Vaccine theory

[rkt.india]

26 minutes ago, urbestfriend said:

 

TBH, I have huge doubt on quality of vaccine at this point. Who knows they are giving saline in the garb of vaccine. Adulteration is huge possibility.

[Jimmy Cliff]

https://informscotland.uk/2021/04/covid-rates-post-vaccination-around-the-world/

 

"There are many many factors, not the least of which are testing strategy and the reporting of vaccination numbers, from around the world that could cause reporting artefacts which may be seen in the observations seen here. But what is very clear looking at data worldwide, is that vaccinations are certainly not associated with a reliable fall in covid cases in any predictable timeframe. This, alongside the observations in the trial, surely must be addressed. What is happening here? Is it just that vaccinations are coincidentally being rolled out at the same time as outbreaks are due? In very many places?

Or is the vaccine not working immediately? If not, why not? How long does it take to see an effect of infection reduction at a population and individual level?

Or is the vaccine making people more susceptible to infection? If this is the case (which is biologically plausible according to many we are in touch with), is this a temporary effect? What causes it? Should we mitigate against it? Should we ensure people are vaccinated in a low covid environment? Do vaccinated people need extra protection immediately following vaccination?

How long does it take for any increased susceptibility to diminish?

We must know the answers to these questions. Vaccinations are intended to be offered to every man, woman and child in the country, even though many people simply are not susceptible to covid, or have seen off an infection easily. We must understand what the benefit to the community is before we can assess the risk of vaccination properly to the individual if most individuals are only to be vaccinated for the benefit of the community.

We are told that everyone must be vaccinated. But then that restrictions still can’t end even after that has happened. Why is that? Is it because the vaccine doesn’t prevent transmission? How can free informed consent be given under these conditions?"

[BacktoCricaddict]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

doesn’t prevent transmission?

We know now.  It does prevent transmission.  But we didn't know until many weeks later because ... well ... it needed to be studied.  Until the point we knew, we were asked to stay cautious.  I think that is reasonable.  

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/yes-vaccines-block-most-transmission-of-covid-19

 

There are also data that show that - for exposures that occur within the first 12 days after vaccination exposure - initial viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people are comparable.  After that, there is a dramatic reduction in viral load in vaccinated people.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.06.21251283v1

 

Not once did any scientist claim that vaccines put a bubble around you and prevent infection 100%.  We've always said that they prevent serious illness in almost everyone who receives them and get exposed.  Not once did any scientist claim that vaccines are the only solution - I have myself posted the Swiss cheese model here 4 times.  It is a dishonest strawman argument to say that we presented them as the only solution.  

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[Jimmy Cliff]

12 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

We know now.  It does prevent transmission.  But we didn't know until many weeks later because ... well ... it needed to be studied.  Until the point we knew, we were asked to stay cautious.  I think that is reasonable.  

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/yes-vaccines-block-most-transmission-of-covid-19

 

Please get in touch with WHO then as this is what they say:

 

 

 

 

 

[urbestfriend]

Go through this thread...Very interesting. 

 

 

[Jimmy Cliff]

16 minutes ago, urbestfriend said:

Go through this thread...Very interesting. 

 

 

 

He is still able to tweet which confirms the Vaccine saved his life. tHaNKs sCiEnCe. Get vaccinated ASAP!

[Real McCoy]

11 minutes ago, urbestfriend said:

Go through this thread...Very interesting. 

 

 

Also go to the comments section where one guy questions whether he was wearing masks and maintaining social distancing. This will be the answer if every response fails to address the situation. The doctor himself doesn't know how to differentiate the strains. I have been to enough hospitals in the past for my mother. This will be the excuse they give. Even relatives in the medical industry won't give up the secrets. I have one relative who will use medical terms to describe something that can be explained in layman terms.

[Real McCoy]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

He is still able to tweet which confirms the Vaccine saved his life. tHaNKs sCiEnCe. Get vaccinated ASAP!

Yeah that's a bit odd. He is having fever and oxygen levels dropping but still have time to tweet

[vvvslaxman]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

TBH, I have huge doubt on quality of vaccine at this point. Who knows they are giving saline in the garb of vaccine. Adulteration is huge possibility.

 

It takes about 2 weeks to kick in. That is what i heard. 

[sandeep]

5 hours ago, Mariyam said:

People aren't infallible. People make mistakes.

 

And there isn't much of a track record to indicate that the "courts" are an 'upgrade' from the babus, if at all.  

[coffee_rules]

11 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

And there isn't much of a track record to indicate that the "courts" are an 'upgrade' from the babus, if at all.  

But they cause more harm adding to the confusion. They should not be in business of which states need more MT 02. Delhi, WB are asking for more while Karnataka which actually has more cases than these states are asking for more, but get less. 

They don’t have jurisdiction and are over-reaching

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, urbestfriend said:

Go through this thread...Very interesting. 

 

 

Vaccines are supposed to neutralize different strains. But maybe covishield isn't that effective as it is adenovirus vector vaccine. Covaxin will be much better in this regard as it is whole inactivated virion vaccine. 

[coffee_rules]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Vaccines are supposed to neutralize different strains. But maybe covishield isn't that effective as it is adenovirus vector vaccine. Covaxin will be much better in this regard as it is whole inactivated virion vaccine. 

Government is bad at publishing numbers, we need among postive cases. How many were vaccinated and a projection of each strain among infected. It has to be a projection because that data is available only from lab tests taking days. There s 617 that is known to be handled bt Covaxin, but what about 618 and N440?

[BacktoCricaddict]

11 hours ago, urbestfriend said:

For ex: Seychelles used AZ and chinese vaccine, so there is no point comparing that with Israel data which used pfizer. 

Fair enough.  I have made the mistake of clubbing all vaccines into one.  

 

As for your question about 1st and 2nd dose, there is nothing miraculous like you sardonically suggested.

 

The first dose gets the immune system primed.  It's like the prep phase.  The immune response is partially turned on.  The second dose revs it up and gets it to the maximum point it can go.  And it won't happen overnight.  The body takes a while to recognize the antigen, make antibodies, make memory T-cells and store them. 

 

These are all highly proven concepts from decades if not a century of research with multiple infectious diseases.  In addition, they have also been shown to be true specifically during the Covid vaccine clinical trials by measuring antibody levels and memory T-cell levels at various post-vaccination intervals.    

 

So, it is extremely important during this 2-week gap to stay cautious - mask-wearing, staying away from public as much as possible etc., because, if within this incomplete immunity period, the real virus hits, your body is just not ready to fight it off.  So, please tell everyone who gets vaccinated to stay put for 2 weeks after the 2nd dose (or in the case of J&J, just the first dose).

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[Jimmy Cliff]

 

 

Worthwhile thread with data from lots of countries. Looks like unfortunately and coincidentally too many of them had organized Kumbh Melas, political rallies etc at around the same time when they started their vaccination drives. 

 

 

[Mariyam]

5 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

And there isn't much of a track record to indicate that the "courts" are an 'upgrade' from the babus, if at all.  

Of course they are.

 

Babudom has a vested interest here. In general, babudom thrives on ambiguity. On lack of transparency. On ability to control the supply demand situation by subterfuge. The courts are seeking clarity here. And trying to implement adherence to SoPs.

 

In the context of the struggle against Covid, what is it that you find objectionable?

[Mariyam]

5 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

But they cause more harm adding to the confusion. They should not be in business of which states need more MT 02. Delhi, WB are asking for more while Karnataka which actually has more cases than these states are asking for more, but get less. 

They don’t have jurisdiction and are over-reaching

Way to twist things!

 

What has the SC ordered here?

Let me break it down for you: They have set up a task force to streamline allocation of oxygen* and availability of essential drugs. 

 

(*) This means they will audit to ensure that supplies allocated are reaching their destinations. They will also ensure that oxygen utilisation is optimum.

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

9 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

Please get in touch with WHO then as this is what they say:

 

 

 

 

 

I did!

[coffee_rules]

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Way to twist things!

 

What has the SC ordered here?

Let me break it down for you: They have set up a task force to streamline allocation of oxygen* and availability of essential drugs. 

 

(*) This means they will audit to ensure that supplies allocated are reaching their destinations. They will also ensure that oxygen utilisation is optimum.

 

The centre does allocation and states do distribution. Here the question is demand of oxygen by states being less than allocation, who is to decide how center allocates fairly. This is the bureaucracy deciding and states are causing  frenzy . Frankly Delhi HC had no trust on AAP Govt to distribute fairly. 
 

DhC says Delhi needs 700 mt and holds centre in contempt if they don’t comply. How is HC in power to order this to the Govt 

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/oxygen-supply-to-national-capital-sc-stays-delhi-high-courts-contempt-notice-against-centre/articleshow/82403793.cms

 

The allocation is done by a central institution and not by any political party. This tweet resonates the sentiment on the judiciary

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

All I see from people skeptical about vaccines are those showing anecdotal evidence, some tweets from anti-vaxxers and CTs. Are you virologists part of any study or papers refuting the claims of the vaccines?