India's batting is seriously flawed and Kohli/Shastri are responsible for it.

[Nikhil_cric]

Kohli's captaincy is reflective of his personality- brash and aggressive and with a need to always stay ahead of the 8 ball. But as a batting leader, this may have not only affected his own game but has severely affected the teams batting approach in tests especially in SENA. 

 

SENA conditions largely offer a greater deal of pace and bounce and at some venues a lot more swing and seam than is seen  typically in India. Especially with 140 + bowlers bowling  the reaction time required is exceptionally less and even more so for openers dealing with the new ball. 

 

So how do you deal with it then? Logic would suggest that you have to give yourself as much time as possible to play your strokes doesn't it? Well that's exactly what many successful teams have done. Pakistan surprised many in both 2016 and 2018 by their batting performances and coach Mickey Arthur talked about playing the ball as late as possible and right under the eye. Post Ashes 2019, Steve Smith concurred with this POV and said that he waited for the ball to come to him than look to reach for the ball. 

 

Now let's look at the case of Indian batsmen. In December 2018, we flew in Mayank Aggarwal and he instantly performed better than any if the others. Why? Cricviz did analysis and concluded that Mayank had scored 40 % of his runs with his weight going backward and had played the ball a lot later than the others. The result = greater control against seriously quick bowler s with a new ball and hence his assured batting. 

 

Our next SENA tour was in NZ and once again our batting failed . NZ bowlers found more swing and Jamieson- bounce but our bowlers were a full 6kph quicker and and had found more seam movement.  Yet NZ batted a lot better than we did. Why? The NZ batting lineup , on average, batted a half metre deeper

their Indian counterparts. For eg. KW on average made impact 1.7m from the stumps while Kohli was a good 2.34 m on average. The analysis observed that while NZ had batted only marginally better than what was expected of them, India had performed a good 30% worse than what was expected of the lineup

 

On this tour, Mayank has failed so far. He has been , on average, playing the ball a half metre further from the stumps than he did last tour and that's probably why he has not looked in control or has the same assuredness. 

 

It is clear from this that Shastri and Kohli in particular have no idea what they are doing. They are imposing their idea of an aggressive batting mindset and are influencing younger batsmen to sacrifice control for aggression and as seen in the case of  mayank, trying to fix something that was working perfectly fine. 

 

If Shastri and rathour cant even figure out these errors , what are they even being paid for when a cursory glance at publicly available data analytics can rectify some of these long standing issues? Or is Kohli so obstinate that he will not only mot listen to data and reason but coerce the rest of the lineup to do the same as well? 

 

Discuss. 

 

[Vk1]

I know that Kohli and Shastri are big fans of default forward press 

[Nikhil_cric]

6 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

I know that Kohli and Shastri are big fans of default forward press 

Kohli believes it is better to counter swing by meeting the ball early. Even if it has worked for him, he is the exception. Babar Azam for instance has made rapid strides in his SENA batting by progressively meeting the ball as late as possible.  Our lot are going backwards going by the Mayank example. 

[Vickydev]

6 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The analysis observed that while NZ had batted only marginally better than what was expected of them, India had performed a good 30% worse than what was expected of the lineup

 

 

Interesting detail here..how is this evaluated?? based just on their scores or level of control and other such metrics??

 

I think Kohli's mode of batting outside of the crease to negate the swing, which worked for him in England 2018 might have influenced the rest.

 

Usually in seaming conditions of UK and NZ the idea is to play late. Not so sure about Australia though where the ball comes on a lot quicker and players may get stuck on crease if playing back too much.

[Serpico]

He did appear offering advices to Mayank in nets before the series started 

[Nikhil_cric]

4 minutes ago, Vickydev said:

Interesting detail here..how is this evaluated?? based just on their scores or level of control and other such metrics??

 

I think Kohli's mode of batting outside of the crease to negate the swing, which worked for him in England 2018 might have influenced the rest.

 

Usually in seaming conditions of UK and NZ the idea is to play late. Not so sure about Australia though where the ball comes on a lot quicker and players may get stuck on crease if playing back too much.

Its based,  I think, on the quality of the deliveries bowled a d historical averages against those deliveries. So for example, I think the average expected against the deliveries that were bowled to us was 27 but we averaged only around 18 or so indicating that we had underperformed severely. 

[nevada]

Awesome post! It's time to bring in a real coach and appoint a captain who can work constructively with him. 

[express bowling]

The best way to play quick bowling is ....

 

1. Have a back and across trigger movement. This allows the batsman to play as late as possible and have a better idea of where his off stump is.

 

2. After this ... have a definitive front foot or back foot movement to go to the line of the ball, based on the length of the ball.

 

3.  After this ... either play the ball under your eyes or leave the ball if it is missing the stumps and you don't want to score runs. 

 

** Some really gifted batsmen do not use the back and across trigger movement to play quick bowling as they have a lot of time to play extra pace ... but it really helps the average batsman.

 

 

The biggest issue our batsmen are having on this tour is that ....   they are not showing good footwork regarding going on the front foot when the ball is pitched up by quick bowlers.

 

Plus many are not using the back and across trigger movement. Which means they are not playing the ball late. ( Gill uses the back and across trigger movement very well  )

 

Our batting coach is not doing a good job.

[Nikhil_cric]

38 minutes ago, express bowling said:

The best way to play quick bowling is ....

 

1. Have a back and across trigger movement. This allows the batsman to play as late as possible and have a better idea of where his off stump is.

 

2. After this ... have a definitive front foot or back foot movement to go to the line of the ball, based on the length of the ball.

 

3.  After this ... either play the ball under your eyes or leave the ball if it is missing the stumps and you don't want to score runs. 

 

** Some really gifted batsmen do not use the back and across trigger movement to play quick bowling as they have a lot of time to play extra pace ... but it really helps the average batsman.

 

 

The biggest issue our batsmen are having on this tour is that ....   they are not showing good footwork regarding going on the front foot when the ball is pitched up by quick bowlers.

 

Plus many are not using the back and across trigger movement. Which means they are not playing the ball late. ( Gill uses the back and across trigger movement very well  )

 

Our batting coach is not doing a good job.

Even the gifted ones are better off using that method as it simply gives you a lot of time and better control over your strokes etc. Control is everything in test cricket . The lower the percentage of false shots you play, the better your chances of scoring those big hundreds etc. 

[putrevus]

11 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Kohli's captaincy is reflective of his personality- brash and aggressive and with a need to always stay ahead of the 8 ball. But as a batting leader, this may have not only affected his own game but has severely affected the teams batting approach in tests especially in SENA. 

 

SENA conditions largely offer a greater deal of pace and bounce and at some venues a lot more swing and seam than is seen  typically in India. Especially with 140 + bowlers bowling  the reaction time required is exceptionally less and even more so for openers dealing with the new ball. 

 

So how do you deal with it then? Logic would suggest that you have to give yourself as much time as possible to play your strokes doesn't it? Well that's exactly what many successful teams have done. Pakistan surprised many in both 2016 and 2018 by their batting performances and coach Mickey Arthur talked about playing the ball as late as possible and right under the eye. Post Ashes 2019, Steve Smith concurred with this POV and said that he waited for the ball to come to him than look to reach for the ball. 

 

Now let's look at the case of Indian batsmen. In December 2018, we flew in Mayank Aggarwal and he instantly performed better than any if the others. Why? Cricviz did analysis and concluded that Mayank had scored 40 % of his runs with his weight going backward and had played the ball a lot later than the others. The result = greater control against seriously quick bowler s with a new ball and hence his assured batting. 

 

Our next SENA tour was in NZ and once again our batting failed . NZ bowlers found more swing and Jamieson- bounce but our bowlers were a full 6kph quicker and and had found more seam movement.  Yet NZ batted a lot better than we did. Why? The NZ batting lineup , on average, batted a half metre deeper

their Indian counterparts. For eg. KW on average made impact 1.7m from the stumps while Kohli was a good 2.34 m on average. The analysis observed that while NZ had batted only marginally better than what was expected of them, India had performed a good 30% worse than what was expected of the lineup

 

On this tour, Mayank has failed so far. He has been , on average, playing the ball a half metre further from the stumps than he did last tour and that's probably why he has not looked in control or has the same assuredness. 

 

It is clear from this that Shastri and Kohli in particular have no idea what they are doing. They are imposing their idea of an aggressive batting mindset and are influencing younger batsmen to sacrifice control for aggression and as seen in the case of  mayank, trying to fix something that was working perfectly fine. 

 

If Shastri and rathour cant even figure out these errors , what are they even being paid for when a cursory glance at publicly available data analytics can rectify some of these long standing issues? Or is Kohli so obstinate that he will not only mot listen to data and reason but coerce the rest of the lineup to do the same as well? 

 

Discuss. 

 

That is ridiculous assumption. Mayank was just new and Aussies might not had any plans for him on last tour. Now that they have a book on him , they are exploiting his weakness.Is Mayank good enough to overcome his weakness is the question.

 

Newcomers either a bowler or batsman doing well for one or two tests is more due to their unfamiliarity to opposition teams than them being exceptional talents. Mayank and now Siraj will fall into that category.Coaching helps to some extent but they cannot create a talent.I don't think they can destroy the talent either that they fall off the map. To sustain in international cricket you need both talent plus burning desire to succeed. Not many players have that is why you get lot of one series/season wonders.

 

Kohli still has lot of technical deficiencies in his batting and he has overcome some of them by his sheer will to fight. He still has issues with where his offstump is and he will continue to have problems there for rest of his career.

 

Playing late under the eye is a talent which not many batsmen have, Pakistan doing well on flattest pitches has got nothing to do with their technical adjustment.

 

KW is technically better than Steve Smith , Kohli or Root but he rarely imposes himself on other teams. To do well in Australia against this attack you need to take the fight back to the bowlers.What Pujara did last series is just anomaly, these Aussie fast bowlers are just too good to be blunted out of the attack.

[Nikhil_cric]

24 minutes ago, putrevus said:

That is ridiculous assumption. Mayank was just new and Aussies might not had any plans for him on last tour. Now that they have a book on him , they are exploiting his weakness.Is Mayank good enough to overcome his weakness is the question.

 

Newcomers either a bowler or batsman doing well for one or two tests is more due to their unfamiliarity to opposition teams than them being exceptional talents. Mayank and now Siraj will fall into that category.Coaching helps to some extent but they cannot create a talent.I don't think they can destroy the talent either that they fall off the map. To sustain in international cricket you need both talent plus burning desire to succeed. Not many players have that is why you get lot of one series/season wonders.

 

Kohli still has lot of technical deficiencies in his batting and he has overcome some of them by his sheer will to fight. He still has issues with where his offstump is and he will continue to have problems there for rest of his career.

 

Playing late under the eye is a talent which not many batsmen have, Pakistan doing well on flattest pitches has got nothing to do with their technical adjustment.

 

KW is technically better than Steve Smith , Kohli or Root but he rarely imposes himself on other teams. To do well in Australia against this attack you need to take the fight back to the bowlers.What Pujara did last series is just anomaly, these Aussie fast bowlers are just too good to be blunted out of the attack.

Err no. I'm not talking about flat pitches. Talking about their performances in England. Theres a cricket data thread I created on ICF and I've shared a graphic of Babars improvement in particular. You can check that out 

[putrevus]

26 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Err no. I'm not talking about flat pitches. Talking about their performances in England. Theres a cricket data thread I created on ICF and I've shared a graphic of Babars improvement in particular. You can check that out 

Babar is a very good batsman he might be their best talent since Inzi, he is bound to improve as he get more experience. Attributing it to some Mickey Arthur's coaching genius is completely overrating that guy.Pakistan have always done well in England even with their weakest teams.

 

Tactically Arthur teams have always played not lose than winning.

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by putrevus

[GeeGaw]

Analysis of Kohli's batting technique in NZ tests is flawed due to small sample size - he faced less than 100 balls in four innings. 

[Nikhil_cric]

34 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Babar is a very good batsman he might be their best talent since Inzi, he is bound to improve as he get more experience. Attributing it to some Mickey Arthur's coaching genius is completely overrating that guy.Pakistan have always done well in England even with their weakest teams.

 

Tactically Arthur teams have always played not lose than winning.

 

Even if we take mickey out of the picture, there seems to be a fairly straightforward correlation between playing the ball as late as possible and having success while batting in SENA countries. That was my point . And this seems to hold true for most batsmen. 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Even the gifted ones are better off using that method as it simply gives you a lot of time and better control over your strokes etc. Control is everything in test cricket . The lower the percentage of false shots you play, the better your chances of scoring those big hundreds etc. 

 

Yes, they are better off using that trigger movement  ... but many don't, probably because they have grown up playing like that.

Edited December 29, 2020 by express bowling

[Nikhil_cric]

14 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Yes, they are better off using that trigger movement  ... but many don't, probably because they have grown up playing lime that.

 

Yes. It works on Indian pitches which have little by way of seam or bounce but never works well in SENA. This is why we need a coach/batting consultant who can help train our bats for an away series and point out the minor changes that can make a significant difference.  Also why we need practice  matches so the batsmen have time to do that in real matches before the series begins

[cowboysfan]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

The best way to play quick bowling is ....

 

1. Have a back and across trigger movement. This allows the batsman to play as late as possible and have a better idea of where his off stump is.

 

2. After this ... have a definitive front foot or back foot movement to go to the line of the ball, based on the length of the ball.

 

3.  After this ... either play the ball under your eyes or leave the ball if it is missing the stumps and you don't want to score runs. 

 

** Some really gifted batsmen do not use the back and across trigger movement to play quick bowling as they have a lot of time to play extra pace ... but it really helps the average batsman.

 

 

The biggest issue our batsmen are having on this tour is that ....   they are not showing good footwork regarding going on the front foot when the ball is pitched up by quick bowlers.

 

Plus many are not using the back and across trigger movement. Which means they are not playing the ball late. ( Gill uses the back and across trigger movement very well  )

 

Our batting coach is not doing a good job.

 

with regards to Shaw he has had terrible footwork even in his under 19 days,he gets away with it because they are no express pace bowlers who can move it in India.he has not improved his footwork AT ALL and i dont know if he can ever do it.