goose Posted June 23, 2021 Author Posted June 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, sandeep said: No it isn't. Mark my words. We'll come back to this after the series. India is winning this 5 match series unless serious injuries take out 2 or more bowlers. haha ...IF an injury takes out Ishant we might win. he will be the weak link Bumrah and Shami cannot do it all. IF Siraj replaces Ishant i think India can win.
Gollum Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 First let them make Ind/Aus bat 5 times in a 3 test series in Ind/Aus...not home or 'neutral' Eng. Then we'll talk.
sandeep Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, goose said: haha ...IF an injury takes out Ishant we might win. he will be the weak link Bumrah and Shami cannot do it all. IF Siraj replaces Ishant i think India can win. Stop putting asterisks, I'm saying barring tour-ending injuries to multiple bowlers, India is winning this series. What say you? :)
goose Posted June 23, 2021 Author Posted June 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, sandeep said: And it would be a far more valid question @goose batsmen don't get a second chance. batsman can and are expected to fail. you only need 3 from 7 bats to have a great test for a side to win. bowlers get a chance at redemption and if no good cost their sides dearly.
goose Posted June 23, 2021 Author Posted June 23, 2021 Just now, sandeep said: Stop putting asterisks, I'm saying barring tour-ending injuries to multiple bowlers, India is winning this series. What say you? :) Not if Ishant is in the side. I hope i'm wrong.
neel roy Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 The biggest advantage kiwis got were 2 practice tests winning the toss no sunshine ( till 17th the temp was 30 degrees then all changed making Southampton mini Wellington) now what do you expect from a team who last played cricket in ipl and before that in bunsen burners then coming here quarantining and then bang playing against wagner boult southee jamieson who blew away england at their home 1 week ago.. Vilander and Baji-Rao 1 1
express bowling Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 Bumrah and Shami are better than the NZ pacers in Asia, Australia, WI and SA. NZ pacers are better only in NZ and England. P.S - Bumrah of 2018 and 2019 would find a place in England too. Mosher, Lord, saik and 2 others 1 4
sandeep Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, goose said: yeh agree with a lot of that. i'm speaking specifically about the match ups between the two pace attacks in these conditions. do you think a combined XI would feature a single pacer from India? If Boult wasn't a left-armer, he'd be replaced right away with any of the 3 Indian pacers. A lot of what makes this NZ attack so potent in these conditions is how they bowl as a unit and have complementary roles and skillsets. If India had bowled first in this test match, this could have played out very differently. If the NZ batsmen had to front up against our bowlers without the luxury of knowing that that India only had 217 on the board, or a sub-par 4th innings total, you might have been singing a very different tune. Vilander and Lord 1 1
goose Posted June 23, 2021 Author Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, neel roy said: The biggest advantage kiwis got were 2 practice tests winning the toss no sunshine ( till 17th the temp was 30 degrees then all changed making Southampton mini Wellington) now what do you expect from a team who last played cricket in ipl and before that in bunsen burners then coming here quarantining and then bang playing against wagner boult southee jamieson who blew away england at their home 1 week ago.. exactly. we competed quite well i thought given above. NZ have a formidable pace attack in these conditions.
goose Posted June 23, 2021 Author Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, sandeep said: If Boult wasn't a left-armer, he'd be replaced right away with any of the 3 Indian pacers. A lot of what makes this NZ attack so potent in these conditions is how they bowl as a unit and have complementary roles and skillsets. If India had bowled first in this test match, this could have played out very differently. If the NZ batsmen had to front up against our bowlers without the luxury of knowing that that India only had 217 on the board, or a sub-par 4th innings total, you might have been singing a very different tune. so no? why does everyone think i'm running India down (apart from Ishant who annoys me). objectively speaking, on the evidence of this test, a combined XI for these conditions would not feature an Indian pacer, nothing more nothing less! Edited June 23, 2021 by goose
sandeep Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, goose said: batsmen don't get a second chance. batsman can and are expected to fail. you only need 3 from 7 bats to have a great test for a side to win. bowlers get a chance at redemption and if no good cost their sides dearly. But kiwi bowlers got to attack vulnerable batsmen on a fresh pitch without the scoreboard pressure of a sub-par total behind them. Indian bowlers didn't. When India were 60/0 in the 1st innings, there was a lot of chest-beating from NZ commies about NZ bowling making the "same mistakes" as they often do away from home. Its very easy to fall into the trap of extrapolating based on a small data-set. I believe folks are allowing their disappointment at the loss that shouldn't have been (primarily the batting's fault), by unnecessarily denigrating the bowling. The bowlers, with a 217 on the board, losing the toss, did their job. It took a bit of lusty lucky slogging down the order for NZ to come away with a 30 run lead. A lead that proved decisive in the end, but again, I would say its the batting that is primarily responsible for the loss. express bowling and Vijy 2
sandeep Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, goose said: exactly. we competed quite well i thought given above. NZ have a formidable pace attack in these conditions. No we didn't. If we had, this would have been a draw. Batting misfired, badly. Bowlers were undercooked and didn't get it together until NZ had 100 on the board in the 1st dig. Batting misfired again on the last day. The simple fact, although it sounds overly generous to say it right now - is that relative to skill and ability, Indian team massively underperformed. And they still possess the skill and ability to deliver better outcomes, even in these conditions. Vijy 1
sandeep Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, goose said: so no? why does everyone think i'm running India down (apart from Ishant who annoys me). objectively speaking, on the evidence of this test, a combined XI for these conditions would not feature an Indian pacer, nothing more nothing less! Because the claim you are making implies somehow that the Indian bowlers aren't good enough to win in these conditions. And that is not the case.
maniac Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 Boult because of left arm variety and Jamieson with his allround abilities. That’s about it. Wagner is underrated but there are better bowlers than him in the Indian side.
goose Posted June 23, 2021 Author Posted June 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, sandeep said: Because the claim you are making implies somehow that the Indian bowlers aren't good enough to win in these conditions. And that is not the case. they are good enough to win. none would find a place in the NZ XI
sandeep Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 2 hours ago, goose said: they are good enough to win. none would find a place in the NZ XI you can self-flagellate all you want I guess.
addicted4444 Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 The bowling was hardly the problem, so I don’t understand why we are even bothering to criticize the bowlers. They managed to limit NZ to a low lead despite a terrible batting collapse on the Indian side, in the 1st innings. And most of those runs came from the lower order (which actually points to India’s biggest bowling problem. The lack of a fast bowler who can bundle up the tail. Bumrah is supposed to be that guy, but I couldn’t watch to see if he just failed or if Kohli didn’t bowl him against the tail). The 2nd innings doesn’t count due to the complete lack of scoreboard pressure.
coffee_rules Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) It is not our bowlers, batting is in shambles in Eng and NZ, no team strategy for batting, Pant needs to be talked to , and TM with ARs from no. 6 onwards. Useless Edited June 23, 2021 by coffee_rules Lord 1
Vijy Posted June 26, 2021 Posted June 26, 2021 On 6/23/2021 at 2:27 PM, express bowling said: Bumrah and Shami are better than the NZ pacers in Asia, Australia, WI and SA. NZ pacers are better only in NZ and England. P.S - Bumrah of 2018 and 2019 would find a place in England too. Umesh is better than all of the NZ pacers in Indian conditions. express bowling and Gollum 1 1
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