How much did lack of 4 seamer hurt India?

[Trichromatic]

Ashwin Jadeja combined scored valuable 36 runs. 

 

Took 3 wickets for 48 runs.

[zen]

In this conditions with Bumrah off color, Ind basically bowled with 2 pacers, missing the 4th pacer, which could have helped Ind restrict NZ to 160-170. Siraj could have got some runs too 

 

Guys like Jadeja could have been more impactful but they exposed the tail, probably thinking about remaining not out 

 

The wkts picked up by spinners were Latham (a loose shot), tailender Wagner and Southee, who was trying to hit most balls with 9 wkts down 

 

In the 2nd innings, spinners can do better so let’s see how they go 

[Lord]

 

not too bad as of now,but still 2 innings to go

[putrevus]

Problem is balance, Indian fast bowlers cannot bat, so they had to play Jadeja for his batting. Downside is three fast bowlers will be over bowled.I don't know  if they can change this combination moving forward also and get another fast bowler. Who are they dropping Ashwin is doing his job.

 

Anyone can have a bad day Jadeja failed with bat it happens, but it does not make Jadeja's selection a wrong selection.

Edited June 22, 2021 by putrevus

[Lord]

The team selection was right.

 

Siraj will come in for Bumrah now

[R!TTER]

Not too much, some tactics & of course our tail end batting made a huge mess!

[jalebi_bhai]

Bumrah was the issue really. Every other bowler did their bit. Jadeja and Ashwin scored runs and picked wickets. 

 

I understand the clamour for Thakur but Jadeja is a more accomplished bat. Had Bumrah done even 75% of what was expected of him, we would not be having this discussion.

[putrevus]

19 minutes ago, Lord said:

The team selection was right.

 

Siraj will come in for Bumrah now

I don't think so , Siraj will play some of the tests but dropping Bumrah for one bad innings is silly.

[Lord]

Just now, putrevus said:

I don't think so , Siraj will play some of the tests but dropping Bumrah for one bad innings is silly.

 

its not about one match or performance.He's not getting movement or the zip off the surface since injury in SCG

 

Siraj is in very tempting form too

[Trichromatic]

34 minutes ago, zen said:

In this conditions with Bumrah off color, Ind basically bowled with 2 pacers, missing the 4th pacer, which could have helped Ind restrict NZ to 160-170. Siraj could have got some runs too 

 

Guys like Jadeja could have been more impactful but they exposed the tail, probably thinking about remaining not out 

 

The wkts picked up by spinners were Latham (a loose shot), tailender Wagner and Southee, who was trying to hit most balls with 9 wkts down 

 

In the 2nd innings, spinners can do better so let’s see how they go 

 

Would you be ok if 4th seamer was played in place of Pujara?

[zen]

9 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Would you be ok if 4th seamer was played in place of Pujara?

 

When playing the 4th seamer is discussed, it is usually as a part of the bowling combination, which is in place of either Jadeja or Ashwin, not specialist batsman and that too from the ones who are Ind's most experienced.  Replacing a specialist batsman from the top 6 is playing 6 specialist bowlers ... I do not see Jadeja or Ashwin as someone who can bat in the top 6 

Edited June 22, 2021 by zen

[Trichromatic]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

 

When playing the 4th seamer is discussed, it is usually as a part of the bowling combination, which is in place of either Jadeja or Ashwin, not specialist batsman and that too from the ones who are Ind's most experienced.  Replacing a specialist batsman from the top 6 is playing 6 specialist bowlers ... I do not see Jadeja as someone who can bat in the top 6 

Pujara didn't offer more value with bat. 

 

 

Jadeja averages 50 with bat last 3-4 years. 

[zen]

18 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Pujara didn't offer more value with bat. 

 

 

Well not every batsman in the top 6 does well in every inning. Similarly, not every bowler does well. Which is why it is about getting the combination right. If the conditions are pace bowler friendly, a team has a better chance of  2-3 out of its 4 pacers doing well v 1-2 out of 3. That is why you want to play 4 pacers (as it is understood one or two of them may not have a good game, the issue is that we do not know before the game which one esp. since Ind's pace bowlers are all quality). If you play more spinners in pace bowler friendly conditions, you are basically reducing the chances of pacer bowlers doing well as a group. Let's not forget Ind's only win in Eng and NZ in the last 6-7 tests was because of the 4th pacer 

 

 

Quote

Jadeja averages 50 with bat last 3-4 years. 

 

Due to batting in selected conditions as of now 

 

PS if a Rahane is asked to bat in top order, he may struggle too 

Edited June 22, 2021 by zen

[rkt.india]

48 minutes ago, Lord said:

The team selection was right.

 

Siraj will come in for Bumrah now

No. That's not how it works. Extra seamer is always better than extra spinner in these conditions because You can always have one of the three seamers going off color. 

[Lord]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

No. That's not how it works. Extra seamer is always better than extra spinner in these conditions because You can always have one of the three seamers going off color. 

 

Jadeja is there for his batting.Ashwin is our spinner

 

It;s between Ashwin and Thakur.Thakur comes in only if its a greentop

 

We can not budget for a seamer going off color in such conditions.Similarly we don't play 3 spinners in India. It's an overkill

 

Also 4th innings spinner will come into play 

[sage]

No excuse for poor team selection TM had 24 hours extra to adjust

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

No. That's not how it works. Extra seamer is always better than extra spinner in these conditions because You can always have one of the three seamers going off color. 

They did not play extra spinner. Jadeja was played more for his batting.He is better batsman than Vihari also at number 7. What are they supposed to do with 4 bowlers who cannot bat.

[R!TTER]

14 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

You can always have one of the three seamers going off color. 

The other seamer can also go off colour, it's not as cut & dry as you're making it out to be! Also no amount of handwringing will take away from the fact that JB did India in, you think any other pacer could make up for his BS performance this test?

[bowl_out]

The third seamer didn't get even one wicket.. If anything, we needed a quick bowler that would have generated more swing.. Missed Bhuvi

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

The third seamer didn't get even one wicket.. If anything, we needed a quick bowler that would have generated more swing.. Missed Bhuvi

 

we have been missing Bhuvi since 2018 but hes never fit