India abstains

[Clarke]

9 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Russia is an ally of China as well. What are they going to do if we are at war with China?

 

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/china-russia-trade-has-surged-countries-grow-closer-2022-03-01/

 

 

 

Its not rocket science (something they're leaders in) they carry on with their business of selling energy resources to China & weaponry to India. The concept of partners is different from "either you're with us or against us". 

[mishra]

7 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Is this the 80s?"leaders of the free world" lol ,you may crown them with whatever epithets that you may please and bask in their glory,but don't expect our acquiescence .

Well I thought you made sense if your statement was sarcasm. Else I can understand, India should bomb US UK RUssia simulateously but cow tow to China as its our neighbour

 

[mishra]

US and Mr Biden is asking India to distance itself from Russia, I am all in with that position but not before Security Council be expanded to P6 from P5 and we get replacements for our Security Arsenal at reduced rate so that we can protect our legitimate Security interest in UN and on border. If NOT then Democrats stop Bullshitting how India should manage itself from Not becoming Syria Lybia lebnon Iraq Yemen Afghanistan Pakistan. We have over 1.2 billion large democracy and world can not  afford regime change in India

 

PS: NATO itself buying energy and paying Russians even today.

[LordPrabhzy]

2 hours ago, mishra said:

US and Mr Biden is asking India to distance itself from Russia, I am all in with that position but not before Security Council be expanded to P6 from P5 and we get replacements for our Security Arsenal at reduced rate so that we can protect our legitimate Security interest in UN and on border. If NOT then Democrats stop Bullshitting how India should manage itself from Not becoming Syria Lybia lebnon Iraq Yemen Afghanistan Pakistan. We have over 1.2 billion large democracy and world can not  afford regime change in India

 

PS: NATO itself buying energy and paying Russians even today.

 

Why? 

 

Till our alignment with Russia remains, in the event of a two pronged attack by Pakistan and China, Russia is our only ally to support/back us up. US and the west have always been pro Pakistan so no way we can rely on the backstabbers for anything.

[sandeep]

9 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Yoga, IT,, HR, ancient mysticism etc. sells a lot and esp in last 30 years, India has turned a corner and I believe  world view of India has changed from a land of snake charmers.

 

world view? Who cares what the perception is - bottomline is that the Chinese Communist Party can seize thousands of acres of borderland and you are able to do nothing about it. 

 

You are dependent on China for critical medicines, and on Russia for bullets to bombs.

 

Perceptions of course matter, but focus on hard facts my friend.  Don't get defensive.  When reality is fronted up against, only then can you act to fix it.

 

 

[mishra]

54 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

 

Why? 

 

Till our alignment with Russia remains, in the event of a two pronged attack by Pakistan and China, Russia is our only ally to support/back us up. US and the west have always been pro Pakistan so no way we can rely on the backstabbers for anything.

I kind of agree with the sentiments, however i would like a situation where we can frame our policy independently based upon Indian Humanity. And hence those buts in my statement must be fullfilled to take any independent stand. However the way Indians are, in P6 situation, most likely there will never be another Syria lybia or Iraq. I generally believe most of Indians are ten times more humane then Rest of World

[rkt.india]

On 3/4/2022 at 3:37 AM, mishra said:

  Russia started executing Ukraine invasion plan as soon as Mr Biden was elected (Feb -March 2021 they sent first batch of 4000+ soldiers on excercise). And Biden has not done anything since attack, Financial fight is mostly Brit and EU plan. He refused to comment on Chinese support to Russia in UN.

 

But important part one must remeber is Trump shaked hand with Putin.

And George W Bush shaked booty

[rkt.india]

21 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

world view? Who cares what the perception is - bottomline is that the Chinese Communist Party can seize thousands of acres of borderland and you are able to do nothing about it. 

 

You are dependent on China for critical medicines, and on Russia for bullets to bombs.

 

Perceptions of course matter, but focus on hard facts my friend.  Don't get defensive.  When reality is fronted up against, only then can you act to fix it.

 

 

China also needs that money coming via trade from India.

[goose]

On 3/3/2022 at 11:55 PM, sandeep said:

To me, it seems like the 'noise' around India not going along with the 'west' in the reaction to Russian invasion is getting to you...

 

first i don't think of india going along with or against the West. the toxic discourse and mudslinging is sad to see. both India and West have fantastic values and should learn from each other. heavy manipulation by media and leaders makes this difficult on both sides. i would start a thread on it but would probably get accused of sedition. nobody has a monopoly on the direction india should take.

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, goose said:

 

first i don't think of india going along with or against the West. the toxic discourse and mudslinging is sad to see. both India and West have fantastic values and should learn from each other. heavy manipulation by media and leaders makes this difficult on both sides. i would start a thread on it but would probably get accused of sedition. nobody has a monopoly on the direction india should take.

why give a flying f of what others would 'accuse' of?  If you have some thoughts that you want to discuss, feel free.  I don't believe you are the type to let disagreeing folks dissuade you that easy. 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

On 3/5/2022 at 6:42 AM, goose said:

 

first i don't think of india going along with or against the West. the toxic discourse and mudslinging is sad to see. both India and West have fantastic values and should learn from each other. heavy manipulation by media and leaders makes this difficult on both sides. i would start a thread on it but would probably get accused of sedition. nobody has a monopoly on the direction india should take.

Nobody has claimed you being seditious in these threads, but of naivety and being unaware of India’s history of FP decisions vis-a-vis Russia and West. The abstaining of voting is mutual between India and Russia. You accused ICFers to not care for a death of Indian student which is what the objection was for. I don’t think anybody can stop you from any discussion here. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by coffee_rules

[goose]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

Nobody has claimed you being seditious in these threads, but of naivety and being unaware of India’s history of FP decisions vis-a-vis Russia and West. The abstinence of voting is mutual between India and Russia. You accused ICFers to not care for a death of Indian student which is what the objection was for. I don’t think anybody can stop you from any discussion here. 

 

allow me to explain. there was some back and forth on the abstention between me and ravishingravi. essentially the pragmatism of India's position vis-a-vis Russia versus the utopian or 'naive' view that violence and bloodshed is to be condemned with no exception. there is a consensus on this board that the former is what matters to protect the lives of Indians - fine. i happen to think it is more complex than that but i understand India's dilemma and accept it had to abstain, unfortunately. on Tuesday morning at 9.25 vayuu posted a tweet announcing the death of an Indian in Ukraine due to the very bloodshed and aggression that we apparently are supposed to overlook given India's priorities. about 20 posts later, involving maybe 20 different posters, and over 24 hours later, not a single reaction or acknowledgement to that post. just posts on kashmir, pakistan, weapons. take a look yourself, nothing at all. i thought at the time it was reasonable to point this out. it was naughty but perhaps you can now understand where it came from, and the point i was making. shall we move on?

[nikrulz]

Vendetta in play...

 

UAE added to FATF Grey List

 

Pakistan GSP+ status with EU under revoke consideration.

 

India might escape CAATSA sanctions and that is only because USA needs us to fend off the Dragon in the Indo-pacific region.

 

Saudi Prince just gave an F'U to Biden.

 

World order is changing....will be interesting to see how post war geo-politics develop.

Edited March 5, 2022 by nikrulz

[Clarke]

11 hours ago, goose said:

 

allow me to explain. there was some back and forth on the abstention between me and ravishingravi. essentially the pragmatism of India's position vis-a-vis Russia versus the utopian or 'naive' view that violence and bloodshed is to be condemned with no exception. there is a consensus on this board that the former is what matters to protect the lives of Indians - fine. i happen to think it is more complex than that but i understand India's dilemma and accept it had to abstain, unfortunately. on Tuesday morning at 9.25 vayuu posted a tweet announcing the death of an Indian in Ukraine due to the very bloodshed and aggression that we apparently are supposed to overlook given India's priorities. about 20 posts later, involving maybe 20 different posters, and over 24 hours later, not a single reaction or acknowledgement to that post. just posts on kashmir, pakistan, weapons. take a look yourself, nothing at all. i thought at the time it was reasonable to point this out. it was naughty but perhaps you can now understand where it came from, and the point i was making. shall we move on?

 

No

Ur expecting others to think and act like u. 

Just plain wrong. 

[ravishingravi]

 

[ravishingravi]

 

[ravishingravi]

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

7 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

 

My blanket opinion of political leaders:  Sab kameenay hain. 

 

What if India and China had come out swinging firmly, taking a principled stance in favor of the invasion instead of abstaining?  This whole abstaining thing seems like a trying-to-play-both-sides, cop-out strategy. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by BacktoCricaddict

[coffee_rules]

5 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

My blanket opinion of political leaders:  Sab kameenay hain. 

 

What if India and China had come out swinging firmly and taking a principled stance in favor of the invasion instead of abstaining?  This whole abstaining thing seems like a trying-to-play-both-sides, cop-out strategy. 

And this is not the first time, NAM (Non-aligned BS) was a proxy for USSR

[Serpico]

3 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

What if India and China had come out swinging firmly and taking a principled stance in favor of the invasion instead of abstaining?  This whole abstaining thing seems like a trying-to-play-both-sides, cop-out strategy. 

Why should they say that when abstaining is good enough. When you are bargaining, you start with low price and only increase if it isn't good enough. Right now abstaining seems good enough to Russia, so no need to voluntarily pay higher price