KL Rahul - “I am not someone who judges himself based on results”

[vvvslaxman]

4 hours ago, Adamant said:

2021 victory in Aus >>>>>>>2018victory in aus>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2003 draw in aus. 

 

 

That team was so pathetic that despite the absence of Mcgrath, Warne,Lee and injury of Gillespie in a match they couldn't win the series, good lord. Bunch of overrated weaklings. 

 

 

No victory is great. All of them are good.  Of course 2021 is going to "look" good because we won with T20 players like Sundar, Natrajan, Thakur. Back then beating world no.1 side Australia was no joke that too in their turf. You keep mentioning about Australian bowling. You really think Thakur, Natrajan and co would have remotely bowled that great Australian batting side out twice?   You ignore the little fact that Australia posted 556 runs in their first innings. Your first job is to get remotely close to that total. You think current side would have done? Absoultely not. This side would have lost by an innings.  Langer/Hayden/Ponting/Martyn/Steve waugh/Simon Katich/Gilchrist. That is a mighty batting line up. Captain was not Tim paine. Captain was steve waugh. You sound like it wsa so easy to get close to 556 runs and then bowl that great line up out for under 200 runs and then scale the total. Mind you INdia's best bowler back then was zaheer khan. He was out due to injury. It wsa Agarkar , debutant Irfan, Nehra, Kumble. Just 4 bowlers.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[raki05]

5 hours ago, Adamant said:

Go back to what discussion I was having, it was specifically about SENA, Virat Kohli's India wins matches by a difference of innings in Srilanka so how could they chase there? 

Lol they lost after given follow on  to Chandimal lead sl team, AtG captain was screwed up by Chandimal of all people. You laugh at Brad Williams, Bichel and McGill attack.  Most of those slkan player were not played even 5-10 test and lol to ATG.

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

Bhai we are talking about 2003 not 1903, BCCI was powerful at that time too, definitely not as much as nowadays but there was no lack of resource, all our players were paid handsomely. 

 

Yes the guys from 1983 had different challenges, don't compare them to 2003 era, in the noughties our cricket was wealthy and they weren't laying any foundation, they themselves were standing on th foundation laid by the likes of Mankad, Hazare, Manjrekar, Bedi, Gavaskar, Dev etc. 

Nope..  2003 India was not a stable a** economy..  BCCI was not all powerful.  Even sponsorship deals weren't as lucrative as they are today. 

It's widely documented after 2007 BCCI finally started flexing its muscles & in 2008 managed subdue ICC for the first time during Monkey gate scandal. 

Domestic scenes of 2003 & current times is also on a completely different level. Indian Lower middle class was totally different back then. 

Of course there is IPl factor. 

There's a reason cricket is rich man's sport.  English domestic county clubs are also full of posh private school going guys.. 

[vvvslaxman]

36 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Lol they lost after given follow on  to Chandimal lead sl team, AtG captain was screwed up by Chandimal of all people. You laugh at Brad Williams, Bichel and McGill attack.  Most of those slkan player were not played even 5-10 test and lol to ATG.

 Bichel was a 140 to 145 kph bowler back then.  So was Gillespie. Also Gillespie bowled 40 overs in the first innings of that test. But it was Bichel that took out Sehwag/Chopra/Scahin.  Lot of tense moments were in that test match. Brad williams repeatedly beat Dravid outside the off stump with slight away movement. He even found an edge and Gilly grassed it.

[Jay]

12 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

No victory is great. All of them are good.  Of course 2021 is going to "look" good because we won with T20 players like Sundar, Natrajan, Thakur. Back then beating world no.1 side Australia was no joke that too in their turf. You keep mentioning about Australian bowling. You really think Thakur, Natrajan and co would have remotely bowled that great Australian batting side out twice?   You ignore the little fact that Australia posted 556 runs in their first innings. Your first job is to get remotely close to that total. You think current side would have done? Absoultely not. This side would have lost by an innings.  Langer/Hayden/Ponting/Martyn/Steve waugh/Simon Katich/Gilchrist. That is a mighty batting line up. Captain was not Tim paine. Captain was steve waugh. You sound like it wsa so easy to get close to 556 runs and then bowl that great line up out for under 200 runs and then scale the total. Mind you INdia's best bowler back then was zaheer khan. He was out due to injury. It wsa Agarkar , debutant Irfan, Nehra, Kumble. Just 4 bowlers.

 

 

2015- 2020 Indian bowling attack would have to troubled that fabled Aussie lineup alot. If nehra and Iran plus agarkar could do well then peak bowling of Indian side of 2015-2020 would certainly be able to dominate their batsmen. 

 

Our batting would have struggled vs mcgrath only. Mcgrath and Cummins are not too dissimilar. Gillespie was a gun but not better than hazlrwood. Similar type of bowler. 

 

So yes. We would be very competitive with them. Not with nattu though.

[Jay]

11 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Nope..  2003 India was not a stable a** economy..  BCCI was not all powerful.  Even sponsorship deals weren't as lucrative as they are today. 

It's widely documented after 2007 BCCI finally started flexing its muscles & in 2008 managed subdue ICC for the first time during Monkey gate scandal. 

Domestic scenes of 2003 & current times is also on a completely different level. Indian Lower middle class was totally different back then. 

Of course there is IPl factor. 

There's a reason cricket is rich man's sport.  English domestic county clubs are also full of posh private school going guys.. 

Same here in Australia. Only people with above average incomes can afford to play crickrt. Middle class and above I.e. 

Most are reasonably well off on average. 

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

2015- 2020 Indian bowling attack would have to troubled that fabled Aussie lineup alot. If nehra and Iran plus agarkar could do well then peak bowling of Indian side of 2015-2020 would certainly be able to dominate their batsmen. 

 

Our batting would have struggled vs mcgrath only. Mcgrath and Cummins are not too dissimilar. Gillespie was a gun but not better than hazlrwood. Similar type of bowler. 

 

So yes. We would be very competitive with them. Not with nattu though.

 

That would make Thakur/Sundar >  2000 batsmen which is definitely not the case. This bowling was good. But largely one-dimensional. Mechanical. Relies on perseverance. Gillespie average in India was 21. Better strike rate and average than Mcgrath. Gillespie was a vastly under-rated bowler. With his 140 click full balls he would have been a handful. These guys  are metronomic with their line.  Current line up would have been devoured by that unit. 

[Jay]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

That would make Thakur/Sundar >  2000 batsmen which is definitely not the case. This bowling was good. But largely one-dimensional. Mechanical. Relies on perseverance. Gillespie average in India was 21. Better strike rate and average than Mcgrath. Gillespie was a vastly under-rated bowler. With his 140 click full balls he would have been a handful. These guys  are metronomic with their line.  Current line up would have been devoured by that unit. 

Who is one dimensional? I am saying our AtG BOWLING from 2015-2020 at its peak would trouble the fabled Aussie batsmen alot. I mean alot. Yes they would trouble us too no doubt. 

But with the addition of young guns it would be competitive. Have to compare both sides at their peak. Would be an even contest. 

 

Gillespie is underrated yes but he is really very much hazlewood esque. He is very good but our batsmen can handle him given they did well vs hazlewood in recent times. 

Haxelwood still averages 23 vs us in australia btw. He is no slouch. 

So the comparison is fair. 

 

Our best bowling attack would be bumrah shami ishant/siraj (should have debuted in 2018 itself) and thakur along with jaddu for Aussie tours. Ruthless. Relentless. Merciless at their peaks. 

 

Would be a scintillating contest. If we pick **** cents like rahane then we would struggle ofocurse. Taking political quota and seniority quotas aside

 

Our best batting lineup would be (2015-2020 I.e.)

 

Rohitaa

Gill

Pujara

Kohli 

Pant

Sundar

Jaddu

 

At their peaks. Also remember pant sundar gill are no where near their peaks but they are still quality batsmen with potential. All playing to their best ability this would be quite even. 

 

People are just too nostalgic about the past. All they do is look at random averages and names to formulate an opinion without any logical reasoning. Doesn't work like that. 

 

Also factor in drs and less biased umpiring. Tbf drs can be rigged by the looks of things but still more accurate than naked eye. Australia were notorious for cheating, getting involved in uncouth like sledging behaviour, biased umpiring and just being sore losers in general. All this nonsense won't work in modern era with technology being able to capture all these incidents makes it tougher for Aussies of yesteryears to implement their game play via intimidation and mental warfare. Also sandpaper gate etc. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Jay

[R!TTER]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

peak bowling of Indian side of 2015-2020 would certainly be able to dominate their batsmen. 

Not without DRS no, zero chances of that!

[Jay]

14 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Not without DRS no, zero chances of that!

So maybe India's attack of 2000 era is underrated due to no drs then? Maybe they would have owned them in drs and unbiased umpiring era. 

 

I mean baby pre prime ishant troubled potning(not at his peak but still decent prime). Was lucky many times due to no drs. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Jay

[R!TTER]

I don't like pre teen words such as owned, destroyed, demolished et al. In serious discussions better keep them away from me, now as for our bowling attack in 2000's they were really good & often times underrated. We came up against Oz but also super flat tracks & no DRS, the likes of Billy *ing Bowden, Darrell Hair/Harper, *nor & a handful of others were truly atrocious umpires! You remember Ind tour of Pak 2004, that was some of the best spell of swing bowling you'll ever see 

 

Pathan & even Balaji were tremendous on generally flat surfaces. With DRS that attack could come close to the the one we have right now & our batting was in peak form back then as well.

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

That would make Thakur/Sundar >  2000 batsmen which is definitely not the case. This bowling was good. But largely one-dimensional. Mechanical. Relies on perseverance. Gillespie average in India was 21. Better strike rate and average than Mcgrath. Gillespie was a vastly under-rated bowler. With his 140 click full balls he would have been a handful. These guys  are metronomic with their line.  Current line up would have been devoured by that unit. 

Things don't work like that. Reputation matters zilch. It's the performance on the ground that matters. Thakur/Sundar did that, rising at the right occassion. We had two real bad tours of Australia, 99 and 2012 when they were past their prime. The difference is our fast bowling is better now than before while Aussie batting has declined. No one could really beat the peak Australian side at full strength at their home. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by rkt.india

[Jay]

21 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Things don't work like that. Reputation matters zilch. It's the performance on the ground that matters. Thakur/Sundar did that, rising at the right occassion. We had two real bad tours of Australia, 99 and 2012 when they were past their prime. The difference is our fast bowling is better now than before while Aussie batting has declined. No one could really beat the peak Australian side at full strength at their home. 

Because they had the best batsmen. Imagine 2015-2020 ATG Asian sttack having those great batsmen to support our great attack. Would be carnage. Also don't forget those great batsmen of Australia benefited alot from flat pitches, no drs, no unbiased umpiring and no no ball umpires etc. 

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Things don't work like that. Reputation matters zilch. It's the performance on the ground that matters. Thakur/Sundar did that, rising at the right occassion. We had two real bad tours of Australia, 99 and 2012 when they were past their prime. The difference is our fast bowling is better now than before while Aussie batting has declined. No one could really beat the peak Australian side at full strength at their home. 

 

Their batting was still full strength. At worst you can draw in such a scenario.  So it was still credit worthy beating such a battle hardened Aussie side.  Next test was the testimony. India was unable to  win the test even after making 700 runs. Of course Parthiv patel made a difference in that series.  Missed a very easy stumping chance of Steve waugh. Eventually Waugh helped them

draw the test.  Also two more dropped catches i think in that SCG test.  

[vvvslaxman]

11 hours ago, Jay said:

2015- 2020 Indian bowling attack would have to troubled that fabled Aussie lineup alot. If nehra and Iran plus agarkar could do well then peak bowling of Indian side of 2015-2020 would certainly be able to dominate their batsmen. 

 

Our batting would have struggled vs mcgrath only. Mcgrath and Cummins are not too dissimilar. Gillespie was a gun but not better than hazlrwood. Similar type of bowler. 

 

So yes. We would be very competitive with them. Not with nattu though.

 

They just needed a better keeper. Having 16 year old Parthiv patel was a nightmare.  Pant despite his flaws in LOIs he is a massive upgrade over Parthiv purely in terms of keeping forget about his batting in Australia.

Edited February 1, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[Frustrated]

KL : "I m someone who judges himself based on the no of toss I win.   Last odi series vs SA, I won 2 out of 3 toss".   Credit where it is due.    

[Vijy]

On 1/31/2022 at 3:49 AM, SRT100 said:

 

Im going to take up KL's mantra here on ICF.

 

I am not someone who judges myself on the quality of my posts on this forum, but how I can bring out the best in other posters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Vijy@express bowling

seems like quite a good approach in some respects IMO

[Vk1]

Why would someone bowl again vs Zim other than for stat padding your captaincy numbers? this guy might be a great player but absolute shiet as a captain.. and to give captaincy to him removing it from Dhawan at the 11th hour..

[Suhaan]

29 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Why would someone bowl again vs Zim other than for stat padding your captaincy numbers? this guy might be a great player but absolute shiet as a captain.. and to give captaincy to him removing it from Dhawan at the 11th hour..

On top of that ,he has pushed Gill and came back to open to adorn his stats bit more

[Chakdephatte]

20 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

On top of that ,he has pushed Gill and came back to open to adorn his stats bit more

 

He needs real match practice before Asia Cup. That's why he is added so late to the squad.