Do we have our Fab 4 Back

[Trichromatic]

Rahane is better than Ganguly. 

Any opener is as good as Sehwag overseas. 

 

[Trichromatic]

Averages of batsmen having peak from 2003-2013 is heavily inflated with flattest pitches and poor quality bowling. 

 

Averages of 56-57 during that phase is equivalent to 50 in current phase. 

[Jimmy Cliff]

2 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Rahane is better than Ganguly. 

Any opener is as good as Sehwag overseas. 

 

 

No.

 

[Gollum]

22 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

current group of  4 of senior most in Kohli, Pujara,Rahane & Rohit are atleast 4 levels below FAB4 of Sachin,Dravid,Sourav & Laxman. If we add Sehwag  & another batsman from this era into the mix , the gap gets even wider. 

Ok so which are the bunches 3 levels below, 2 levels below, 1 level below Fab 4? 

[Adamant]

Kohli and Pujara....... Terrific two

Others are not good enough. 

But Pant and Gill have the ability to join them. 

[Gollum]

How come fab 4 never did anything close to what this inferior bunch (missing Kohli) did in Sydney and Brisbane this month? Lack of cojones? Or were the bowling attacks they faced overseas superior to Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc, Lyon on a consistent basis? 

[Gollum]

Dravid was a serial failure in RSA, Aus.

 

VVS was a failure in Eng, inconsistent in NZ, RSA.

 

Sehwag was a failure in RSA, NZ, Eng.

 

Dada ok, nothing extraordinary.

 

Only Sachin was an all-conditions player but could never dominate an entire series like Kohli, Che. 

 

They were still better than current set of batsmen but let us stop overrating them. Aus and RSA (arguably) batting units superior to Fab 4 in that era but never had these buzzwords attached 

 

Oh and Fab 4 never peaked together, Sachin was average in the 2002-06 period, Dravid was bang average in 2007-10. Sehwag inconsistent in early-mid 2000s and even VVS became reliable only towards end of 2000s. Dada had a peak post-2006, that's it. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Gollum

[putrevus]

Let Gill score a hundred before lumping him with ATG players.Kohli disappearing completely from some series is major black mark on his career. You cannot be in any conversation of ATG batsmen if you completely vanish from series as a batsman. This middle order is not even close talent wise to that Fab4.

 

That Fab four had all the talent in the world but massively underacheived for their talent.They  were weak in putting up fight in adverse conditions. 

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

Oh and Fab 4 never peaked together, Sachin was average in the 2002-06 period, Dravid was bang average in 2007-10. Sehwag inconsistent in early-mid 2000s and even VVS became reliable only towards end of 2000s. Dada had a peak post-2006, that's it. 

That is the problem , they never performed as a unit thus massively under achieved for their talent. They never rose to occasion. Kohli is following their footsteps which is bad.

[Jimmy Cliff]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Dravid was a serial failure in RSA, Aus.

 

VVS was a failure in Eng, inconsistent in NZ, RSA.

 

Sehwag was a failure in RSA, NZ, Eng.

 

Dada ok, nothing extraordinary.

 

Only Sachin was an all-conditions player but could never dominate an entire series like Kohli, Che. 

 

They were still better than current set of batsmen but let us stop overrating them. Aus and RSA (arguably) batting units superior to Fab 4 in that era but never had these buzzwords attached 

 

Oh and Fab 4 never peaked together, Sachin was average in the 2002-06 period, Dravid was bang average in 2007-10. Sehwag inconsistent in early-mid 2000s and even VVS became reliable only towards end of 2000s. Dada had a peak post-2006, that's it. 

 

Came close in 2008-10 where SRT, Sehwag, Laxman were all great and were backed up by Gambhir who looked like he was gonna be at least an Indian ATG. Only Dravid was off colour in that period. 

[Gollum]

1 minute ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

Came close in 2008-10 where SRT, Sehwag, Laxman were all great and were backed up by Gambhir who looked like he was gonna be at least an Indian ATG. Only Dravid was off colour in that period. 

Yeah, that was closest. But even there Dada was retired and in came Yuvi/Raina who let's be honest were barely Jaddu level with the bat in test cricket, in fact I'll even take pre-2017 Ashwin the batsman above those 2.   

[zen]

I am not sure if I can trust anyone in the “fab 4” to even draw a test in SENA in the 4th innings

 

Now Pujara is my first pick in tests among batsmen from 1990 onwards. Sehwag 2nd (for his high SR impact innings) 

 

If by “better” means playing a few good looking straight drives while at the crease then yeah there can be better looking players at the crease 

[putrevus]

13 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

Came close in 2008-10 where SRT, Sehwag, Laxman were all great and were backed up by Gambhir who looked like he was gonna be at least an Indian ATG. Only Dravid was off colour in that period. 

Gambhir made most out playing against weak teams. SL  at home and NZ away when they had horrible bowling attack. That match saving 100 is big plus for him but a major blot on Fab4 to be in that position against that bowling attack.

 

I really thought Gambhir would end up being better player than Cook.

[Jimmy Cliff]

11 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Yeah, that was closest. But even there Dada was retired and in came Yuvi/Raina who let's be honest were barely Jaddu level with the bat in test cricket, in fact I'll even take pre-2017 Ashwin the batsman above those 2.   

 

Yep. As a "collective" batting line-up, the phase between the 2007 and 2011 WCs was our peak. No wonder we enjoyed our best results in that period with series wins in ENG/NZ, drawn series in RSA and a competitive loss in AUS. Of course that co-incided with Zak's peak as well.

[Jimmy Cliff]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Gambhir made most out playing against weak teams. SL  at home and NZ away when they had horrible bowling attack. That match saving 100 is big plus for him but a major blot on Fab4 to be in that position against that bowling attack.

 

I really thought Gambhir would end up being better player than Cook.

 

He did well against pretty much everyone between 2008-10. Even in the RSA series in 2010-11, he averaged 60+ against peak Steyn IIRC. Can't underestimate that especially when in the past alleged aTG oPeNers from India used to be humiliated by the best WI/AUS attacks of their time . Gambo just wasn't the same after the concussion in England 2011.

[neel roy]

3 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Rahane is better than Ganguly. 

Any opener is as good as Sehwag overseas. 

 

I disagree. Ganguly was gem in turning wickets. We dont give him credit. We all are jumping on Pants 89 but dont forget the best 4 th innings played overseas during that decade was Gangulys match winning 98 not out against peak Srilanka led by Muralitharan chasing 250 plus. Rahane is a dud in turning wickets. Ganguly had 5 SENA Centuries which now when we think of it is terrific and he scored a freaking 239 against Pakistan when India were 69/4 .. and dont forget in all the matches Ganguly scored a century India never lost..

 

the thing we should mention is presence of rock solid Gambhir with 4500 runs in that era along with fab 4 and fab 5. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by neel roy

[neel roy]

2 hours ago, zen said:

I am not sure if I can trust anyone in the “fab 4” to even draw a test in SENA in the 4th innings

 

Now Pujara is my first pick in tests among batsmen from 1990 onwards. Sehwag 2nd (for his high SR impact innings) 

 

If by “better” means playing a few good looking straight drives while at the crease then yeah there can be better looking players at the crease 

Drawing a test in SENA in 4th innings: we won in Adelaide in 2003 and drew in Adelaide 2008, we drew in Wellington, Capetown and Manchester..all 4th innings chases

[gattaca]

5 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

"Fab 4" lol. Have people already forgotten our last tours of England, South Africa and New Zealand? Pujara and Rahane aren't in the league of Dravid and Laxman. 

India lost terribly to NZ in 2006 as well with Fab Four. NZ and England will be hard placed for us to tour as we struggle against swing.

[Trichromatic]

9 minutes ago, neel roy said:

I disagree. Ganguly was gem in turning wickets. We dont give him credit. We all are jumping on Pants 89 but dont forget the best 4 th innings played overseas during that decade was Gangulys match winning 98 not out against peak Srilanka led by Muralitharan chasing 250 plus. Rahane is a dud in turning wickets. Ganguly had 5 SENA Centuries which now when we think of it is terrific and he scored a freaking 239 against Pakistan when India were 69/4 .. and dont forget in all the matches Ganguly scored a century India never lost..

 

the thing we should mention is presence of rock solid Gambhir with 4500 runs in that era along with fab 4 and fab 5. 

How does all those things make him better than Rahane? 

[zen]

49 minutes ago, neel roy said:

Drawing a test in SENA in 4th innings: we won in Adelaide in 2003 and drew in Adelaide 2008, we drew in Wellington, Capetown and Manchester..all 4th innings chases

 

So? The point is not that they have never done that as even broken clocks tell the time twice a day ... over a long long period, there will be selected instances ... The point is that I wouldn't trust them in general

Edited January 30, 2021 by zen