Given a chance, Umesh might surprise us.

[maniac]

Looked very good in some spells yesterday,

in fact from what I saw only him and to some

extent Ashwin looked threatening.

[Suhaan]

How many chances? This is already his 4th tour here,did nothing in his first three

Don't know why this parameter isn't used for other players?

[maniac]

Just now, Suhaan said:

How many chances? This is already his 4th tour here,did nothing in his first three

Don't know why this parameter isn't used for other players?

Ishant looked hit  or miss in his first 3 tours too, take out 2018 and after Ishant the guy who bowled the best spells in the previous tours is Umesh. He seems to be in decent form and the most experienced bowler in Ishants absence and the only other guy besides Shami who has played pink ball test as a fast bowler  in the current team.

 

It’s a no brainer if you ask me. 

[Lone Wolf]

Too many Chances already..  That 2nd test vs NZ sealed the deal according to me.  Umesh still a beast in Indian conditions though & should play a few tests vs England

[sandeep]

39 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

How many chances? This is already his 4th tour here,did nothing in his first three

Don't know why this parameter isn't used for other players?

Players can evolve and change with time.  You should evaluate them for what they offer today, not what happened x years ago.  

 

Given that we have Bumrah and Shami as our first 2 choices, it becomes an important criteria that the 3rd seamer does 2 things well - execute with discipline to not undo the good work and pressure of the other bowlers - still offer some wicket-taking potential.  Add to this we already have Shami who can be wayward and blow hot and cold often.  That increases the pressure on the 3rd seamer to be even more disciplined.

 

I have high hopes for young Siraj and would have liked nothing better than for him to stake a strong claim for selection.  However, its becoming increasingly clear that Siraj is not a naturally 'smart' bowler who is adept at tactics, nor experienced enough to pick up those smarts.  He's still very promising, but the fact remains that there may be a risk of him struggling to maintain control and discipline in a tough match situation.  His mental strength is a bit of a question mark.  With Umesh, we know that he has improved meaningfully from his spray-gun days, his 'floor' - i.e. the worst case scenario, may be a safer  bet than Siraj's worst case scenario.  

 

tbh, neither Umesh nor Siraj really made a runaway strong case for themselves.  Both bowled well, but not spectacularly so.  

[putrevus]

There is nothing for Umesh to suprise us.He is what he is a five - 10 over bowlers per day. He will work in India as spinners will do the main bowling. In Australia he will lose matches because he cannot stop himself bowling boundary balls every over.Siraj is not a overwhemling upgrade over this guy. Sainai I would consider him for next test. Let all of them bowl in next match too .

 

If Umesh is selected, it is not a selection blunder.

Edited December 7, 2020 by putrevus

[Majestic]

We can try whoever we want but we will struggle in this series.

 

Bumrah looked deserted the whole tournament as far as taking wickets are concerned.

 

Saini was owned everytime he played a game of cricket in this tour.

 

Siraj will go for plenty once the bowl becomes old.

 

Shami is good initially but fails to sustain it for long enough.

 

Umesh is a SG ball specialist, will do zilch with Kookaburra.

 

Ashwin has always been mediocre with bowl outside Asia and West Indies.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Majestic

[Sean Bradley]

Umesh is predominantly a reverse swing subcontinental conditions bowler, you take him out of these conditions and he's half as affective. As the thread rightly calls it, he might surprise us, or he may not, we don't know which Umesh will turn up on the day. Do we need this Umesh in the XI, well I would preferably go with siraj in the first test, just for the X factor, guy making a debut will always put that extra effort.

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

Ishant looked hit  or miss in his first 3 tours too, take out 2018 and after Ishant the guy who bowled the best spells in the previous tours is Umesh. He seems to be in decent form and the most experienced bowler in Ishants absence and the only other guy besides Shami who has played pink ball test as a fast bowler  in the current team.

 

It’s a no brainer if you ask me. 

Ishant kept playing on his first tour impression

Umesh didn't have any,before 2018 we lacked options and had to content with Ishant but Ishant wasn't a run leaking machine either with Umesh there is a huge risk of opening floodgates,we can't say "we don't have options" anymore,at worse they will bowl as Umesh

[Suhaan]

23 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Players can evolve and change with time.  You should evaluate them for what they offer today, not what happened x years ago.  

 

Given that we have Bumrah and Shami as our first 2 choices, it becomes an important criteria that the 3rd seamer does 2 things well - execute with discipline to not undo the good work and pressure of the other bowlers - still offer some wicket-taking potential.  Add to this we already have Shami who can be wayward and blow hot and cold often.  That increases the pressure on the 3rd seamer to be even more disciplined.

 

I have high hopes for young Siraj and would have liked nothing better than for him to stake a strong claim for selection.  However, its becoming increasingly clear that Siraj is not a naturally 'smart' bowler who is adept at tactics, nor experienced enough to pick up those smarts.  He's still very promising, but the fact remains that there may be a risk of him struggling to maintain control and discipline in a tough match situation.  His mental strength is a bit of a question mark.  With Umesh, we know that he has improved meaningfully from his spray-gun days, his 'floor' - i.e. the worst case scenario, may be a safer  bet than Siraj's worst case scenario.  

 

tbh, neither Umesh nor Siraj really made a runaway strong case for themselves.  Both bowled well, but not spectacularly so.  

When did you see Shami blow hot and cold in past 2.5-3 years?

He is currently best pacer from Asia not even Bumrah comes close

People here confuse themselves by mixing formats noone knows which Siraj will show up with the red ball , lets see how he does

With Umesh we have seen  what he is capable of with Kookaburra,three tours are enough to guage ones capacity atleast with Kookaburra even Shami sucks with Duke , not everyone is all conditions bowler

You will never know about these youngsters unless they start

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

Ishant looked hit  or miss in his first 3 tours too, take out 2018 and after Ishant the guy who bowled the best spells in the previous tours is Umesh. He seems to be in decent form and the most experienced bowler in Ishants absence and the only other guy besides Shami who has played pink ball test as a fast bowler  in the current team.

 

It’s a no brainer if you ask me. 

Ishant was dropped many times only to play because the players selected were injured.Ishant always had ability to bowl 20 overs without leaking too many runs,He might not have taken bucket load of wickets but he always bowled 20 overs and kept it reasonablly tight. Ishant has been relatively injury free thruout his career.Yadav  has remained injury free for most part , he should have played country cricket too.

[maniac]

16 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

atleast with Kookaburra even Shami sucks with Duke , not everyone is all conditions bowler

You will never know about these youngsters unless they start

Forget Dukes Kookaburra for a

second, how many matches have Saini and Siraj played under lights (test format) and with pink ball?

 

Its different if there was no other option available but if Umesh is picked in the squad as a premier fast bowler (top 5)  in the country , given he has experience it would be dumb to experiment with a rookie. 
 

Will Siraj or Saini run through Aussies is as much of a 50-50 as Umesh, at least let a guy who has bowled with pink ball play the game when he is in your squad.

 

Given he looked good in practice match as well, it’s got to be Umesh. This is too crucial of a game to be experimenting.

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

Venue	O	M	R	W	5w	10w	Best	Avg	S/R	E/R
Home	731.5	129	2356	96	2	1	6/88	24.54	45.74	3.22
Away	498.4	76	2032	48	1	0	5/93	42.33	62.33	4.07
Overall	1230.3	205	4388	144	3	1	6/88	30.47	51.27	3.57

 

Chalk n cheese 

 

• Ishant and umesh problem were totaly diff 
• We took him with same hope to Nz n ENG and end result was same 
• U can believe that things have changed but their has to be a reason but his pace isnt same anymore and bouncer is weak , control same old **** ....so whats the reason or is it just fluke. With Ishant he found his wrist position back 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Saini n siraj fail its ok they ll learn but Umesh has been failing n failing . 

This is the same Dhawan n Rohit experiment overseas, dhawan proved it again that he didnt work and Rohit jury yet to be out 

[maniac]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Saini n siraj fail its ok they ll learn but Umesh has been failing n failing . 

This is the same Dhawan n Rohit experiment overseas, dhawan proved it again that he didnt work and Rohit jury yet to be out 

Saini and Siraj are backups. Umesh is not a replacement. What have they done to move ahead of others? It’s understandable if Pandya or say Jadeja as the spinner move ahead of others based on their form but what have these 2 done to be picked ahead of Umesh?

 

Have they played d/n test?

pink ball test?

In Australia before?

are they in form?

 

Then why do they jump ahead of Umesh?

 

As I said before of Umesh doesn’t deserve then he shouldn’t have been in the squad in the first place. If he is there, he should play first unless he gets injured or he really sucks in the fist 1-2 games.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 minutes ago, maniac said:

Saini and Siraj are backups. Umesh is not a replacement.

 

 

this concept was bets kept till bathroom que, this has ruined indian cricket 

the guy shudnt be even travelling overseas 

 

Quote

What have they done to move ahead of others? It’s understandable if Pandya or say Jadeja as the spinner move ahead of others based on their form but what have these 2 done to be picked ahead of Umesh?

 

Performed in domestic n A games and umesh didnt overseas. But where is umesh perfomances ?

 

Quote

 

Have they played d/n test?

pink ball test?

 

Everyone has a 1st time. 

Also that pink ball was SG umesh yadav strength , this wud be kookabura

 

Quote

In Australia before?

 

Umesh wud have also played for 1st time ever 

Umesh avg 45 in Aus, 8 test men kya ukhad liya 

 

Quote

are they in form?

 

I didnt knew how form can be assessed as they all recently played white ball only but if that u want umesh sucked big time 

Last test i remember umesh playing he sucked in NZ

 

Quote

 

Then why do they jump ahead of Umesh?

 

Coz umesh hasnt performed out of india 

 

Quote

 

As I said before of Umesh doesn’t deserve then he shouldn’t have been in the squad in the first place. If he is there, he should play first unless he gets injured or he really sucks in the fist 1-2 games.

 

2 wrongs dont make a right 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03

[sandeep]

42 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

When did you see Shami blow hot and cold in past 2.5-3 years?

There's a reason for the "2nd innings Shami" meme.  Figure it out.

 

42 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

People here confuse themselves by mixing formats noone knows which Siraj will show up with the red ball , lets see how he does

Yes Siraj has been better with red ball over white, and we haven't seen him at the highest level yet. But we do have reasonable insight into his mindset, his repertoire, and his ability to adapt under pressure.  Let's be honest - it hasn't been great.  

 

24 minutes ago, maniac said:

Its different if there was no other option available but if Umesh is picked in the squad as a premier fast bowler (top 5)  in the country , given he has experience it would be dumb to experiment with a rookie. 

 

25 minutes ago, maniac said:

This is too crucial of a game to be experimenting.

The conservative in me tends to agree with this, but I do like Siraj's potential.  And Umesh has let us down quite a few times in the past.  But he also has shown improvement.  Its a bit of a mess, and I'm hoping the 2nd warm-up game gives us an easier choice.

 

Regardless I hope whoever it is, does well.

[putrevus]

People should not go overboard if Umesh is selected as , it is not a bad choice given who are available.I personally would wait till second tour match is finished for me to make my pick.

Edited December 7, 2020 by putrevus

[Suhaan]

23 minutes ago, maniac said:

Forget Dukes Kookaburra for a

second, how many matches have Saini and Siraj played under lights (test format) and with pink ball?

 

Its different if there was no other option available but if Umesh is picked in the squad as a premier fast bowler (top 5)  in the country , given he has experience it would be dumb to experiment with a rookie. 
 

Will Siraj or Saini run through Aussies is as much of a 50-50 as Umesh, at least let a guy who has bowled with pink ball play the game when he is in your squad.

 

Given he looked good in practice match as well, it’s got to be Umesh. This is too crucial of a game to be experimenting.

Again what is your point?How does Umesh merit a place in the xi based onnhis past exploits in a place where he has failed time and again

What is "experimenting",you won't risk a newcomer but you take a punt for a tried and test failure,that too comes under the term "taking risk".

 

How do you know Saini/Siraj both will suck when you have never seen them bowl with red ball and here you show confidence on Umesh when you have seen him fail everytime in Aus before?

Is playing Umesh again is not taking risk?is it not experimenting?

We all know this is Australia in Australia can't take risk,but with Umesh its risk anyway

[Ankit_sharma03]

One of the biggest reason we have done well overseas is our tight bowling, Umesh has an eco of 4.53 in Aus...totally unacceptable . Now even siraj can go for runs but not as badly most days as umesh , ill rather have a future player fail then a TTF