Mariyam Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 1 minute ago, rkt.india said: But why do people sympathize with Hamas, Palestine? Many sympathise on religious grounds. Is that your gold standard to emulate? Dushman ka dushman mera dost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 24 minutes ago, Mariyam said: @coffee_rules The Right Wing's ( Dharmics as you call them) 'support' to Israel is mainly based on the religion of their opposition. Lets not delude ourselves here. There are so many contentious border issues that China ( a rival, in the truest sense) has with Taiwan/Japan etc. Some instances of Chinese jets/military landing/making artificial islands inside territorial waters of other nations. Do you see this kind of support for the Taiwanese? Never. Its always when the other party ( mostly erring, I admit) is Muslim that the Indian right wing is active. Be it in France or Israel or the UK. False equivalence comparing to China -Taiwan , Taiwanese are not sending rockets across nor are Chinese defending by bombing Taiwan. You can’t fault Dharmics to support Israel, UK etc because of political importance. You can call it hate. The partition of the country happened on their demands and even now Madras HC had to quash a petition from Muslims as they don’t want to see Hindu festivals in their dominated area. This is a conflict that can’t be resolved in our lifetime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: You are deluding yourself if you deny knowing about a Muslim veto power existed in Congress or still exists in India. You want to curtail Tehaswi’s right to FoE because he is an MP? O yes, support to CAA does when there are countries like USA, China, EU chiding India for passing laws internal to India, any support from outside matters diplomatically. The 'veto' power real or perceived has *NOTHING* to do with Govt of India's stand on the Israeli Palestinian issue. Can you back this up? Was it a part of any manifesto? Were votes sought on this issue? Tejaswi can use his FoE all he wishes to. Its just unbecoming of an elected representative of the people of India. I ask again, what has India gained? Do these comments amount to India gaining anything ever or will they open possibilities of only a loss of opportunity for India? The 'chiding' that you talk about means NOTHING. Resulted in no change in economic activity with India. If anything India got closer to the Western nations in the last 2 years. Israel's support similarly means NOTHING in the real world. None of these people are in any position to make India change her stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, Mariyam said: Many sympathise on religious grounds. Is that your gold standard to emulate? Dushman ka dushman mera dost? I don't even believe in any religion. All religions are bad, some more than others. My point is Hamas is a terrorist organisation and my question was in that regard, not religious. Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Gollum said: Indians shouldn't bother about what happens in ME, always trouble brewing in that area. Israel can take care of itself with able support from Uncle Sam, regarding Palestine let Arab countries deal with the unrest. Comical to see Indians getting so invested in this conflict when we have a full-blown mega-crisis affecting every neighborhood in our country. I do have sympathies for Palestinians, but hate Hamas type groups. Israel is no innocent party like some of our RW folks believe, neither is their lobby working from US/Europe, am I wrong@Real McCoy @Jimmy Cliff? Deaths/injuries of Indians working in that area is our concern, beyond that forget it. Pisses me off when my fellow countrymen are ill-treated in UAE/Saudi/Qatar or when nurses working in ISIS areas, Israel etc suffer for no fault of theirs. Condolences to Ms. Santosh's family, hope no other Indian is caught in the crossfire. That is the extent of my interest in this conflict. India has good relations with Israel as well as the Arab world. Trust our diplomats to do what is required. Can we switch focus back to the Chinese virus please? Why shouldn’t Indians show support to Israel? Diplomatically, they have never hurt India despite Indian governments being hostile to Israel throughout their existence. A lot of Israeli students visit India now (cheap foreign travel destination) https://www.tripoto.com/india/trips/why-israelis-in-india-love-india-897940 Hence, we see diplomatic requests like this to Indians to win a narrative war: raki05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mariyam said: The 'veto' power real or perceived has *NOTHING* to do with Govt of India's stand on the Israeli Palestinian issue. Can you back this up? Was it a part of any manifesto? Were votes sought on this issue? You are wrongly informed about Russia’s support for Israel. Since 1944, Stalin supported the state of Israel and sympathized with Jews because of Holocaust. Russia was the second country to recognize the state of Israel and provided weapons support to Israel in the 1948 war. Why would Nehru choose to support Palestine and shun Israel if Russia supported Israel? You should read some of Maulana Azad’s influence on Nehru. Much of INC actions are to not hurt the sentiments of Muslims. Be it in teaching history, “we can’t talk about Islamic invaders destruction of temples” to diplomatic relations. We can’t support Israel because it would hurt Muslims. He might be doing it for votes or he loved Muslims overtly. The same trend continued with IG/Rajiv too. BJP manifest in 1998 showed increase relations with Israel for that purpose. https://www.orfonline.org/research/30081/?amp “This was Nehru’s explanation for India voting against the partition of Palestine, and the creation of a Jewish State. The compelling reasons were India’s own partition, India’s large Muslim population which, like other Muslims elsewhere, was instinctively pro-Palestinian, seeing the issue as an Islamic cause, and India’s need for support from inter alia Arab countries, in the impending 1948 war over Kashmir with Pakistan.” Quote Tejaswi can use his FoE all he wishes to. Its just unbecoming of an elected representative of the people of India. I ask again, what has India gained? Do these comments amount to India gaining anything ever or will they open possibilities of only a loss of opportunity for India? Not everything a MP does should be of the people and for the people. Not everything they do should be about benefit to his constituency only. They have personal opinions, Arvind Kejariwal used to tweet movie reviews for gods’ sake. I don’t mock that, they have their lives. Quote The 'chiding' that you talk about means NOTHING. Resulted in no change in economic activity with India. If anything India got closer to the Western nations in the last 2 years. Israel's support similarly means NOTHING in the real world. None of these people are in any position to make India change her stance. Not every impact is tangible. You can’t put a monetary value. Israeli tourists were increasingly visiting India before Covid year after year. Israeli trade in agriculture, science and defence has increased many fold since 2014 with such bi-lateral support of people. Diplomatic wins in UN affects a lot of Foreign Affairs , trade, WTO negotiations and helps India in many ways economically. Also , in defence imports there is healthy competition now between US, France and Russia for India market and India will save a lot in $s by choosing better and cheaper weapons/materials from Israel Edited May 12, 2021 by coffee_rules raki05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, rkt.india said: But why do people sympathize with Hamas, Palestine? Hamas shouldn't be supported but people support Palestine because they are people lost everything . I am not 100% on history but Isreal was nation set up by mainly British as promise of giving Jews country after 1st world war so they divided I think part of Ottaman empire and created new country Isreal (note that there were not many Jews at time in Palestine, after creation they came from other countries and settled here mainly Europe ) and thus began war with every war Isreal won they started Occupy more and more of Palestine territory resulting in deaths of natives and losing their land. Currently Isreal occupies territories which belongs to Palestine's and if there is even small incident from terrorist's Isreal acts with brute force killing lot innocent hence they Sympathy Its very hard pick sides here each is right in its own and wrong in its way this all due great British interference and their successful divide and rule Edited May 12, 2021 by rising Jimmy Cliff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cliff Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 18 minutes ago, rising said: Hamas shouldn't be supported but people support Palestine because they are people lost everything . I am not 100% on history but Isreal was nation set up by mainly British as promise of giving Jews country after 1st world war so they divided I think part of Ottaman empire and created new country Isreal (note that there were not many Jews at time in Palestine, after creation they came from other countries and settled here mainly Europe ) and thus began war with every war Isreal won they started Occupy more and more of Palestine territory resulting in deaths of natives and losing their land. Currently Isreal occupies territories which belongs to Palestine's and if there is even small incident from terrorist's Isreal acts with brute force killing lot innocent hence they Sympathy Its very hard pick sides here each is right in its own and wrong in its way this all due great British interference and their successful divide and rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda-esque Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Come on now. That doesn't mean that he supports the killing of the BJP workers! No , but it does mean that he doesn't believe that the news it real..so basically choosing to ignore something more serious since it pertains to our own national security. raki05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted May 12, 2021 Author Share Posted May 12, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickydev Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) Brits messed up the retrieval from their colonies and so many ethnicities were left fighting for scraps whether it be the Kurds, Cypriots, Palestinians, Jews, Irish..not to mention the tribes of western Africa and the SC itself. I hope Scotland breaks away, Ireland unites and they get a taste of their medicine. Coming to the topic, I have always been fascinated by the might of Israel and their will to survive in such hostile neighborhood. However can never support their actions against the Palestinians and their treatment as second class citizens in the West Bank. The settlements are illegal, but they are pretty much bulldozing ahead without any consequences. And add to this I think modern Israelis are opposed to the two state solution themselves. Cant see any resolution whatsoever. Edited May 12, 2021 by Vickydev ravishingravi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texy Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, rkt.india said: I don't even believe in any religion. All religions are bad, some more than others. My point is Hamas is a terrorist organisation and my question was in that regard, not religious. They see it as a freedom fighting org fighting against muslim oppression. Similar to how Israel gets their blood pumping as oppose to ISIS cutting off kufr heads. Similar thought process, your 'terrorist' is our freedom fighter Edited May 12, 2021 by Texy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 5 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said: Can you share the source? British were involved. What divide and rule serves them after the partition when they both were independent nations. I want to blame Brits for all ills, but partition is solely because of people don’t want to live next to or “ruled” by the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cliff Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Can you share the source? British were involved. What divide and rule serves them after the partition when they both were independent nations. I want to blame Brits for all ills, but partition is solely because of people don’t want to live next to or “ruled” by the other. The New Global Order coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEng Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 13 hours ago, Mariyam said: @coffee_rules The Right Wing's ( Dharmics as you call them) 'support' to Israel is mainly based on the religion of their opposition. Lets not delude ourselves here. There are so many contentious border issues that China ( a rival, in the truest sense) has with Taiwan/Japan etc. Some instances of Chinese jets/military landing/making artificial islands inside territorial waters of other nations. Do you see this kind of support for the Taiwanese? Never. Its always when the other party ( mostly erring, I admit) is Muslim that the Indian right wing is active. Be it in France or Israel or the UK. Palestinians are like Kashmiri pandits here and they are legitimate victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 20 minutes ago, MechEng said: Palestinians are like Kashmiri pandits here and they are legitimate victims. Kashmiri Pandits are not throwing rockets at mosques. The plight of palestiniens is genuine but resorting to Hamas to resolve your disputes is not the way. In many ways, Hamas makes Israel look better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedheat Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Stand with Israel raki05 and coffee_rules 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, MechEng said: Palestinians are like Kashmiri pandits here and they are legitimate victims. How Palestinians are like Kashmiri pandits? You know where did Palestine cone from. It came from Roman Empire who destroyed jew community in Israel, changed the name of Israel and Jerusalem. It's the homeland of Jews. It's the Jews who are more comparable to Kashmiri pandits, executed, murdered, kicked out of their homeland. History didn't start in 1948. Edited May 13, 2021 by rkt.india raki05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 11 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said: British didn't divide Israel and Palestine. That idea never took place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEng Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, rkt.india said: How Palestinians are like Kashmiri pandits? You know where did Palestine cone from. It came from Roman Empire who destroyed jew community in Israel, changed the name of Israel and Jerusalem. It's the homeland of Jews. It's the Jews who are more comparable to Kashmiri pandits, executed, murdered, kicked out of their homeland. History didn't start in 1948. But what does the atrocities of Romans had to do with 20th century Palestinians? Today if I bump into your house and force you to leave because some 200 years ago my great great great grandfather was the owner of the land where your house is and got unfairly evicted at that time, is that okay? Edited May 13, 2021 by MechEng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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