Team Ind could become the Trundler Army

[Vilander]

On 2/20/2022 at 2:57 PM, zen said:

 

Below is how I classify pace (in kmph):

• 150+: Express
• 140-150: Fast
• 130-140: Fast Medium (Fast in 80s and earlier period due to standard of protective equipment, laws, etc.) 
• 120-130: Medium 

Yes, we need to develop options in fast & express category, which makes watching cricket interesting as well   

average pace in a completed inning or fastest deliveries ?  Including or excluding slower ones ? 
 

or is it generally observed when seeing the game and conveniently remembered deliveries ?

 

 

[ABDfan]

12 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He is casually making up a number 12 fast bowlers in paksitan state kPk.  lol   

Nope he is right 

[vvvslaxman]

11 minutes ago, ABDfan said:

Nope he is right 

 

Nope he is wrong.

[rkt.india]

14 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

More importantly the chennai weather is brutal. You lose weight rapidly.  Balaji was good with wrist locking and everything. But he was very fragile.

Just look at the Srilankan fast bowlers like Lahiru Kumara. Built like tank. The oomph that he gets out of the surface with his shoulders is impressive. He probably can be expensive. But he is pretty sharp.  We had Bharat Arun built like tank. But he was trundling. T.A.Sekar was the only one who was known for pace back then. Probably by those day's standards.  Karnataka, Kerala weather is more forgiving. Andhra and TN are known for extreme high temperature.  On docile tracks in hot and humid conditions bowling fast is an unenviable job. So the culture was never there.  Even now Sandeep warrier is their fast bowler who is originally from Kerala. 

Watch out for lokesh Raj from TN. He is probably the quickest TN has ever produced.

[rkt.india]

Fast bowling classification in my opinion. Speeds will over lap but check for the top speed that shouldn't overlap. Bowlers aren't machines that you set a number and they will deliver that pace whole day. Bowlers will vary.

 

Express pace: 145-155+ (top pace over 150)

Fast: 140-150(top pace over 145)

Fast medium: 135-145(top pace over 140)

Medium fast: 125-135(top pace over 130)

Military medium: 115-125(top pace over 120)

 

What's your top pace is decides your qualification combining with average pace even if one of the two is right, this qualification works.

[ABDfan]

20 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Nope he is wrong.

 

21 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Nope he is wrong.

Or you are wrong?

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Fast bowling classification in my opinion. Speeds will over lap but check for the top speed that shouldn't overlap. Bowlers aren't machines that you set a number and they will deliver that pace whole day. Bowlers will vary.

 

Express pace: 145-155+ (top pace over 150)

Fast: 140-150(top pace over 145)

Fast medium: 135-145(top pace over 140)

Medium fast: 125-135(top pace over 130)

Military medium: 115-125(top pace over 120)

 

What's your top pace is decides your qualification combining with average pace even if one of the two is right, this qualification works.

 

Generally speaking what we see is  .... 

 

Fast bowlers 

Fastest Ball in the 144 kph to 149 kph range

Average Speed in the 137 kph to 141 kph range

 

Fast-Medium 

Fastest Ball .... 140 k to 143 k 

Average Speed .... 133 k to 136 k 

 

Express Pacers 

Fastest Ball .... 150 k to 161 k

Average Speed .... 142 k upwards 

 

And these 3 above category Pacers are Quick pacers going by batsmen's reactions.

 

All others are medium pacers.

 

P.S .... A bouncy Fast-medoum pacer may look more hostile than a non bouncy Express pacer.

[AKane]

On 2/20/2022 at 10:19 PM, express bowling said:

I am looking for pacers who have 

 

1)  A quick fuller ball / good length ball that can get bowleds and LBWs.

2)  A back of a length ball that can rear up sharply and get the splice of the bat

3)  A good bouncer 

4)  A good channel ball

 

I am increasingly losing interest in pacers who do not possess the above weapons. 

 

.... Bumrah has all 4 weapons.

 

If Bumrah has all these weapons why has his wicket average  become good(27+ )  but not great in tests over last 2 years compared to before(was 19+  before 2020) ....... and I think you yourself posted his ODI horror averages a little while back? 

[Jay]

3 minutes ago, AKane said:

If Bumrah has all these weapons why has his wicket average  become good(27+ )  but not great in tests over last 2 years compared to before(was 19+  before 2020) ....... and I think you yourself posted his ODI horror averages a little while back? 

Cause he is not good in swing conditions with kookaburra. He is better when conditions are flat and bouncy. He is not a swing bowler. He should be first change imo.

[rkt.india]

47 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Generally speaking what we see is  .... 

 

Fast bowlers 

Fastest Ball in the 144 kph to 149 kph range

Average Speed in the 137 kph to 141 kph range

 

Fast-Medium 

Fastest Ball .... 140 k to 143 k 

Average Speed .... 133 k to 136 k 

 

Express Pacers 

Fastest Ball .... 150 k to 161 k

Average Speed .... 142 k upwards 

 

And these 3 above category Pacers are Quick pacers going by batsmen's reactions.

 

All others are medium pacers.

 

P.S .... A bouncy Fast-medoum pacer may look more hostile than a non bouncy Express pacer.

Umran Malik as of now is the express pacer in India.

Edited February 22, 2022 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, AKane said:

If Bumrah has all these weapons why has his wicket average  become good(27+ )  but not great in tests over last 2 years compared to before(was 19+  before 2020) ....... and I think you yourself posted his ODI horror averages a little while back? 

 

You are right.

 

Previously, Bumrah used to bowl with intensity in 3 spells out of 4.

 

From 2021, he has been bowling with intensity in only 1 spell out of 3 ... and occasionally in 1 spell out of 2.

 

This has made a big difference.

[vvvslaxman]

13 hours ago, Vilander said:

what is your point ? How is it relevant for India seeing a sudden revert back to trundlers.

 

Topic changed in all directions

[ShoonyaSifar]

Taunts young pacers in India face/ have faced from fans after a couple of poor performances - gun barrel straight (Aaron), lacks skills (Siraj in T20s, Saini), cannon fodder (almost all), brainless (younger Umesh), lacks energy and strength (first Prasidh, now Avesh), need to learn to bowl long spells (Umran)

 

Why wouldn't pacers go back to line and length and improve their chances of a 1/45-50 kind of return than a 3//60-65?

[vvvslaxman]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

Cause he is not good in swing conditions with kookaburra. He is better when conditions are flat and bouncy. He is not a swing bowler. He should be first change imo.

 

Precisely why you need variety in your bowling attack. 4 fast spray guns is as bad as 4 trundlers.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Precisely why you need variety in your bowling attack. 4 fast spray guns is as bad as 4 trundlers.

Variety is the key in t20 be it batting or bowling but needs to be properly distinguished. Dnt know how harshal n chahar are put in same category

Chahar is a new ball bowler n Harshal is a death bowler . Sadly the diff is just ending at pace . Even thakur is put in same category who basically is middle phase bowler that to when conditions are suited to or else he is just a bad bowler in LOI 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[vvvslaxman]

21 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Variety is the key in t20 be it batting or bowling but needs to be properly distinguished. Dnt know how harshal n chahar are put in same category

Chahar is a new ball bowler n Harshal is a death bowler . Sadly the diff is just ending at pace . Even thakur is put in same category who basically is middle phase bowler that to when conditions are suited to or else he is just a bad bowler in LOI 

 

Bhuvi and CHahar are like for like.  Harshal is an exclusive slow ball bowler. Thakur difficult to categorize. Predominantly a back of the length bowler. He is mainly in consideration only for his batting. Purely from a bowling point he doesn't add any value as he goes for plenty despite bowling safe overs.  So only one of Bhuvi or Chahar can play.  We are in a situation to analyze every single bowler because of the one-dimensional nature of the side. We also have to keep an eye on the balance.  Lot of teams have at least 6 bowlers minimum. If we have 6 bowlers (3 seamers + 1 seam bowling all rounder + 2 spinning all rounders) means we can have only 4 main batsman excluding keeper. If we drop one 1 all rounder we will end up with just 5 bowlers. Quiet a conundrum. To complicate things most of these fast bowlers suck with fielding too.

[Jay]

Man I love this Indian bowling attack. Look at the studs in this team for tests and even LOI now. 

 

Bumrah

Prasidh

Siraj

Shami for rotation

Tyagi to come through for LOi

Avesh Khan (idiots ruling him out like a padosi degenerate)

Umran malik

Saini

Porel (steep bounce)

Mavi

 

And ranji has just started. More gems will be unearthed. Brilliant india. Best completion in the world. Ranji trophy. Outstanding set of real fast bowlers unlike other teams with phasst trundlers. 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Bhuvi and CHahar are like for like. 

 

yes but bhuvi at his best became an all phase bowler 

 

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Harshal is an exclusive slow ball bowler.

 

Death bowler so actually he shud be compared to nattu coz they ll be doing a similar role. Diff being nattu is a left armer n harshal can bat so both offer something diff

 

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Thakur difficult to categorize. Predominantly a back of the length bowler.

 

mid phase bowler only when grounds are longer and their is something in pitch be it pace, bounce, movement or slowness 

 

 

[Axl100mph]

22 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Even Sri Lanka kya hota hai...  Ghar pe maar ke jaate hai tumhaari wo  Pakistan UAE donno mai Test series haar ke baithe ho unse.  Even during your Fortress UAE days you never beat SL in a Test series.   Chal nikal ab.   Sri lankan never won a Test match in India.  Baap isko volte hai

 

Ghante ke world class bowler

2000 was when we had an underachieving team with a litany of off field issues and a new captain every series.

 

The 2010's decade in the UAE was the most barren in our cricket history for reasons that are obvious, so stop taking solace in our defeat there. The fact that we still kept on competing during this decade and maintained the interest at home is enough of an achievement. 

 

We still won 1-0 in 2013, 2-1 in 2015 away, 1-0 in 2020 against lanka during this decade.

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Axl100mph

[Axl100mph]

22 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He is casually making up a number 12 fast bowlers in paksitan state kPk.  lol   

KPK alone is producing more than half the talent that is coming from Pakistan. 

Ever since the PTI formed government there in 2013, they have invested in the cricket setup in the province and now they are basically running away with all the tournaments starting from under 16's to the senior domestic cricket.

 

The people from KPK are naturally fitter and mentally tougher than other ethnicities. The 140 kph fast bowlers right now for example, Shaheen,  Rauf, Naseem,  Zeeshan zameer, Sameen Gul, Arshad iqbal all have links from that region. And he is right, there are many more who have still not risen to the top level.