keep picking deepak and harshal

[Vk1]

yes, they will go for runs on somedays but having them in the line up will free up our top order and they can play their shots.. having deepak and harshal is a lot better than playing with siraj/shami/avesh kind of bowlers who dont contribute with bat ( shamis so called big hits usually come against spinners in tests).. swap bumrah for bhuvi

[express bowling]

There should be 4 bowlers in the team who are the best bowlers available for the format.

 

 

In tests we can play a bowling allrounder like Shardul at 8 as we have top class bowlers like Jadeja and Ashwin who can bat at No.7. 

 

Jadeja or Axar at No.7 in LOIs can allow us to play ONE among Harshal / Deepak / Shardul.at 8.

 

The 5th bowler shoud be picked based on batting skills.

 

Why should bowlers be selected to cover for the ineptitude of the top 8 batsmen !!!!

 

D.Chahar went at more than 10 runs per over in all 3 T20Is. Did not pick that many wickets either. He failed as a frontline bowler. Picking him for an odd cameo makes no sense to me. 

 

We should NOT look for batting ability beyond No.8 in white ball cricket. 9, 10 and 11 should be the best bowlers.

 

Harshal and Deepak playing together makes the pace attack too much similar and gentle paced.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

17 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

This is besides the point. It works because Indian pitches are batsmen paradise.

 

If India is 2 wickets down in first over similar to Pak/NZ game. Having such a long batting line up will be useless as they will scrape together a below par score.

 

The big problem is reliance on openers and to an extent top 3 to not only score big but also score quickly without losing their wickets.

 

This is a huge problem and something that needs to be sorted. We need to give more matches and practice to middle order to play big games.

 

Someone like Hardik no matter what people say about him - rarely gets to bat more than 50 balls in an entire series. Yet people expect him and Pant to do magic from ball 1. Yet, same metric is never applied to openers or top 3 when they fail.

 

We had same thing when Dhoni was playing where we had batting until #9 but once Kohli failed, match was more or less done.

 

 

This is the exact issue.

 

No.4 to No.7 have so little match practice ... as our top 3 take up most balls ... that they fail in crunch situations. 

 

We need to give more batting practice to 4 to 7 in actual matches ... and pick the bowlers based on bowling skills.

[Clarke]

It sounds like a chicken & egg situation. Top order would say middle order doesn't contribute much hence they start cautiously. Middle order would say they don't get enough time to develop the innings since the top order is slow and hence doesn't deliver in tough circumstances. 

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, Clarke said:

It sounds like a chicken & egg situation. Top order would say middle order doesn't contribute much hence they start cautiously. Middle order would say they don't get enough time to develop the innings since the top order is slow and hence doesn't deliver in tough circumstances. 

 

 

Which is why the entire batting order should be made floating and rotational in low key LOIs.

 

Get in the No.4 to No.7 batsmen in the top 4 from time to time in bilateral LOIs.

[GautiMaan]

 

9 minutes ago, Clarke said:

It sounds like a chicken & egg situation. Top order would say middle order doesn't contribute much hence they start cautiously. Middle order would say they don't get enough time to develop the innings since the top order is slow and hence doesn't deliver in tough circumstances. 

Solution would to move one of the top order to the MO all the years of having munched on Powerplays and getting "set" should now be put to the use of team

Edited November 22, 2021 by GautiMaan

[Clarke]

19 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Which is why the entire batting order should be made floating and rotational in low key LOIs.

 

Get in the No.4 to No.7 batsmen in the top 4 from time to time in bilateral LOIs.

 

Another Greg Chappell era awaits in that case given our prima donnas.  

 

This also reminds me of the days when Rohit was a middle order player & his innings duration was frequently compared to preparing maggi noodles.

[Clarke]

27 minutes ago, GautiMaan said:

 

Solution would to move one of the top order to the MO all the years of having munched on Powerplays and getting "set" should now be put to the use of team

 

[Clarke]

In principle I was keen on Rahul continuing in middle order, from what i recall he did a decent (or better than that) job. 

[Vk1]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

There should be 4 bowlers in the team who are the best bowlers available for the format.

 

 

In tests we can play a bowling allrounder like Shardul at 8 as we have top class bowlers like Jadeja and Ashwin who can bat at No.7. 

 

Jadeja or Axar at No.7 in LOIs can allow us to play ONE among Harshal / Deepak / Shardul.at 8.

 

The 5th bowler shoud be picked based on batting skills.

 

Why should bowlers be selected to cover for the ineptitude of the top 8 batsmen !!!!

 

D.Chahar went at more than 10 runs per over in all 3 T20Is. Did not pick that many wickets either. He failed as a frontline bowler. Picking him for an odd cameo makes no sense to me. 

 

We should NOT look for batting ability beyond No.8 in white ball cricket. 9, 10 and 11 should be the best bowlers.

 

Harshal and Deepak playing together makes the pace attack too much similar and gentle paced.

 

 

we can succeed only if we copy Eng style..  Eng regularly plays 4/5 allrounders per game..

David Wiley, Curran bros get chances repeatedly as they believe in this philosophy.. I dont know if our pure bowlers like Siraj/prasidh/avesh can demand a place on their bowling skill alone..no evidence of it so far after seeing the likes of Saini/Shami/Prasidh

[Lone Wolf]

Our middle order atm looks highly unreliable.  We don't know how Pant Surya will fare under pressure..   Venkatesh is new as well.  But he has good temperament looks like but will need more games. 

Our T20 team has a lot of missing pieces.  In my opinion best use of KL Rahul is at middle order where he can bat freely & according to the situation if a collapse is on. 

Kishan (wkt) 

Rohit (c) 

Surya

Kohli/Pant/Iyer

Rahul

Venky

Harshal/Deepak

Axar

Ashwin

Bumrah 

Siraj

 

 

 

[prudent_kreeda]

India has to accelerate transition in T20 along with shedding the too conservative approach.

The direction should be  

1. better use of PP - Hence find a good aggressive opener - invest in Shaw , Ishan at the top

2. Change in top 3 bats. -Move VK down to #4 if he is playing 

3. Fix the middle overs bats - Criteria  They should be able to attack spinners and good against pace - Invest in  Surya ,Pant & Ishan as MO.

4. Have 3 Fast bowlers and play atleast 2 always  -Bumrah, Siraj, Umran

5. Have  2 good trundlers -play one -  Harshal , Shardul / bhuvi

6. Nurture Axar  & develop batting   .

7.Develop leggie -Bishnoy/R Chahar 

8. Identify who is the best bet for death overs bats - My bets would be KL & Pandu (if he bowls) .

9. Include bats who can play at any positions Hence Ishan, KL , Surya Pant  should be always in X1.

 

Thus new guys who should be consistently to be backed and tested first - ( These have to improve but look the right horses to be backed by management)

Bats-  Shaw, Surya, Pant, Ishan,

Pacers -  Siraj , Umran 

Trundler - Harshal ,  

Leggies-  Bishoi & R Chahar 

Batting AO -  Venky

Bowling 2nd spinner -Axar 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

Edited November 22, 2021 by prudent_kreeda

[express bowling]

35 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

India has to accelerate transition in T20 along with shedding the too conservative approach.

The direction should be  

1. better use of PP - Hence find a good aggressive opener - invest in Shaw , Ishan at the top

2. Change in top 3 bats. -Move VK down to #4 if he is playing 

3. Fix the middle overs bats - Criteria  They should be able to attack spinners and good against pace - Invest in  Surya ,Pant & Ishan as MO.

4. Have 3 Fast bowlers and play atleast 2 always  -Bumrah, Siraj, Umran

5. Have  2 good trundlers -play one -  Harshal , Shardul / bhuvi

6. Nurture Axar  & develop batting   .

7.Develop leggie -Bishnoy/R Chahar 

8. Identify who is the best bet for death overs bats - My bets would be KL & Pandu (if he bowls) .

9. Include bats who can play at any positions Hence Ishan, KL , Surya Pant  should be always in X1.

 

Thus new guys who should be consistently to be backed and tested first - ( These have to improve but look the right horses to be backed by management)

Bats-  Shaw, Surya, Pant, Ishan,

Pacers -  Siraj , Umran 

Trundler - Harshal ,  

Leggies-  Bishoi & R Chahar 

Batting AO -  Venky

Bowling 2nd spinner -Axar 

 

 

 

Prudent Bhai ...  Wonderful post  !

 

I strongly agree with everything you have written.

 

I have wanted exactly these things for the last few years.

 

1. Atleast 1 dashing opener .. Kishan or Venkatesh or Shaw

2. Not more than 1 consolidator in the top 7

3. Multiple batters who can bat as floaters like Pant, Kishan, Rahul, SKY

4. Give batting opportunities to MO batters in bilaterals.

 

5. Get atleast 2 batting alrounders ready and play atleast 1 ... Hardik and Venkatesh

6. 1 batting cum bowling allrounder at 7 .. like Axar and Jadeja

 

7. Ready atleast 2 bowling all-rounders like Deepak, Harshal, Shardul ... BUT play only ONE.

 

8. Play atleast two 145 k+ bowlers with white ball skills. Create a pool of Bumrah, Siraj, Umran.

 

9. Create a pool of wicket taking spinners like Ashwin and Bishnoi. Play one.

 

 

[Mesky99]

7 hours ago, Vk1 said:

yes, they will go for runs on somedays but having them in the line up will free up our top order and they can play their shots.. having deepak and harshal is a lot better than playing with siraj/shami/avesh kind of bowlers who dont contribute with bat ( shamis so called big hits usually come against spinners in tests).. swap bumrah for bhuvi

You simply don't pick pacers on their late order batting credentials, primary they need to bowl well and pick up wickets, on top if they bat then it's a bonus, what did shardul do against NZ in the world cup? If the top is not consistent enough and the team needs 8,9,10,11 to take them out of a hole then the team is not functioning properly. Harshal standout ATM, bumrah, Siraj, harshal should make up the pace attack.

[express bowling]

23 hours ago, Vk1 said:

we can succeed only if we copy Eng style..  Eng regularly plays 4/5 allrounders per game..

David Wiley, Curran bros get chances repeatedly as they believe in this philosophy.. I dont know if our pure bowlers like Siraj/prasidh/avesh can demand a place on their bowling skill alone..no evidence of it so far after seeing the likes of Saini/Shami/Prasidh

 

 

England's approach of their top 3 going all guns blazing from the start is a good idea.

 

That's what the approach of modern day T20 teams should be. 

 

But they haven't been able to win any of the last 4 T20 World Cups.

 

I get the feeling that Team England have always underachived in all 3 formats because they pick bowlers based on their batting ability. Bowling has never been their strong suit. 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

GOAT OP ,i dont agree with you on this

These bowlers aren't skilled either to use variations for eg Chahar was so dumb using cutters slowers in first over itself,its not like they have so many tricks up their sleeves

We need to have atleast 2 145 + pacers in our lineup,Teams doing well in recent WC had this template and we were just no less minced lamb meat there with toothless pacers(barring Bumrah) operating

[prudent_kreeda]

12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Prudent Bhai ...  Wonderful post  !

 

I strongly agree with everything you have written.

 

I have wanted exactly these things for the last few years.

 

1. Atleast 1 dashing opener .. Kishan or Venkatesh or Shaw

2. Not more than 1 consolidator in the top 7

3. Multiple batters who can bat as floaters like Pant, Kishan, Rahul, SKY

4. Give batting opportunities to MO batters in bilaterals.

 

5. Get atleast 2 batting alrounders ready and play atleast 1 ... Hardik and Venkatesh

6. 1 batting cum bowling allrounder at 7 .. like Axar and Jadeja

 

7. Ready atleast 2 bowling all-rounders like Deepak, Harshal, Shardul ... BUT play only ONE.

 

8. Play atleast two 145 k+ bowlers with white ball skills. Create a pool of Bumrah, Siraj, Umran.

 

9. Create a pool of wicket taking spinners like Ashwin and Bishnoi. Play one.

 

 

Thanks Expressji. Appreciate.! 

Based on the talent we have , TM need to  back the right guys for the right position and make them better than what they are now .

I would be closely watching how the selection goes from here each series . I am OK if India loses some matches  but backs right guys .

If now they go on playing Shreyas in T20 over the above guys that will be stupid judgement on the part of selectors & Dravid .

I have better hope than before in TM (Dravid , Rohit,ASH ) that  they will back up good talent give decent run and create a better env. for fringe player but not so sure the approach will change dramatically so soon. 

 

BTW . I know you were disappointed by Dipak selection for A - > But i think the reason behind that is to make ready a 4th pacer who should be a swing bowler. 

This very specific to fill 4ht pacer for a seaming wicket in SA  and who will be playing in test match rather than grooming for future.

Hence they have sent in Shardul & Deepak. Shardul will be first choice but  not at his best  so Deepak may be sent as cover.

However i  do not  think Deepak will sustain 5 days - either will break down or lose steam quickly. 

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

You simply don't pick pacers on their late order batting credentials, primary they need to bowl well and pick up wickets, on top if they bat then it's a bonus, what did shardul do against NZ in the world cup? If the top is not consistent enough and the team needs 8,9,10,11 to take them out of a hole then the team is not functioning properly.

 

Agree.

 

23 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

Harshal standout ATM, bumrah, Siraj, harshal should make up the pace attack.

 

Yes.

 

Bumrah

Siraj

Harshal 

 

Umran groomed as backup quick pacer for Bumrah, Siraj

 

D.Chahar backup for Harshal.

[prudent_kreeda]

20 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

England's approach of their top 3 going all guns blazing from the start is a good idea.

 

That what the approach of modern day T20 teams should be. 

 

But they haven't been able to win any of the last 4 T20 World Cups.

 

I get the feeling that Team England have always underachived in all 3 formats because they pick bowlers based on their batting ability. Bowling has never been their strong suit. 

 

 

 

Eng without Jofra ,Wood at their best is not a world beating side  They mask up their weakness somewhat by better batting ability. 

[prudent_kreeda]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Agree.

 

 

Yes.

 

Bumrah

Siraj

Harshal 

 

Umran groomed as backup quick pacer for Bumrah, Siraj

 

D.Chahar backup for Harshal.

 

Harshal again might turnout to be short time novelty. Hope he is not totally exposed by the time next WC  comes . A change up pacer at 130s pace will be sorted out . No better example than that leftie from Aus who played around 2012-14 .Slow ball exponent not getting his name .