Sehwag v Pant in SENA

[Trichromatic]

Sehwag

Matches: 30

Runs: 1871

Avg: 33.41

100s: 4

SR: 73

 

Pant
Matches: 19

Runs: 1096

Avg: 33.21

100s: 2

SR: 63

 

 

[Jay]

23 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Sehwag

Matches: 30

Runs: 1871

Avg: 33.41

100s: 4

SR: 73

 

Pant
Matches: 19

Runs: 1096

Avg: 33.21

100s: 2

SR: 63

 

 

Now check for averages in s.africa and new Zealand and England. 

[Majestic]

Sehwag was a walking wicket in SEN conditions, no questions whatsoever. But same has been case with Pant.

 

Anyways, keeper comparison to opener is not good. Compare MSD vs Pant in all SENA countries. I think MSD has some decent knocks in SEN to his name while Pant has greater knocks in Australia.

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Sehwag was a walking wicket in SEN conditions, no questions whatsoever. But same has been case with Pant.

 

Anyways, keeper comparison to opener is not good. Compare MSD vs Pant in all SENA countries. I think MSD has some decent knocks in SEN to his name while Pant has greater knocks in Australia.

Sehwag became poorer in SENA else he had a 100 on his first tours to SA, England and Australia. His 195 at MCG and 151* at Adelaide in Australia are legendary knocks as well

[Adamant]

Sehwag was an age fudger which he admitted himself otherwise when he was actually young he made runs all over the world including centuries in Sa and Eng. 

Pant has a lot of time though and can take himself to the next level. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

6 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Sehwag

Matches: 30

Runs: 1871

Avg: 33.41

100s: 4

SR: 73

 

Pant
Matches: 19

Runs: 1096

Avg: 33.21

100s: 2

SR: 63

 

 

High-impact, epic, match-winning, series clinching, fortress-breaching, once-in-a-lifetime, kick-butt historic knocks?  Pant da jawaab nahin.   

[vvvslaxman]

For one thing Sehwag was an opener. Don't forget one of his NZ tour was the infamous "drop-in" pitches tour where virtually run making was impossible for the first couple of days both in Tests and ODIs. In the ODIs 

 

 

 

But did better in the ODIs wehre batting was almost impossible. Sehwag was striking at 79 in ODIs. you must see how hard it was up against Bond and co as opener

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

In the second tour of NZ where the pitches were very batsmen friendly he had 200 for the taking. But his rash shot against guys like Vettori and other guys got him into trouble.  Honestly Sehwag's performance in NZ should be taken with a pinch of salt. Everyone made runs there except Sehwag. Hardly conditions were challenging. 

 

In SA they started having third man from the outset for Sehwag.  Sehwag loves Test match field set up. Not ODI field set up. It started messing up his mind. Otherwise Sehwag is a gifted player something world may never see again.  Did he have flaws. Sure he did.  But main flaw was his tendency to go after every ball. Nothing else. In SENA you have to leave a lot of balls as openers. Once the ball gets older you can go after every ball. But he never left balls as much as an opener should do. 

[Majestic]

32 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

In the second tour of NZ where the pitches were very batsmen friendly he had 200 for the taking. But his rash shot against guys like Vettori and other guys got him into trouble.  Honestly Sehwag's performance in NZ should be taken with a pinch of salt. Everyone made runs there except Sehwag. Hardly conditions were challenging. 

 

In SA they started having third man from the outset for Sehwag.  Sehwag loves Test match field set up. Not ODI field set up. It started messing up his mind. Otherwise Sehwag is a gifted player something world may never see again.  Did he have flaws. Sure he did.  But main flaw was his tendency to go after every ball. Nothing else. In SENA you have to leave a lot of balls as openers. Once the ball gets older you can go after every ball. But he never left balls as much as an opener should do. 

Summed up well.

 

The only thing that goes against him is unlike other traditional openers, he wasn't keen on leaving balls outside off that were in the bowlers zone. Lacked the patience to do so.

 

But in one of the NZ series, he was definitely a lone warrior in ODIs on good bowling pitches and that was during his young days only.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Majestic

[zen]

Difficult for me to view top order (#1-3) and middle order (#4-7) batsmen’s numbers in SENA with equal weightage. 

I am not sure what Pant’s average would be if he opened the batting or came 1 down in the first session in SENA. 
 

Sehwag’s numbers could also include his lean phase, while Pant is just starting out. But good to see we have a batsman seeking to make an impact in the lower middle order like Sehwag did in the top order!

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Summed up well.

 

The only thing that goes against him is unlike other traditional openers, he wasn't keen on leaving balls outside off that were in the bowlers zone. Lacked the patience to do so.

 

But in one of the NZ series, he was definitely a lone warrior in ODIs on good bowling pitches and that was during his young days only.

 

Yup Sachin made 2 runs in 3 innings.

[sage]

Openers in SENA need a 5-10 run boost to average for comparison

[vvvslaxman]

Even outside SENA like in  Srilanka on tricky surfaces where others were not comfortable, Sehwag owned guys like Murali, Mendis, Herath.  If Current line up is against them in SL they would be indulging in lungeathon. 

[Lord]

too early. Pant will improve.but cant be compared with opener

 

Sehwag should have been a MO player in SENA

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, Lord said:

too early. Pant will improve.but cant be compared with opener

 

Sehwag should have been a MO player in SENA

 

For someone who was forced to open the innings he has bloody done very well given his risky approach. Many tried opening. Nobody could do well with reasonable consistency.

[ShoonyaSifar]

31 minutes ago, Lord said:

too early. Pant will improve.but cant be compared with opener

 

Sehwag should have been a MO player in SENA

Two back to back terrible away tours to Eng and SA (8 tests, 277 runs@20). Add to this his earlier failure in NZ. Thats 3 out of 4 SENA nations done for him. Tailenderesque batting performance.

 

Because he did well in Aus and vs England at home, he cannot and should not be allowed a very long rope. At best 10 tests, has had 8 tests now. Another series failure vs SL at home and that should be it for his place in the side for now. 

 

Poor fitness will continue to be his biggest bane and if he cannot shed a lot of that flab soon enough, his performances are not going to improve.

[Lord]

7 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Two back to back terrible away tours to Eng and SA (8 tests, 277 runs@20). Add to this his earlier failure in NZ. Thats 3 out of 4 SENA nations done for him. Tailenderesque batting performance.

 

Because he did well in Aus and vs England at home, he cannot and should not be allowed a very long rope. At best 10 tests, has had 8 tests now. Another series failure vs SL at home and that should be it for his place in the side for now. 

 

Poor fitness will continue to be his biggest bane and if he cannot shed a lot of that flab soon enough, his performances are not going to improve.

Why not? there are others sucking for 2 years including the captain.They are failing at home too.Start with them perhaps.

 

10 Tests out of which 8 are away is nothing in comparison.And his keeping has been solid.

 

He was as fat when he was making all those runs. Now suddenly its a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Majestic]

We have got many TTFs in the team. I would go back to team management asking for maintaining certain standards of batting that should be expected of them. A rough sketch of batting averages would be :-

 

Opener 1 :- 30+ in SENA( anyone showing upward trends will obviously be accepted) 

Opener 2: 30+ in SENA

No 3 :- 35+ in SENA

No 4(if he is best bat in the team):- 40+ in SENA

No. 5:- 35+ in SENA

No 6( keeper) :- 30+ in SENA

 

Based on this, the players that pass and fail the criteria are :-

 

KL - 29 and upward trend( Pass but ??)

Rohit - 31 and upward trend( Pass)

Mayank - 27( Fail)

Pujara - 33( Fail)

Kohli - 44( Pass)

Rahane - 34( Fail, especially, with his overall average, on bad days when others are going through rough patch such players can cost home series too)

Pant - 33-34 and downward trend( Pass but ??)

 

Based on this, Pujara, Rahane and Mayank should be dropped. Also, questions should be on guys like Pant as to improve their game and produce more balanced performances everywhere. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

23 minutes ago, Lord said:

Why not? there are others sucking for 2 years including the captain.They are failing at home too.Start with them perhaps.

 

10 Tests out of which 8 are away is nothing in comparison.And his keeping has been solid.

 

He was as fat when he was making all those runs. Now suddenly its a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just because those suckers continue to suck, you want Pant to rot like them? That will be a travesty.

 

For an exceptional talent like him, it's better to go out of the team, work on his batting, improve his fitness and come back to the team. 

 

Before the Aus tour, he had lost 8-10 kgs before/ during the Australia tour. Started putting that weight again during IPL and has only got worse since then. Upto him if he wants to go onto become a great cricketer or just another player who did well in patches

[Vijy]

On 1/10/2022 at 3:04 AM, Trichromatic said:

Sehwag

Matches: 30

Runs: 1871

Avg: 33.41

100s: 4

SR: 73

 

Pant
Matches: 19

Runs: 1096

Avg: 33.21

100s: 2

SR: 63

 

 

there are further similarities too. Oz does not have much lateral movement, so both did well there. in SEN, they are poorer batters. only thing going for Pant is that he can improve in NZ and Eng, provided that they don't dish out only green mambas. I think SA is beyond his current skill level since there is both bounce and movement on most (not all) SA pitches.

 

His fitness is looking suspect these days as well