26/11 Attacks - Reflections

[straighttalk]

12 minutes ago, dial_100 said:

It was an act of war and we didnt do $hit against. My blood boils. Not just that until 2014 their preparedness was none.

 

Worst day of my life. Mumbai is my birth place and it is special place for me. I had visited all these places when I stayed in the city for many years. I wont say much about personal stuff because this is not a right place for it. But those who lose know how much it hurts.

 

Only saving grace in this 3 day long terror act was the piglet getting caught. I will forever be indebted to the god that he was caught alive because if it was not so today we would have been experiencing different India. Since 2014, we have controlled the situation though there is long way to go.

 

We/Indians are not intolerant or we dont hate any specific people. It just that we have grown seeing this, not for 1 or 2 years or not jsut 1 or 2 incidences but every major city, all festive occasions, all year long, again and again for many decades. 

 

But but we have to blame RSS and RW for intolerance. $uckign bollywood jumped the gun letting off those who perpetrated the terrorist act in india, saying lets not blame blah blah while people like Mahesh Bhatt declared it being carried out by RSS and brought Hindu terror angle literally in a bollywood movie style. 

 

Irony is that SS who always claimed to be hindu savior converged with the same Cong/NCP who blamed Hindus for terrorism in India. Despite 26/11 happening in the same Mumbai that SS swaggered as their Karma bhumi. If we cannot trust SS then how do we expect anything better from leaders like Akhilesh, Mamta, or any communist and leftists. 

 

 

Blaming Congress or BJP is myopic. We had Indira Gandhi as a Congress leader who is worth 20 Modis in terms of what she has achieved on national security front. To stand up to US and China at the same time is probably the biggest achievement. The fact is for all our bravado we are a third world country which produces service (IT, finances) with very little technology or manufacturing. Couple that with corruption, poor education, and health care, we cannot afford to spend as much as China. Our defence preparedness wrt China is not same as Pakistans defence preparedeness wrt us. We do have an economic advantage over Pakistan. What is the point of having a war when it would not achieve anything other than killing few civilians on both sides. Do we have the capability to take POK. No. Do we have it now? No. Can we take on China. No. Can we do it now? No.

 

Who won the 65 and 71 War. Congress. Who fought against China in 62 , Siachin in 84, and the Sikkim war against China. Congress led Governments.

Who turned tail at Galwan even when the Army was ready? BJP.

 

Look at Balakot. We do not know what damage we inflicted. Our military didnt say anything or provide any proof. BJP sources came up with laughable numbers in the media. No one has to show operational details but independent sources determined that although the intent was there, the attack failed. Which happens and I do not want to point fingers in the fog of war. But what happened next day paints a sorry state of our state of affairs. We knew Pak was coming and instead we lost an aircraft, had a pilot captured and paraded in front of entire world. We fought with decades old weapons and also shot down and martyred 17 of our servicemen with our own guns. This is the sorry state of our armed forces under BJP governance. We were admittedly in a poorer state under Congress policies. So for all the bravado, it was embarrassment. Only fools and blind Bhakts will consider Balakot as a fine example of Indian bravery.

 

Lest not forget intelligence failure and misgovernance during Kargil War as a parallel to what happened in 26/11. The Lahore bus diplomacy and the guts not to attach Pak caused countless soldiers to die by scaling mountain tops. And less said about our abject surrender in front of Chinese aggression, the better.

 

Point to this is to provide a counterpoint to vested interests in this thread trying to paint Congress as evil and BJP as the savior. That is not the case, we are equally worse under a government that just has better optics and marketing. If our military was poor under Congress, it certainly aint a superpower under BJP.  

 

Lets hold the corrupt leaders everywhere irrespective of party accountable. Modi hasnt really achieved anything but is getting by because of the moron Gandhi and provincial leaders who are more into populism and less in governance. Lets get leaders like Patnaik, Nitish, etc who has a vision and the history of governance to make India healthy, wealthy, and powerful. 

 

[diga]

12 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Lashkar got away very lightly. They lost 10 terrorists who were cannon fodder.

 

I hope in my lifetime we get to see our Army/Intelligence butcher the Lashkar leadership/handlers and anyone who provided them any support the same way those 10 terrorists butchered our people.

Did not know that both you & Ravi were closely connected to the victims of 26/11... sorry to hear about your experience. 

 

the only disconnect while reading through the thread is that how did the terrorists let off an Turkish (Islamic) couple when they never intended to reveal their religion in the first place according to the plan? Was that a faux pas that simply gave them away?

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, straighttalk said:

 Our defence preparedness wrt China is not same as Pakistans defence preparedeness wrt us.

 

May be you should explain this more, One could argue that Indian defence acquisition and posture against a combined China Pak two front is not the same as Paks defence acquisition and posture under Chinese umbrella. But nothing more than that. Defence preparedness is not just acquisition it has org and communication angle political will international relations etc. India can sustain a pretty long two front war, it will be suicidal for Chinese goals if they get entangled into a war with India esp along with Pakistan. 

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, straighttalk said:

Look at Balakot. We do not know what damage we inflicted. Our military didnt say anything or provide any proof. BJP sources came up with laughable numbers in the media. No one has to show operational details but independent sources determined that although the intent was there, the attack failed.

 

Did you expect bollywood style footage? Lol 

 

Sufficient proof has been released by Indian armed forces. There are several detailed discussions on this matter elaborating disinformation campaigns from vested interests in defence forums. 

 

 

[dial_100]

2 hours ago, straighttalk said:

 

 

Blaming Congress or BJP is myopic. We had Indira Gandhi as a Congress leader who is worth 20 Modis in terms of what she has achieved on national security front. To stand up to US and China at the same time is probably the biggest achievement. The fact is for all our bravado we are a third world country which produces service (IT, finances) with very little technology or manufacturing. Couple that with corruption, poor education, and health care, we cannot afford to spend as much as China. Our defence preparedness wrt China is not same as Pakistans defence preparedeness wrt us. We do have an economic advantage over Pakistan. What is the point of having a war when it would not achieve anything other than killing few civilians on both sides. Do we have the capability to take POK. No. Do we have it now? No. Can we take on China. No. Can we do it now? No.

 

Who won the 65 and 71 War. Congress. Who fought against China in 62 , Siachin in 84, and the Sikkim war against China. Congress led Governments.

Who turned tail at Galwan even when the Army was ready? BJP.

 

Look at Balakot. We do not know what damage we inflicted. Our military didnt say anything or provide any proof. BJP sources came up with laughable numbers in the media. No one has to show operational details but independent sources determined that although the intent was there, the attack failed. Which happens and I do not want to point fingers in the fog of war. But what happened next day paints a sorry state of our state of affairs. We knew Pak was coming and instead we lost an aircraft, had a pilot captured and paraded in front of entire world. We fought with decades old weapons and also shot down and martyred 17 of our servicemen with our own guns. This is the sorry state of our armed forces under BJP governance. We were admittedly in a poorer state under Congress policies. So for all the bravado, it was embarrassment. Only fools and blind Bhakts will consider Balakot as a fine example of Indian bravery.

 

Lest not forget intelligence failure and misgovernance during Kargil War as a parallel to what happened in 26/11. The Lahore bus diplomacy and the guts not to attach Pak caused countless soldiers to die by scaling mountain tops. And less said about our abject surrender in front of Chinese aggression, the better.

 

Point to this is to provide a counterpoint to vested interests in this thread trying to paint Congress as evil and BJP as the savior. That is not the case, we are equally worse under a government that just has better optics and marketing. If our military was poor under Congress, it certainly aint a superpower under BJP.  

 

Lets hold the corrupt leaders everywhere irrespective of party accountable. Modi hasnt really achieved anything but is getting by because of the moron Gandhi and provincial leaders who are more into populism and less in governance. Lets get leaders like Patnaik, Nitish, etc who has a vision and the history of governance to make India healthy, wealthy, and powerful. 

 

 

Indira = 20xModi

Stand up to US and China

65 & 71 war

Recapturing of PoK

Balakot

Galwan 

Kargil misgovernance

Modi is incapable

Get Nitish, Patnaik

and bhakta bhakta ... bhakta

 

My comprehension is so bad that in your entire essay, I couldnt related anything to 26/11 and how the $uck RSS was responsible for it and inept response by congress in 2008. 

 

I would easily discuss every single point in your post if you find all the respective discussions we have on this forum for them until then and especially on this thread, try and respond something more relevant to this topic first.

[dial_100]

 

 

 

Kya din the yaar woh jab sab inka hi bol bala tha, totally at a different tangent all together. just wow.

[MechEng]

This thread should be stickied as a reminder to why we should never resume normal relations with Pakistan.

 

[rangeelaraja]

INC under Sonia is not the same as INC under Indira.

 

Modi has been a huge huge disappointment on national security when we thought that is an area where governance would do really well under BJP.

 

Pulwama attacks and it subsequent airstrikes were shamelessly used too win the 2019 elections.  

 

Nothing else was done after that to punish the masterminds sitting in Pak.

 

I strongly wish for Yogi Ji or someone like Himanta Biswa Sarma to be the future PM. They do and then talk.  

 

Inspite of being extremely disappointed at BJP, I have no option but to support them because INC under Sonia, her imbecile son and sycophant traitors is a filthy joke.

 

India could easily adopt a pick between India or Pak approach and decimate Pak's economy. 

 

Getting into a all out no holds barred kinetic conflict is always an option ( minus nukes ), but are we prepared to face massive losses in a few major metros ? 

 

Pak is a beggar state and they as it have nothing to lose.

 

It is a similar story of N.Korea vs. S.Korea. 

 

S.Korea is 100 times wealthier and has the resources & military to wipe out N.Korea, but it will never do so. Because in the process it will lose Seoul and a few other major cities.

 

Seoul is a mere 45 miles from demilitarized zone between South and North Korea.

 

Weakening Pak internally and decimating their economy through inflation and debt is the best and smartest approach to balkanizing them.

 

 

[rangeelaraja]

Stopped watching Bollywood actually around the time this incident happened. I remember reading that Ritesh Deskmukh - son of ex CM and  RG Verma, visited the cite to create a script for a new film. Bollywood of today is a pure gutter. I know the below scene is NOT from a Bollywood movie, but how the * can you be Indian an utter the lines that P chopra uttered from her piggish mouth ?
 

 

[EnterTheVoid]

I still can't get over how Kasab and his friends indiscriminately shot women and children at Kama Hospital. And anyone and everyone at CST.

 

Our response to 26/11 was pathetic.

[EnterTheVoid]

That video of Kasab freely roaming around CST with an AK 47, makes my blood boil. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by EnterTheVoid

[randomGuy]

@rangeelaraja

 

Agree with your points on how to deal with Pakistan by weakening it from within...

 

Disagree on Modi's handling of Pakistan/china...Modi has been fantastic...

 

revoking article 370,

surgical strikes,

balakot strikes (300 Mobile sims were active input given by NTRO, bombs hit the target as confirmed by airchief Dhanoa from satellite images showing holes on building roof of bombs piercing through the roof) Pakistan hid its loss of F16.. first saying 2 pilots captured, not giving details on the 2nd pilot.

General policy of ignoring and exposing Pakistan.

Having the right men for the job like Doval..

Galwan, china hid its losses ...status quo was restored.

 

About your confidence of Pakistan breaking up by June 2022 - are you still as confident and reasons for it to happen in just 6-7 months

Edited November 27, 2021 by randomGuy

[R!TTER]

4 hours ago, MechEng said:

This thread should be stickied as a reminder to why we should never resume normal relations with Pakistan.

 

I'm fine with that, butt butt "peace" as some of our fellow citizens would say 

[beetle]

It was the day we all felt so helpless, so weak , so small.

I hope we aways remember that feeling so that we never ever allow such shameless , spineless people to rule the country.

 

No matter which party, which ideology comes to power.....if they ever make us feel that powerless, helpless....time to change it.

 

 

 

[rangeelaraja]

9 hours ago, randomGuy said:

@rangeelaraja

 

Agree with your points on how to deal with Pakistan by weakening it from within...

 

Disagree on Modi's handling of Pakistan/china...Modi has been fantastic...

 

revoking article 370,

surgical strikes,

balakot strikes (300 Mobile sims were active input given by NTRO, bombs hit the target as confirmed by airchief Dhanoa from satellite images showing holes on building roof of bombs piercing through the roof) Pakistan hid its loss of F16.. first saying 2 pilots captured, not giving details on the 2nd pilot.

General policy of ignoring and exposing Pakistan.

Having the right men for the job like Doval..

Galwan, china hid its losses ...status quo was restored.

 

About your confidence of Pakistan breaking up by June 2022 - are you still as confident and reasons for it to happen in just 6-7 months

 

@randomGuy

 

i disagree my friend. 

Article 370 is purely our internal matter,   It has nothing to do with Pakistan 

 

Striking terror launch pads once every few years only had cosmetic effects ( if at all ) , and you should know better. How many incidences happened after that ? PLENTY.

 

It’s just that when the jawan casualties are higher and big elections are around the corner( state or central ), strikes are timed for political benefit. This is the shameful reality.

 

On China and Galwan, PM Modi bloody lied on national TV ( knowingly or unknowingly ) when he said “ na koi aaya hai, na koi gaya hai” 

 

The Chinese have still blocked our access to a vast area in Depsang Plains ( over 1000 sq km ) that they sneaked into in April 2020.

 

They only moved back from Pangong So and recently Gogra and Hot Springs. 
 

We had their jugular when we occupied Kailash range - and it was this very govt that asked the army to vacate it. And now we are negotiating with them to restore status quo of April 2020. If “ na ka aaya na koi gaya “ - then what are we negotiating for ? 
 

Modi govt gives ZERO transparency on what is happening on China borders. It is almost treasonous.  They don’t have the integrity  to take the country into confidence on the border situation with China. 
 

There is a bloody lot that we can do, tieing up with Taiwan officially and arming them with nukes to once and for all kick China in the balls and end their Taiwan dreams. After all that is what China has done - arming Pak. 
 

Do read the commentary of Bharat Karnad on how we are failing to cultivate a relationship with Taiwan that will cause China to **** bricks. 
 

 

 

[randomGuy]

57 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

@randomGuy

 

i disagree my friend. 

Article 370 is purely our internal matter,   It has nothing to do with Pakistan 

 

Striking terror launch pads once every few years only had cosmetic effects ( if at all ) , and you should know better. How many incidences happened after that ? PLENTY.

 

It’s just that when the jawan casualties are higher and big elections are around the corner( state or central ), strikes are timed for political benefit. This is the shameful reality.

 

On China and Galwan, PM Modi bloody lied on national TV ( knowingly or unknowingly ) when he said “ na koi aaya hai, na koi gaya hai” 

 

The Chinese have still blocked our access to a vast area in Depsang Plains ( over 1000 sq km ) that they sneaked into in April 2020.

 

They only moved back from Pangong So and recently Gogra and Hot Springs. 
 

We had their jugular when we occupied Kailash range - and it was this very govt that asked the army to vacate it. And now we are negotiating with them to restore status quo of April 2020. If “ na ka aaya na koi gaya “ - then what are we negotiating for ? 
 

Modi govt gives ZERO transparency on what is happening on China borders. It is almost treasonous.  They don’t have the integrity  to take the country into confidence on the border situation with China. 
 

There is a bloody lot that we can do, tieing up with Taiwan officially and arming them with nukes to once and for all kick China in the balls and end their Taiwan dreams. After all that is what China has done - arming Pak. 
 

Do read the commentary of Bharat Karnad on how we are failing to cultivate a relationship with Taiwan that will cause China to **** bricks. 
 

 

 

Article 370 internal matter and he revoked which was the right thing to do ... credit to him for this.

 

terror incidents are not expected to stop...but we punished Pakistan for it they know an attack like Pulwama would get them on the doors of an all out war... Phati padi hogi unki, imran was trembling which is why they released abhinandan in a single day

 

China won aksai chin in 1962. There was no boundary line decided but a zone of certain width which both side claim and both sides patrol...if china transgresses into our area , there are several areas where we can  transgress into theirs...NDA/BJP was always serious about raising big army units matching the Chinese on the Eastern front which they have already done...

 

Taiwan has strong trade relations with India... USA protects Taiwan.. Taiwan-china difference is not like India Pakistan (religious fanatic terrorist, frequent terror attacks , firing on loc etc) rather democracy vs communism 

 

 

 

[Vilander]

7 hours ago, beetle said:

was the day we all felt so helpless, so weak , so small

Its down to you, I did not feel anything like that what I and many I spoke with felt is rage. Loved it when their terrorist camps got hit and roasted loved it more when their f solah went down fighting our least potent platform and loved and hated it it when our boy treated himself with dignity when he got captured by PoK residents. Loved it even more whne the handlers in that pic got picked out themselves in the ensuing months. This is a new age war not simple when the enemy hides behind collateral and woke liberal fifth column. Don't be their unwitting mouth piece by projecting how you personally felt.

[rangeelaraja]

3 hours ago, randomGuy said:

Article 370 internal matter and he revoked which was the right thing to do ... credit to him for this.

 

terror incidents are not expected to stop...but we punished Pakistan for it they know an attack like Pulwama would get them on the doors of an all out war... Phati padi hogi unki, imran was trembling which is why they released abhinandan in a single day

 

China won aksai chin in 1962. There was no boundary line decided but a zone of certain width which both side claim and both sides patrol...if china transgresses into our area , there are several areas where we can  transgress into theirs...NDA/BJP was always serious about raising big army units matching the Chinese on the Eastern front which they have already done...

 

Taiwan has strong trade relations with India... USA protects Taiwan.. Taiwan-china difference is not like India Pakistan (religious fanatic terrorist, frequent terror attacks , firing on loc etc) rather democracy vs communism 

 

 

 

 

ON PAKISTAN: 

 

I am afraid you have wrong notions of what is true punishment. Are you comparing life of jawans with life of terrorists ?

 

Us avenging the loss of our soldiers with their terrorists is not punishment.  Their terrorists are cannon fodder. 

 

The true punishment is when the masterminds i.e. the Pak army bleeds uncontrollably. They will only stop when the Pak army suffers non-stop hemorrhages. That is called punishment. You cannot equate life of a soldier with life of terrorist. A terrorist is a brainwashed psychopath on a mission to die and cause as much damage as he can. A soldier has a family, young children and he is there to defend his country but is not a compulsive mission to die. 

 

ON CHINA: 

 

There was a status quo at the LAC, which the Chinese changed in April 2020.  If that is not the case, what are the "negotiations" that the MEA spokesperson keeps talking about that are happening in these endless border commander meetings ? It is for the return of the pre-April 2020 status quo which the Chinese are refusing to honor.

 

Modi LIED when he said  " na koi aaya na koi gaya " . They are firmly in within what was our side of the LAC pre April 2020 in Depsang plains. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I have no option but to support BJP, but Modi has disappointed big time. I thought he is honest and transparent. He is NOT.

 

He is required to win elections. But give me a Yogi Adityanath any bloody day of the week. 

 

China is threatening to upsurp Taiwan by force.  If China can provide Pak with nukes to prevent India from overrunning Pak in a conventional conflict, what stops us from helping Taiwan with nuclear technology and missiles. Just knowing that your neighboring adversary is nuclear armed is a deterrent to an all out conventional war.

 

No country knows China better than Taiwan.  There is a lot that Taiwan can help us with. They make the world's semiconductors - semiconductors that are vital to all the critical electronic manufacturing. 

 

What stops us from opening a Taiwanese embassy and officially recognizing Taiwan ?

 

Why are we afraid of "upsetting " China ? Did China give a damn despite all our protests that CPEC passes through PoK which is our territory ? 

 

Did China give a damn before arming and abetting Pak ? 

 

Did China not deliberately VETO in favor of Maulana Masood Azhar ? 

 

Isn't China the only member of the P5 that is VETOing India's most deserved entry ?

 

They have done everything they can to hurt and undermine our interests, sovereignty and security.

 

Yet like bloody cowards  we do nothing. We can arm Taiwan to its teeth with missiles and nukes to wipe out China's entire prosperous Eastern seaboard ....why don't we do it, SPIT on China's face and tell them this is in response to their propping Pakistan.

 

We lack strategy and vision and self pride as a nation. Modi acts only when elections are around. It is disgraceful. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by rangeelaraja

[sandeep]

17 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

Weakening Pak internally and decimating their economy through inflation and debt is the best and smartest approach to balkanizing them.

 

Problem is that the CCP will keep propping them enough so that India is bogged down and finds it harder to compete/focus against them.  

[beetle]

6 hours ago, Vilander said:

Its down to you, I did not feel anything like that what I and many I spoke with felt is rage. Loved it when their terrorist camps got hit and roasted loved it more when their f solah went down fighting our least potent platform and loved and hated it it when our boy treated himself with dignity when he got captured by PoK residents. Loved it even more whne the handlers in that pic got picked out themselves in the ensuing months. This is a new age war not simple when the enemy hides behind collateral and woke liberal fifth column. Don't be their unwitting mouth piece by projecting how you personally felt.

This is about the Mumbai attack. Nothing happened after the attack. Our spineless PM , Manmohan Singh did not even name Pakistan...it was called a neighboring country....that is how spineless and helpless the UPA govt made us feel.

 

 

That is why when India took strong action after Pulwama, the nation cheered with so much  pride....it was also about not feeling helpless and weak despite having the means to strike back. In a democracy, we are as strong as the will and spine of the govt we choose. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by beetle