Axar patel wud be the key against England

[ShoonyaSifar]

22 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

we often fall for classical , but dnt see whats effective same was said when jaddu was given debut as nadeem then also use to be top in domestic. But Guys like Axar jaddu become nightmare when it turns a bit due to the pace at which they bowl . In Fc nothing much that separates them 

 

What those stat do not show is that Axar Patel has never taken more than 29 wickets in a season, has not been the leader of his state attack. 

 

Nadeem OTOH has 56, 51, 46, 40 wickets in a season, shows he can on his own be a frontline spinners.

 

Have nothing against Axar but Nadeem for years has been the 2nd best SLA behind Jaddu performing season after season in Ranji and Duleep Trophies and for India A. Deserved a run. 

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Axar does not flight the ball much in FC cricket, relies more on his variations and z consistent line and length. With his high speed and cutters, haven't seen him get much drift or beat batsmen in flight but he is deadly on spinning tracks or on tracks with some bounce.

 

Nadeem IMO would have been a better choice with his classical SLA bowling with proper flight, loop and drift. 

Nadeem's a solid #11 with the bat, that goes against him a bit. And is now a couple of years older as well.  

 

But yes, mostly agree with you.

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

What those stat do not show is that Axar Patel has never taken more than 29 wickets in a season, has not been the leader of his state attack. 

 

Nadeem OTOH has 56, 51, 46, 40 wickets in a season, shows he can on his own be a frontline spinners.

 

Have nothing against Axar but Nadeem for years has been the 2nd best SLA behind Jaddu performing season after season in Ranji and Duleep Trophies and for India A. Deserved a run. 

It all depends on the role that they are being considered for - the one argument in Axar's favor is that he would be a better option for the 3rd spinner, if the team is confident in its first 2 spinners' wicket-taking abilities.   

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

What those stat do not show is that Axar Patel has never taken more than 29 wickets in a season, has not been the leader of his state attack. 

 

he doesnt have to be the leader here as well and ye 29 wkts konsa benchmark hai 

 

Quote

 

Nadeem OTOH has 56, 51, 46, 40 wickets in a season, shows he can on his own be a frontline spinners.

 

Yet Axar avg and S/r are near about...high number of wkts also depends on other bowlers like now with shami n umesh emergance ashwin n jaddu wkts have reduced in indian conditions

 

Quote

 

Have nothing against Axar but Nadeem for years has been the 2nd best SLA behind Jaddu performing season after season in Ranji and Duleep Trophies and for India A. Deserved a run. 

have nothing against nadeem but Axar is perfect like for like replacement

Edited January 24, 2021 by Ankit_sharma03

[Lone Wolf]

7 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Axar is as good as Nadeem in domestic

 

Need to have left arm spin or a leg spinner to tackle right handers. Wouldn't play Kuldeep. IMO, his type of bowler has no future in international cricket. Quick and accurate spinners are the way to go on Indian pitches.

Lol Yasir is pretty quick for a leggie & getting spanked left right n center against every team.  Kuldeep has done well in Tests till date barring bowling on a green Lords. 

If you have a killer Googly & bowling in range of 80-82 kph you will be successful..  Which Kuldeep actually is.  You need to back him though..  Leggies won't control the run rate but pick Wickets..  Warne developed most of his variations by playing many games. 

[Lone Wolf]

Kuldeep & to an extent Chahal's dip in form is the result of our pacers inability to pick wickets in Powerplay.  Most of the time in last year or so we saw..  70/0 in 12th over & Kuldeep or Chahal came in to bowl..  Which Pathetic really to have everytime spinners bail us out.   So those pointing out Kuldeep's  return in year & half need to look at how our pacers bowled in Powerplay. 

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

That is good in terms of batting.

 

But Kuldeep will miss out again, and with it the wrist spin option.

I wouldn't like an inconsistent wrist spinner when accurate finger spinners can do the job. If we had someone like Rahul Chahar then it was fine but Kuldeep is actually an off spinner against right handers and we already have two off spinner in Ashwin and Sundar.

[Ankit_sharma03]

In Indian condition where turn is easily avl if u can bowl at a good pace and consistent line n length u will trouble batsman which is what jaddu has done, and remember monty panesar. On a 4th 5th day pitch these guys are absolute nightmare to face

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

similar wkts will happen and he wud be more effective with SG ball and indian pitches

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Jaddu is a gun batsman now. Better than many specialists. 

 

Axar's ability to play high pace or good channel bowling is largely unknown.

 

And No.6 batsmen, averaging 35 in FC, does not work.

 

Axar batting at 7 in test matches would be a big risk.

 

 

 

Sundar avg 31

 

 

Watch this innings, he has good balance...intial years pace was a problem and even for jaddu who use to loose his balance but at 7,8 this guy is a damn good addition. His batting has improved 

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

15 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

he doesnt have to be the leader here as well and ye 29 wkts konsa benchmark hai 

 

 

Yet Axar avg and S/r are near about...high number of wkts also depends on other bowlers like now with shami n umesh emergance ashwin n jaddu wkts have reduced in indian conditions

 

have nothing against nadeem but Axar is perfect like for like replacement

One has 140 FC wickets, other has 440 wickets. If you thing the stats are comparable then there is nothing to say. 

 

29 wickets is no benchmark, but it's the highest that Axar has ever taken in a FC season. If you think Jadeja, our frontline spinner can be replaced by someone who wasn't good enough for India A tests in last 2-3 years, again it's fine.

 

Have got nothing more to add to the debate now

[Cricket_Fan]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

We shouldn't underestimate them.

 

Archer and Broad / Anderson will be there. Lesser batsmen may not find it that easy against the pace of Archer or skills of Broad / Andu

 

 

How many times have an overseas pacer been successful in India? I am pretty sure its so rare that we can count on our fingers. Pace without skill to reverse the SG ball is just gonna be cannon fodder on Indian pitches. You can see how Nortje fared in the last SA series who bowls at higher average pace than Archer. And what I have seen of Archer, he gets tired even in England and don’t see him maintaining his intensity in hot Indian conditions.

I have seen the likes of Zaheer Khan smoking Mitchell Johnson in tests in India. Both Axar and Ashwin are good to bat at No 7 in India.

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

One has 140 FC wickets, other has 440 wickets. If you thing the stats are comparable then there is nothing to say. 

 

obv na one has played 39 games vs 117 games, no one can take 400 wkts in 39 games

 

5 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

 

29 wickets is no benchmark, but it's the highest that Axar has ever taken in a FC season. If you think Jadeja, our frontline spinner can be replaced by someone who wasn't good enough for India A tests in last 2-3 years, again it's fine.

 

first of all a number !1 cant replace jaddu

2nd who said Axar has not been good enough for India-A, the guy went and took wkts in county also 

 

 

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Sundar avg 31

 

 

Averages 32.4 in FC ... but small sample size.

 

We saw Sundar's batting ability in Australia and that is what is more important now.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

Watch this innings, he has good balance...intial years pace was a problem and even for jaddu who use to loose his balance but at 7,8 this guy is a damn good addition. His batting has improved 

 

 

 

He is too eager to drive ... trying to drive widish balls even.  The bowlers in the video are so slow that he is getting away with it.

[helperononline]

Hope india goes for axar,Kuldeep and ashwin 

Dropping sundar will be a tough decision but I don't see think England has  that many  left handers to play two off spinners 

Edited January 24, 2021 by helperononline

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Averages 32.4 in FC ... but small sample size.

 

We saw Sundar's batting ability in Australia and that is what is more important now.

 

31 was prior to this test and yea we saw and we knew but AXar batting ability is also pretty good 

 

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

He is too eager to drive ... trying to drive widish balls even.  The bowlers in the video are so slow that he is getting away with it.

 

what pace does england have apart from Archer who has started to hold himself in test , there is no mark wood 

Eager to drive is fine it wont be seaming around, By this logic even when sundar drives he play away from the body so he is also a candidate of getting caught in slips . Infact sundar doesnt put full weight on front foot while driving so everyone has an issue . These are indian condition which is why im not worried and i wnt worry abroad  coz my expectation isnt a 100 from them .

[GautiMaan]

Cant help but bring this up 

https://www.hotstar.com/in/sports/sports/22-in-last-over-dc-win-thriller/1260045112

 

The Axar vs Jadeja battle will be interesting in the coming years

[Nikhil_cric]

How is his bowling for the long format. I only ever saw him as a T20 bowler.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Nikhil_cric said:

How is his bowling for the long format. I only ever saw him as a T20 bowler.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

 

[express bowling]

13 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

31 was prior to this test and yea we saw and we knew but AXar batting ability is also pretty good 

 

 

what pace does england have apart from Archer who has started to hold himself in test , there is no mark wood 

Eager to drive is fine it wont be seaming around

 

We are looking for a long term solution and not a player for this series only. This is because Jaddu is having injury issues off late and a backup needs to be kept.

 

I would be happy if Axar is good ... but will keep an open mind rather than justify his presence by any means.

 

 

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

By this logic even when sundar drives he play away from the body so he is also a candidate of getting caught in slips . Infact sundar doesnt put full weight on front foot while driving so everyone has an issue .

 

 

Sundar is much more selective in his shot selection. Felt it every time I have seen him bat.