Correcting Indian History

[coffee_rules]

Indian history, esp the version taught in schools need a revision. They teach young kids that India was no good and outsiders plundered them, teaching them to live with low self esteem. 
 

Case in point, NCERT text books have content with no basis. They claim Moghuls safeguarded temples with no basis or supplemental evidence. See this thread and RTI. Let’s teach some real history to kids.

 

 

 

[diga]

How convenient... Trying to whitewash the history.

 

When was this NCERT text book last changed?  Really disappointed with Prakash Javadekar even though he has been I&B minister from the last term .  I am not sure of Education minister Ramesh P Nishank's capabilities

[Muloghonto]

i am more interested in giving them an actual understanding of history in the bold strokes as a more pressing issue than correcting politically correct speech. 

The vast majority of Indian high school kids know very little about the magadh empire, the satavahanas, the kannauj triangle era, the chalukya-chola rivalry era, the fall of the Kabul-Shahi era, etc. 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

7 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

i am more interested in giving them an actual understanding of history in the bold strokes as a more pressing issue than correcting politically correct speech. 

The vast majority of Indian high school kids know very little about the magadh empire, the satavahanas, the kannauj triangle era, the chalukya-chola rivalry era, the fall of the Kabul-Shahi era, etc. 

 

This is from eons ago and maybe the exception, but my Karnataka SSLC history syllabus covered  Magadha, Satavahana and Chalukya/Chola in a good bit of detail - as much as they covered Mughals and Brits.  Of the Kannauj triangle, Rashtrakutas were (understandably) covered in a lot of detail, but I don't remember doing much of Pala and Pratihara empires.

 

The big problem with the way history was taught in those days was the focus on date-memorization and the siloing of the empires - very little by way of context and interaction among the empires.  It was boring for kids. 

 

 

 

[someone]

History is only written by "winners".  In our case by those whose did genocides, and invaded the nation. Then, many of our people are "afraid" of their own ancestry, the very fact that they were once Hindus is a taboo subject. Thus, we may be democratic and secular, yet we have some "blasphemy" about certain topics.

 

Much of our problems today, have roots of the past, and certainly correct history will help to resolve many problems. Yet, that window is gone, as the demographics and numbers is different today.

 

 

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

9 minutes ago, someone said:

History is only written by "winners".  In our case by those whose did genocides, and invaded the nation. Then, many of our people are "afraid" of their own ancestry, the very fact that they were once Hindus is a taboo subject. Thus, we may be democratic and secular, yet we have some "blasphemy" about certain topics.

 

Much of our problems today, have roots of the past, and certainly correct history will help to resolve many problems. Yet, that window is gone, as the demographics and numbers is different today.

 

 

 

 

I don't believe the window is gone.  It will take a long, concerted effort but it is possible.  We should also embrace the idea that our ancient and glorious history does not mean we reject modern tools for the betterment of today's people just because they were not handed to us by our culture.  

[someone]

39 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I don't believe the window is gone.  It will take a long, concerted effort but it is possible.  We should also embrace the idea that our ancient and glorious history does not mean we reject modern tools for the betterment of today's people just because they were not handed to us by our culture.  

Despite centuries,  the integration of certain minority groups within our country, hasn't worked. So why will it work in future given demographics changes? As I have always stated, Congress party is just a stop gap measure.

 

Then, India and Africa is a important comparison, where I argue that the world sees India same as a united Africa. So whatever native was backwardness, and then some religions came, and "liberated" us, gave knowledge and skills. Yet, we had the history of entrepreneurship , persistence, and that has allowed us to "grow" differently than Africa. Still, it's a ongoing battle, where our people are exploited, converted, and also of the rule and divide politics.

 

Thus, history and civilization is important, and can be of generational inspiration. Thereby, India aim to reclaim it's past economic glory.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by someone

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

This is from eons ago and maybe the exception, but my Karnataka SSLC history syllabus covered  Magadha, Satavahana and Chalukya/Chola in a good bit of detail - as much as they covered Mughals and Brits.  Of the Kannauj triangle, Rashtrakutas were (understandably) covered in a lot of detail, but I don't remember doing much of Pala and Pratihara empires.

 

The big problem with the way history was taught in those days was the focus on date-memorization and the siloing of the empires - very little by way of context and interaction among the empires.  It was boring for kids. 

 

 

 

 

Did you study in state syllabus like me? I was in Kannada medium till HS, the history we learnt was totally different from NCERT books. Now states have to comply to NCERT texts as well and this compliance is seen everywhere. Whitewashing of Islamists crimes - Ghajini looted Somnath temple many times, but he built a grand city in Ghajini with that money. Why is that facking important to know, esp if you are from India?

Edited January 14, 2021 by coffee_rules

[BacktoCricaddict]

55 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Did you study in state syllabus like me? I was in Kannada medium till HS, the history we learnt was totally different from NCERT books. Now states have to comply to NCERT texts as well and this compliance is seen everywhere. Whitewashing of Islamists crimes - Ghajini looted Somnath temple many times, but he built a grand city in Ghajini with that money. Why is that facking important to know, esp if you are from India?

Yessir.  Not Kannada medium but SSLC English medium.  It appears that NCERT compliance is the problem.  While I can see how it is beneficial to standardize Maths and Science to the (admittedly higher) NCERT standard, it should not be expected in the humanities.  It is especially important not to forget regional history, which I think our syllabus did a very good job of teaching us.  

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, someone said:

Despite centuries,  the integration of certain minority groups within our country, hasn't worked. So why will it work in future given demographics changes? As I have always stated, Congress party is just a stop gap measure.

 

Then, India and Africa is a important comparison, where I argue that the world sees India same as a united Africa. So whatever native was backwardness, and then some religions came, and "liberated" us, gave knowledge and skills. Yet, we had the history of entrepreneurship , persistence, and that has allowed us to "grow" differently than Africa. Still, it's a ongoing battle, where our people are exploited, converted, and also of the rule and divide politics.

 

Thus, history and civilization is important, and can be of generational inspiration. Thereby, India aim to reclaim it's past economic glory.

 

 

Agree with the overall gist of your post.  My point was that, in the zeal for nationalistic pride, India must not summarily reject scientific principles and advances made by other nations simply because they are from outside.  For many, Aatmanirbhar seems to imply doing things like our ancestors did it.  But with scientific advances, that may not be the best approach.  Aatmanirbhar should mean doing things in India to maximize benefit for today's Indian population, by whatever means necessary using technology developed by whoever.    For example, I have seen people reject agricultural genetics and biotechnology as western ideas even though it is clear that they will benefit Indian agriculture.  Same thing with principles of drug/molecule development and clinical trial analysis.  These ideas and products transcend national boundaries.  Just like India has embraced cell phones, cars and aircraft, it must also utilize agricultural and pharmaceutical technologies developed wherever and make them better with rigorous research and development by local scientists. 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

13 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Agree with the overall gist of your post.  My point was that, in the zeal for nationalistic pride, India must not summarily reject scientific principles and advances made by other nations simply because they are from outside.  For many, Aatmanirbhar seems to imply doing things like our ancestors did it.  But with scientific advances, that may not be the best approach.  Aatmanirbhar should mean doing things in India to maximize benefit for today's Indian population, by whatever means necessary using technology developed by whoever.    For example, I have seen people reject agricultural genetics and biotechnology as western ideas even though it is clear that they will benefit Indian agriculture.  Same thing with principles of drug/molecule development and clinical trial analysis.  These ideas and products transcend national boundaries.  Just like India has embraced cell phones, cars and aircraft, it must also utilize agricultural and pharmaceutical technologies developed wherever and make them better with rigorous research and development by local scientists. 

 

 

 

Arre swami, let's at least start it. There is resistance to even begin it, you want checks on it. Our education minister is proud of not changing a single line, comma, fullstop in the last 5 years. There is no hope of even starting it. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

14 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Arre swami, let's at least start it. There is resistance to even begin it, you want checks on it. Our education minister is proud of not changing a single line, comma, fullstop in the last 5 years. There is no hope of even starting it. 

Oh ... the history work can and should start immediately - no restrictions.  I was talking about the rhetoric and people's attitudes that surround these initiatives.  

[Yoda-esque]

Why's the govt not doing anything on this front?

[Muloghonto]

5 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

This is from eons ago and maybe the exception, but my Karnataka SSLC history syllabus covered  Magadha, Satavahana and Chalukya/Chola in a good bit of detail - as much as they covered Mughals and Brits.  Of the Kannauj triangle, Rashtrakutas were (understandably) covered in a lot of detail, but I don't remember doing much of Pala and Pratihara empires.

 

The big problem with the way history was taught in those days was the focus on date-memorization and the siloing of the empires - very little by way of context and interaction among the empires.  It was boring for kids. 

 

 

 

Interesting. I attended ICSE, we pretty much jumped from the guptas to Delhi sultanate and all in between was a few dates to memorize about the chalukyas and cholas

[coffee_rules]

On 1/14/2021 at 3:08 PM, Yoda-esque said:

Why's the govt not doing anything on this front?

we should do something like this to Pakkya

 

 

[ash]

Yes. While we are at it, Text books should also explain about the atrocities that lower caste face in this country, the oppression of lower castes under the Hindu kings, the concept of devadasis etc. They also should talk about the ruthless chola kings who captured and plundered people in the east. 

 

Indian history is always painted white in our text books

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, ash said:

Yes. While we are at it, Text books should also explain about the atrocities that lower caste face in this country, the oppression of lower castes under the Hindu kings, the concept of devadasis etc. They also should talk about the ruthless chola kings who captured and plundered people in the east. 

 

Indian history is always painted white in our text books

What ?!

Every lower class was oppressed in pre-modern world by their elites in every society. Thats kind of the ONLY thing that marxism gets right in its read on history. 
That being said, hindu society was one of the best functioning, peaceful and most mobile for its lower castes than almost ALL civilizations known to man- the chinese can be the only ones to claim any comparison/better - they are the ONLY other civilization to have thrown up as many lower caste royal dynasties as India has in its history.

 

Hindus are given far less credit in our history book than we deserve - so does the jains, buddhists etc empires & kingdoms in their significantly greater ethical demonstration than rest of the world.

We were not the blood sport barbarians of the west who claim civilization while enjoying slaves killing each other in the arenas or even having slavery for that matter.

 

[coffee_rules]

First baby steps by Pakkya

 

 

[Yoda-esque]

First baby steps by Pakkya
 
 

Technically Timur was an invader,he was in Delhi for two weeks during which approximately 1.2 lakh people were killed.

Babur was a ruler although he hated India and destroyed many statues and temples.

I would classify them as marauders/ invaders.

[ravishingravi]