midwicket! Short of a good length, climbing up at a middle stump line. 135kph. He goes across the line for the front-foot pull, but that gets a bit steep by the end. Off the sticker region of the bat and a gentle catch offered 30/2

 

 

 

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