What should be the BCCI response in case Manchester test is awarded to England by forfeit resulting in 2-2 series result?

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

 

If ECB - who control the playing conditions - hold the matches in conditions where players are very likely to catch Covid, why would BCCI/India suffer for it? What is so hard for you to comprehend here? BCCI refused to field a team because ECB couldn't secure the safety of players by allowing maskless crowds and streakers and staff and had them mingle without any care. Is that BCCI's fault?

 

BCCI should be bringing a lawsuit against ECB for being incompetent and putting lives under risk.

 

 

I don't know why so many of us are missing this aspect. I wrote about this yesterday. The ECB have allowed Jarvo to come near our cricketers 2 times ... spectators were allowed to come near Shami and cut cakes on his birthday ... Buttler is coming back without spending any time in quarantine ... there are crowds of people without masks who are roaming around.

 

When all this happening on the field and in the stadium, I wonder how lackadaisical the English authorities have been outside the field.

 

Without any doubt, the ECB have not done enough to protect our players and support staff from Covid.

[Sean Bradley]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

It is not a matter of ego.

 

You don't understand how arm twisting boards like the ECB work. 

 

Give them an inch and they would try to get a kilometre.

 

Any perceived show of weakness, on the negotiating table with the ECB, will have bad repercussions on Indian cricket in the near future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I don't know how much can we understand about what's happening behind closed curtains, but I don't see any arm twisting here, they have a fair shout out for a forfeit, They are the organisers of the tour, they are the ones who have millions of dollars at stake, they are a match down in the series, our camp defied covid protocol and were found positive, we refused to field a 11, even the BCCI in this position would have asked for a forfeit.  I don't see any evil hand at play here. 

[goose]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

goosy, why are you messing with me unnecessarily?  you know that the coaches sit cheek-by-jowl throughout the test match and after hours right?  

 

Sometimes I get the feeling like you create these threads to just gather supporting info and arguments that you can distill and use, elsewhere.

i'm just having fun. i also want to change the world. you put your side very well, i like to hear it. i haven't resorted to copying and pasting your posts just yet!

 

 

[GeeGaw]

As mentioned many times already, but apparently needs repeating for the brain trust, neither England nor Australia forfeited jack sh!t when they ducked out of their SA series. Sorry ECB and icf colonial apologists but precedent has been set. Suck a dick and get over it. 

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, goose said:

i'm just having fun. i also want to change the world. you put your side very well, i like to hear it. i haven't resorted to copying and pasting your posts just yet!

 

 

didnt mean it that way, just felt that you play devil's advocate to bolster a side of that argument you already may agree with, so that you have a stronger case in a 'different' setting - with non-desis, colleagues etc.  And wasnt just referring to my blowhard stuff, I'm not that arrogant nor do I have that high an opinion of my opinion!.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

 

Manohar was Mir Jaffer to the exponential 'n'.  And empowered the ECB to lock in its clutches on the ICC while the BCCI was headless and rudderless.  Indian cricket will pay the price for this and the ramifications will last a decade.  It is what it is now.  

 

But even in spite of this, the BCCI still has powerful leverage on international cricket.  There's only so many battles that the ICC or even ECB can pick with BCCI.  

 

I expect BCCI to offer some compensatory earnings to offset ECB losses here, and all will be well.  The ECB may try to use the 'forfeit' threat to strengthen its negotiating hand, but that's about it.  

 

The way I expect ECB to play it, is to pressure Gangu into giving a very generous offer in terms of the 'rescheduled' series, maybe even try to make Indian players play the 'hundred' - latter is 99.9% not going to happen, so that they can withdraw their 'forfeit' demand for the WTC and present a mutually accepted 'cancel' status for T5.  

 

 

Physio was positive, so, according to protocols all of his close contacts should be quarantined like other staff who were close contact of Shastri were quarantined. So physio's close contacts were all fast bowlers, Rohit, Pujara as both had niggles. There maybe some more too. In such, test could not happen.

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, GeeGaw said:

As mentioned many times already, but apparently needs repeating for the brain trust, neither England nor Australia forfeited jack sh!t when they ducked out of their SA series. Sorry ECB and icf colonial apologists but precedent has been set. Suck a dick and get over it. 

 

but naah, its "Indian management messed up".

 

Banjo our team is out there for 4 months, working their ass off - for whatever unfortunate reason, some of them contracted this shitty virus, and folks are so damn selfish and annoyed at not getting to watch "tv sports", that they want to lash out and blame our guys.  For daring to choose to protect their families.  Oh what a crime, how dare they.

[LordPrabhzy]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I don't know why so many of us are missing this aspect. I wrote about this yesterday. The ECB have allowed Jarvo to come near our cricketers 2 times ... spectators were allowed to come near Shami and cut cakes on his birthday ... Buttler is coming back without spending any time in quarantine ... there are crowds of people without masks who are roaming around.

 

When all this happening on the field and in the stadium, I wonder how lackadaisical the English authorities have been outside the field.

 

Without any doubt, the ECB have not done enough to protect our players and support staff from Covid.

 

Agree with Jarvo incident

 

BUT ECB did not force Indian players to enjoy their time in the UK by going to packed events etc, they did not force the players to go to book launches. If there was no bio bubbles in hotels this was because it was NOT MANDATED as per UK guidelines. If India wanted a Bio bubble then BCCI could have funded this request to protect their players.

 

There is blame on both sides ( ECB for the Jarvo nautanki) and our TM/players to not wanting to compromise their enjoyment and still not wanting to accept the risk. You cant have it both ways unfortunately

[Serpico]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

sports", that they want to lash out and blame our guys.  For daring to choose to protect their families.  Oh what a crime, how dare they.

They're all flying to uae to play in bubbles with the same players for another 2 months

Edited September 10, 2021 by Serpico

[sandeep]

Just now, rkt.india said:

Physio was positive, so, according to protocols all of his close contacts should be quarantined like other staff who were close contact of Shastri were quarantined. So physio's close contacts were all fast bowlers, Rohit, Pujara as both had niggles. There maybe some more too. In such, test could not happen.

 

yep, and at that point the ripple effect is out of control.  There is no way to know definitively, for at least 5-7 days, if any others have contracted it or not.  That's the fact.

 

So then what? wait 5 days and then play the test? Potentially with half the team ruled out?  Then fly straight out for IPL?  All of that for what? to make ECB richer?  

 

hatao banjo.  Covid protocols are clear, they allow for match cancellation in case of infection in player and staff.  That's that.

[maniac]

22 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

If your child has to go see a Doctor tomorrow, and you know that that doctor's co-worker has covid as of a couple days ago, but so far, the doctor has tested negative, will you take your child to see the doctor for a routine visit? Or will you choose to re-schedule your visit to a week or 10 days later, and after confirming that the doctor is clear? 

 

Why on earth is a presumably educated person, putting so much weight on a "negative" covid test, in such a scenario?  I mean, come on.  This is basic.

well if that is your argument, then Shastri was diagnosed as positive during the 4th test, the match still went ahead as scheduled, didn’t it?

 

is there are a 10 day wait for these tests between each test since the beginning of the series because the argument is that players are at risk because of Jarvo and the maskless crowd. You don’t care about the 4th test because we won obviously but there are a lot of flaws in this logic.

 

I am not debating the science but if everything is being done on the basis of science then there are too many flaws here.

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, LordPrabhzy said:

 

Agree with Jarvo incident

 

BUT ECB did not force Indian players to enjoy their time in the UK by going to packed events etc, they did not force the players to go to book launches. If there was no bio bubbles in hotels this was because it was NOT MANDATED as per UK guidelines. If India wanted a Bio bubble then BCCI could have funded this request to protect their players.

 

There is blame on both sides ( ECB for the Jarvo nautanki) and our TM/players to not wanting to compromise their enjoyment and still not wanting to accept the risk. You cant have it both ways unfortunately

 

so what exactly do you want? Players to stay in hard bubbles for the 4 month tour? When the entire country is out and about?  

 

bottomline is that the teams and boards knew that there was a degree of risk of cancellation like this, with the "loose" bubble protocols that were agreed upon.  Now that this unwanted possibility has materialized, you can't go off blaming one side for it.  Both sides agreed to the terms and conditions, because that's what was reasonable and sustainable.  Not perfect, but adequate.  With the lower, but existing risk of such a scenario mainfesting.  It happened.  Match got cancelled.  It is what it is.

 

There is no blame to be assigned here. Just disappointment.  

[mishra]

30 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

 

Okay but do you think with this mahapurush idea, the players roaming the country during their break to watch football matches, going to restaurants etc would have had zero Covid transmission and no risk of getting infected? That would only happen if they are staying in a hotel right? Your suggestion would only work if these 50 houses were one ONE locality and that one locality is a bio bubble? If youre from the Uk then clearly you must know that availability of such a scale of real estate is virtually impossible and very expensive. If not then your just spouting garbage for the sake of it

They watched and roamed because they could. You cant expect Indian player to behave differently then how locals do unless off course they were specifically reminded every morning not to do so.These players have been in bubbles for ages. Players are humans. Pragmatically someone decided that instead of impacting mental health, and player pulling out like Brn Stokes did, its better to give them some degree of freedom.

 

Current issue is , Players  are scared of contacting covid. And that fear is very real as so many of staff has contacted covid. If you recall, yesterday there was news that Sharma and Kohli said they want to go ahead, but overnight, things have changed. Some may have called cold feet. Players are humans too and This fear of death due to covid is as real to them as it is to us.

 

Idea that covid positive is because Shashtri attended some book ceremony is just a blame game by media.

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

well if that is your argument, then Shastri was diagnosed as positive during the 4th test, the match still went ahead as scheduled, didn’t it?

 

for the n'th time - there is a big difference between Shastri and Physio. 

 

Shastri isn't getting up close and personal massaging the players shoulders, hamstrings and glutes.  

[goose]

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

didnt mean it that way, just felt that you play devil's advocate to bolster a side of that argument you already may agree with, so that you have a stronger case in a 'different' setting - with non-desis, colleagues etc.  And wasnt just referring to my blowhard stuff, I'm not that arrogant nor do I have that high an opinion of my opinion!.

 

 i find the best way to defeat a narrative is to give it maximum airtime!

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

for the n'th time - there is a big difference between Shastri and Physio. 

 

Shastri isn't getting up close and personal massaging the players shoulders, hamstrings and glutes.  

last time I checked covid was air borne and not a STD that transmits by contact.

 

Look at this point it is clear that there isn’t any consistent protocol about how these situations are handled. If we can pull up so many points and counterpoints, it is not that out of the box for England to take advantage of the situation that suits them. Fair game in my book. You can call me a colonial apologist or whatever but just like with colonialism part of the blame goes to us for being colonized too and this situation isn’t any different. 
 

It’s our camp that has covid positives and England has 0. That’s a fact we have to accept.

Edited September 10, 2021 by maniac

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

I am not debating the science but if everything is being done on the basis of science then there are too many flaws here.

of course there are flaws.  It all boils down to risk assessment.   And the players have the unimpeachable right to refuse taking on undue risk.   As they see it, as defined by the protocols and the terms and conditions of the tour.  Even the ECB is not disputing their right to cancel, given the positive tests of the staff.

 

Criticizing them for protecting themselves is wrong.  That's my point.  

[LordPrabhzy]

3 minutes ago, mishra said:

They watched and roamed because they could. You cant expect Indian player to behave differently then how locals do unless off course they were specifically reminded every morning not to do so.These players have been in bubbles for ages. Players are humans. Pragmatically someone decided that instead of impacting mental health, and player pulling out like Brn Stokes did, its better to give them some degree of freedom.

 

Current issue is , Players  are scared of contacting covid. And that fear is very real as so many of staff has contacted covid. If you recall, yesterday there was news that Sharma and Kohli said they want to go ahead, but overnight, things have changed. Some may have called cold feet. Players are humans too and This fear of death due to covid is as real to them as it is to us.

 

Idea that covid positive is because Shashtri attended some book ceremony is just a blame game by media.

 

I am not disagreeing with you. I am saying that based on the situation in the UK now and lose restrictions, you either have to accept the risk based on the activities you chose to do to help your mental health or follow a bio bubble protocol

 

I have said from the start, the best outcome would be end the series as 2-1 to india and BCCI as a gesture of goodwill reimburse something to ECB to close the matter. 

[sandeep]

Just now, maniac said:

ast time I checked covid was air borne and. not and STD that transmits by contact.

banjo, have you ever given or recieved a massage?  Its not possible for you to get a massage, and not be breathed upon,  up close, by the masseur.  I mean, come on now.  

[LordPrabhzy]

4 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

Have a cold shower. And then come back and go through what you have typed here.

 

ECB are the hosts. BCCI are guests, visitors. BCCI have no need to have a bio bubble enforced if ECB don';t think it's necessary. If it means ECB get shafted because Indians had a Covid outbreak, it's on ECB, not the BCCI. What do you even mean BCCI cannot have it both ways? BCCI is literally following the laws and protocols and guidelines. Should they pay for ECB's lack of diligence? Why wouldn't they go to a book visit when ECB is cool with thousands of potentially covid positive fans attending matches.

 

OK so ECB not enforcing a bubble, then they get shafted as touring party has no blame despite the activities they chose to do which carries a risk because its on ECB's head

 

IF ECB do force a hard bio bubble then Indians will complain about their mental health. Damned if you do damned if you dont.