Kohli poorest captain

[Praveen 06]

1 hour ago, Sandeep99 said:

Sachin was better than lol but even then he realized he's better off as a batsman and gave up captaincy. This was when the world was at his feet. Can't expect this self assessment and humility from the egomaniac even as he continues to gather defeat after defeat.

Why so much explanation. I am also said  Sachin was greatest Indian captain

[mishra]

I think I have been telling from last month that this is going to be overcast and lush green. Who the hell select team with two spinners in overcast conditions. We could have had a toss between Jadeja and Sharadul but Siraj's selection was no brainer.

[Texan]

Kohli is not meant for finals. He does not have the mental fortitude to be able to succeed in finals. It was very evident from the statements he made before the final that one game is not going to define the team's legacy. He had already lost the game there. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

23 minutes ago, Texan said:

Kohli is not meant for finals. He does not have the mental fortitude to be able to succeed in finals. It was very evident from the statements he made before the final that one game is not going to define the team's legacy. He had already lost the game there. 

He is right, though.  This team's legacy is best defined by the 3 matches they played in Dec 2020-Jan 2021.  With grit.  With confidence. With joy.  And without ...

Edited June 21, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[Adamant]

If after all this we make a comeback, all those against Kohli should leave this forum if they have a semblance of self respect. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

25 minutes ago, Adamant said:

If after all this we make a comeback, all those against Kohli should leave this forum if they have a semblance of self respect. 

I won't leave, but I will joyfully eat crow biryani. 

 

It's not about for-or-against.  One can be for him, want him to succeed, but still offer some criticism if they disagree with something he does.  

 

There is no doubt the guy is an immense talent, an ATG bat who has more passion and determination to succeed than almost anyone else I have seen, and one who brings a competitive edge to the team.  But at the same time, it is difficult to ignore how the team looked deflated in Adelaide, but surged once he was gone.  Also, to time and again see him go for experience over current form or horses-for-courses, is a bit disappointing.  Can I do a better job than him?  Of course not.  But, as fans, we disagree based on what little we know - we will have opposing opinions about team selections no matter who is captain.  Should we all shut up and leave if those opinions turn out to be incorrect?  That's harsh, bhai.  

 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[maniac]

2 hours ago, Praveen 06 said:

Why so much explanation. I am also said  Sachin was greatest Indian captain

Sachin almost won in SA the first time India had a decent fast bowling pair in Srinath and Prasad. That too against Cronje’s SA team.

 

That team had batting coach Vikram Rathour opening, VVS Laxman pushed to open and legendary bowlers like Dodda Ganesh and David Johnson. On top of that it had Azhar politicking and fixing like crazy. Azhar did play a couple of sensational knocks during that period though but he was just attacking like crazy.

 

Next series, He again almost won in WI against a competent WI side with a bowling attack of Kuruvilla and Prasad. The same game where team wasn’t able to chase 100 odd in the 4th innings.

 

one game was a draw due to rain when we were on the cusp on victory and the other where we couldn’t chase a low target.

 

However the conclusion always seems to be Sachin is a choker and a poor captain. Sachin problem was not backing talent. Yuvi,Zak,Dhoni,Sehwag and Bhajji seem to be genuinely grateful to Sachin and not like forced PR we see these days. Neither was he a bad strategist because he was the guy at mid-on talking to bowlers on most occasions.

 

His problem was while he had good acumen he wasn’t a master strategist and did not interfere or be demanding in selections like Ganguly or Dhoni.

 

Not the greatest captain but a leader among men for sure and not as bad he is made out to be and Sachin taking the option of playing under someone else and focusing on his batting for the greater good shows 2 things-

 

his confidence in his ability and lack of insecurity because how many captains do we see who hide their mediocre performances under that guise of captaincy.

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

12 minutes ago, maniac said:

Sachin almost won in SA the first time India had a decent fast bowling pair in Srinath and Prasad. That too against Cronje’s SA team.

 

That team had batting coach Vikram Rathour opening, VVS Laxman pushed to open and legendary bowlers like Dodda Ganesh and David Johnson. On top of that it had Azhar politicking and fixing like crazy. Azhar did play a couple of sensational knocks during that period though but he was just attacking like crazy.

 

Next series, He again almost won in WI against a competent WI side with a bowling attack of Kuruvilla and Prasad. The same game where team wasn’t able to chase 100 odd in the 4th innings.

 

one game was a draw due to rain when we were on the cusp on victory and the other where we couldn’t chase a low target.

 

However the conclusion always seems to be Sachin is a choker and a poor captain. Sachin problem was not backing talent. Yuvi,Zak,Dhoni,Sehwag and Bhajji seem to be genuinely grateful to Sachin and not like forced PR we see these days. Neither was he a bad strategist because he was the guy at mid-on talking to bowlers on most occasions.

 

His problem was while he had good acumen he wasn’t a master strategist and did not interfere or be demanding in selections like Ganguly or Dhoni.

 

Not the greatest captain but a leader among men for sure and not as bad he is made out to be and Sachin taking the option of playing under someone else and focusing on his batting for the greater good shows 2 things-

 

his confidence in his ability and lack of insecurity because how many captains do we see who hide their mediocre performances under that guise of captaincy.

 

 

I am no psychologist, but can play one on ICF.  I really think there were two reasons SRT was not successful as captain: 

(a) Too nice a guy.  I don't think he was persuasive.  I think he avoided confrontation, and enjoyed harmony and buy-in that came easily without him having to extract it out of people.

(b) He was so talented and so dedicated that he could not understand why others were "not getting it."  And this frustrated him.  

Edited June 21, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[mishra]

Actually Sachin has cited in his biography what he thinks were reasons for his failure as skipper with example. Decisions just goes to proove that Cricket is funny game.

[mani sha]

10 hours ago, Adamant said:

Here we go, same old same old. 

 

India is going to win/draw this match and then we will win/draw the test series vs england under Kohli. Wait and watch.

This team is mighty strong inspite of kohli not due to Kohli . Winning a series due to a bumrah or pant or ashwin with some support from others has been our mojo . Youngsters when kohli is absent have stepped up and performed . 
 

he is extremely poor as a tactician . And his ego makes him a worthless human being . 
 

this test match is a very very good example . Don’t make Bumrah a god . Neither is kohli a god . Kohli has made tactical errors in almost every series we have played .his aggression is a veiled disguise to his insecurity. 
 

rahane is a good contrasting study . Calm demeanor and excellent tactician . His 100 against Australia is perhaps the best innings I have seen after ganguly 100 was back in the monkey gate series

 

If he thought rayudu and jadhav will win him a World Cup , ashwin can be Shane Warne in England , batting second to pakistan in a finals  on a flat deck are good ideas , I can safely say he is a useless captain . He tried to destroy pant , pujara , ashwin etc . These players won’t miss him a day if he is no longer captain . 
 

defeating England in England - perhaps they will but to do that u need to get catches produced by swinging deliveries snd then hold on to them . Mr Buttercup can’t hold onto a catch for his life , and tactically he will use a seam bowler in England , swing bowler in cape town and wrist spinners in chennai ( all examples of brain farts ) 

[putrevus]

There is nothing wrong in team selection. If three fast bowlers are not doing the job what will the fourth bowler do, If Bumrah did his job as an Ace fast bowler India would be in a far better position. Ashwin would have missed out on selection for Siraj but he is one who scored runs and also taken a wicket.

 

This nonsense that some morons are spewing  that Kohli is looking for a draw so he can boost is utterly ridiculous. Kohli the batsman has to improve not Kohli the captain. He has to score more clutch runs.

Edited June 21, 2021 by putrevus

[mani sha]

2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I am no psychologist, but can play one on ICF.  I really think there were two reasons SRT was not successful as captain: 

(a) Too nice a guy.  I don't think he was persuasive.  I think he avoided confrontation, and enjoyed harmony and buy-in that came easily without him having to extract it out of people.

(b) He was so talented and so dedicated that he could not understand why others were "not getting it."  And this frustrated him.  

Boss srt had dodda Ganesh and fixer azar . One dies while tryinh and other tries to die . No captain can win anything with such teams . 
 

it was a hopeless era in indian cricket . Fast bowling and spin cupboards were bare . Match fixing was rampant . The selectors chose Noel david etc . 
 

inspite of poor teams , Sachin used to take decent tactical decisions . Give him this team and u will see how he would crush every opposition . 

[New guy]

21 minutes ago, putrevus said:

There is nothing wrong in team selection. If three fast bowlers are not doing the job what will the fourth bowler do, If Bumrah did his job as an Ace fast bowler India would be in a far better position. Ashwin would have missed out on selection for Siraj but he is one who scored runs and also taken a wicket.

 

This nonsense that some morons are spewing  that Kohli is looking for a draw so he can boost is utterly ridiculous. Kohli the batsman has to improve not Kohli the captain. He has score more clutch runs.

Your reason would hold if all pace bowlers were same. Swing Bowles are completely different from seam bowlers. I remember you  were defending defending same line up in NZ too and I said the same thing. If you don't have swing bowlers in swing countries you will always be outbowled.

 

Both shami and bumrah swung 0.4 on a pitch where kiwi bowlers swung above 2.0 and even ishant swung 1.5

 

Insanity is trying the same thing  and expecting different result 

 

Ita hidalrious that people who chest thump about pace bowling don't understand the difference between seam and swing bowling and what bowlers work on what wickets. It's like confusing finger spinners with wrist spinners and saying if 3 finger spinners didn't make a difference wrist spinners won't make a difference either 

Edited June 21, 2021 by New guy

[Suhaan]

There is a certain comedian poster who always finds kaptaan clown flawless, for him his team selections are always right and it is the players who are culprit not the clown who plays two spinners and a pacer who hasn't done well here in a swing bowling paradise

Edited June 21, 2021 by Suhaan

[New guy]

2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I am no psychologist, but can play one on ICF.  I really think there were two reasons SRT was not successful as captain: 

(a) Too nice a guy.  I don't think he was persuasive.  I think he avoided confrontation, and enjoyed harmony and buy-in that came easily without him having to extract it out of people.

(b) He was so talented and so dedicated that he could not understand why others were "not getting it."  And this frustrated him.  

There are snapshots in magazines from that time when in selectors meeting Sachin is sitting turned other way and all selectors ignored him

 

He didn't get a single selection he wanted. Selectors forced him to play players he didn't wsnt and also decided the batting line up. In west indies series he had asked for a spinner to have variety and so his pace bowlers don't break down. He was denied. Then pace bowlers got injured and they flew in spinner after couple of matches 

 

His first stint he was sacked as captain in less than a year which was mostly over seas tours 

 

Funny thing was that azharuddin was involved in very shady things like weird run outs, to the extent that selectors even had a talk with him. He was also in horrible form.  Yet Sachin was sacked and azhar made captain again. The reason selectors gave was that now azharuddin is married again so he is a mature man. I am serious, that's the exact reason they gave to make azhar captain again , (despite Sachin and ganguly both married men then)

 

It was only after the 96 world cup debacle and match fixing scandal we finally got rid of azhar. There were lots of shady stuff and I am 99% sure selectors were also involved in fixing 

 

A lot of things combined in Sachin captaincy, the obvious lack of bowling talent, the selectors, the fixers. The matches he won he had to win by either bat or ball himself. The experience soured him so much that he later never seeked captaincy (after his second real stint as captain) 

Edited June 21, 2021 by New guy

[BacktoCricaddict]

2 minutes ago, New guy said:

He didn't get a single selection he wanted. Selectors forced him to play players he didn't wsnt and also decided the batting line up. In west indies series he had asked for a spinner to have variety and so his pace bowlers don't break down. He was denied. Then pace bowlers got injured and they flew in spinner after couple of matches 

In some ways, this reinforces the nice-guy image I have of him.  The undisputed superstar, the man without whom Indian cricket was nothing in the '90s - Sachin Tendulkar - let a bunch of irrelevant old hags walk all over him.  Maybe if he had imposed his will or blackmailed them, they would've got in line.  Thank goodness, all that ended ...

[Turning_track]

It would be so fun to read about Kohli's captaincy days after a few years. What his colleagues used to think about his captaincy, tactical acumen & selections. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Turning_track

[maniac]

6 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

In some ways, this reinforces the nice-guy image I have of him.  The undisputed superstar, the man without whom Indian cricket was nothing in the '90s - Sachin Tendulkar - let a bunch of irrelevant old hags walk all over him.  Maybe if he had imposed his will or blackmailed them, they would've got in line.  Thank goodness, all that ended ...

M.Amarnath called our selectors a bunch of jokers as a player and later had pretty much a similar experience as a selector himself. Apart from an odd Anomaly here and there he is obviously spot on.

 

Ganguly and Dhoni were given full license and were more powerful than the selectors due to the patronage of 2 of the most powerful men in Indian cricket of all time in Jagmohan and Srinivasan (sound like villian names from a Mithunda flick).

 

Today Kohli has taken it a step further to become more powerful than the BCCI

 

Not sure if Pawar was in the scheme of things during Sachin’s captaincy days but clearly he was being undermined by the board and selectors.

[putrevus]

39 minutes ago, New guy said:

Your reason would hold if all pace bowlers were same. Swing Bowles are completely different from seam bowlers. I remember you  were defending defending same line up in NZ too and I said the same thing. If you don't have swing bowlers in swing countries you will always be outbowled.

 

Both shami and bumrah swung 0.4 on a pitch where kiwi bowlers swung above 2.0 and even ishant swung 1.5

 

Insanity is trying the same thing  and expecting different result 

 

Ita hidalrious that people who chest thump about pace bowling don't understand the difference between seam and swing bowling and what bowlers work on what wickets. It's like confusing finger spinners with wrist spinners and saying if 3 finger spinners didn't make a difference wrist spinners won't make a difference either 

They were not outbowled even in NZ. I told you then also. Indian batting folded like cheap tents in NZ. No bowling unit will be able to win those matches. Except Shami who is primarily seam bowler, we have Bumrah and Ishant who do swing the ball.

 

Mcgrath was a  primarly seam bowler  demolished England in England, NZ in NZ many a times. The only debate prematch was if Siraj should have played or not. This pitch was nothing like NZ pitches where it was survival was difficult.

 

India should have scored 270 plus easily given number of overs they faced. That has nothing to do with bowling. 

 

Insanity is always expecting players who are not selected to be Malcolm Marshalls and Don Bradmans. Siraj vs Shami on this wicket is not a big difference. First it was KL Rahul then it was Gill , then it was Siraj and Saini.

 

Strongest team on this wicket is having both Ashwin and Jadeja in the team. Jadeja is playing as allrounder.

 

Insantiy is expecting a swing bowler is expecting a bowler like Siraj to run thru batting line ups just because matches are being played in England or NZ. I would have played Siraj over Shami but I don't think it is earth shattering mistake.

[Praveen 06]

8 hours ago, maniac said:

Sachin almost won in SA the first time India had a decent fast bowling pair in Srinath and Prasad. That too against Cronje’s SA team.

 

That team had batting coach Vikram Rathour opening, VVS Laxman pushed to open and legendary bowlers like Dodda Ganesh and David Johnson. On top of that it had Azhar politicking and fixing like crazy. Azhar did play a couple of sensational knocks during that period though but he was just attacking like crazy.

 

Next series, He again almost won in WI against a competent WI side with a bowling attack of Kuruvilla and Prasad. The same game where team wasn’t able to chase 100 odd in the 4th innings.

 

one game was a draw due to rain when we were on the cusp on victory and the other where we couldn’t chase a low target.

 

However the conclusion always seems to be Sachin is a choker and a poor captain. Sachin problem was not backing talent. Yuvi,Zak,Dhoni,Sehwag and Bhajji seem to be genuinely grateful to Sachin and not like forced PR we see these days. Neither was he a bad strategist because he was the guy at mid-on talking to bowlers on most occasions.

 

His problem was while he had good acumen he wasn’t a master strategist and did not interfere or be demanding in selections like Ganguly or Dhoni.

 

Not the greatest captain but a leader among men for sure and not as bad he is made out to be and Sachin taking the option of playing under someone else and focusing on his batting for the greater good shows 2 things-

 

his confidence in his ability and lack of insecurity because how many captains do we see who hide their mediocre performances under that guise of captaincy.

 

 

Hahaha one more explanation theory. I am big fan of Sachin captaincy. I know his captaincy skills. But I don't like his batting in crucial situations.