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Good old familiar LOI scorecard!

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BATTING   R B 4s 6s SR
Rohit Sharma (c) lbw b Topley 0 10 0 0 0.00
Shikhar Dhawan  c †Buttler b Topley 9 26 1 0 34.61
Virat Kohli  c †Buttler b Willey 16 25 3 0 64.00
Rishabh Pant  c sub (PD Salt) b Carse 0 5 0 0 0.00

 

 

Less said about the top 3, the better (in the low pressure situation in the last game, the openers stats padded) ... Pant, if he plays should ideally bat in the top order (#1-3) or lower middle order (#6-7) 

 

In the short term, there is no escaping from these tired and familiar faces :hmm:

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Adamant said:

Oh so today's match was a high pressure one and not just  another bilateral :cantstop:

 

 

Buddy, you need to improve reading comprehension and/or deduction skills before posting on social media :nod:

 

We are not talking about the degrees of importance of the games but of the situations relatively speaking and the current abilities of the players to handle them  ... And not anyone’s fault if Kohli or whoever continues to fail (if that is causing you to misread) … PS if one of players being discussed had done well with wkts falling around, he would have been praised for his “fighting” effort (ability to handle various situations is discussed even in Vijay Hazare and practise games)

 

Shoo 

Edited by zen
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2 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Buddy, you need to improve reading comprehension and/or deduction skills before posting on social media :nod:

 

We are not talking about the importance of the game but of the situations relatively speaking ... And not anyone fault if Kohli or whoever continues to fail (if that is causing you to misread) 

 

Shoo 


240 is not a big score top order will fail and middle and lower order should contribute 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, gattaca said:


240 is not a big score top order will fail and middle and lower order should contribute 

 

The top order, which has Ind's most experienced batsmen, failures are far too often under relatively pressure situations (a fighting score put up by Eng here relatively speaking versus last time)

 

Rohit is playing international cricket since 2007, Kohli since 2009, & Dhawan since 2010 ... These guys have played 150 to 250+ODIs, batting themselves in their preferred positions,  while others (apart from Jadeja who debuted in 2009) have not even played 100 and tend to bat in positions usually assigned to them (or considered difficult)

Edited by zen
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Dhoni could play out overs and get team over the hump in many matches when top three failed.When will these bozos (Pandya and Jadejas) take up the mantle. Pandya is playing since 2016 and Jadeja since 2008.They don't have to win matches but get the team close.

 

Both of them have played more matches than Kaif or Yuvi did when they chased 326 from 146/5 on the same ground. 

 

Somethings never change , If they were any good they would have become main acts by now. 

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Good old familiar scorecard where the #4-#7 fail to provide any hope of a chase and give up. 

 

Ind MO, along with new players in the top order, has helped Ind compete in games against SA (at home but a strong team), Ire, and Eng 

 

PS Talking about chasing, in the last T20 in an Ind top order (#1-3) with Rohit-Kohli where Ind chased a competitive total:

 

INDIA INNINGS (Target: 216 runs from 20 overs)
BATTING   R B M 4s 6s SR
Rohit Sharma (c) c Salt b Topley 11 12 26 2 0 91.66
Rishabh Pant  c †Buttler b Topley 1 5 7 0 0 20.00
Virat Kohli  c Roy b Willey 11 6 8 1 1 183.33

 

This is in 2 out of last 3 LOIs chasing (add to that wickets to a left arm pacer)

Edited by zen
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1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

Good old familiar scorecard where the #4-#7 fail to provide any hope of a chase and give up. 

 

2 years back against same England Australia was 73/5 chasing 302/7. This was a much better bowling attack. Archer/Woods/Woakes

 

Full Scorecard of England vs Australia 3rd ODI 2020 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

you think India would have done this?

 

 

 

 

Edited by vvvslaxman
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48 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

2 years back against same England Australia was 73/5 chasing 302/7. This was a much better bowling attack. Archer/Woods/Woakes

 

Full Scorecard of England vs Australia 3rd ODI 2020 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

you think India would have done this?

 

 

 

 

As said if you rely on Pandya and Jadega as an mo batter you will fail most of the occasion. Atleast you can Guarantee Jadeja can hold one end. But Pandya can't win you a zilch in pressure situation. Some nonsense expert saying 240 in biletrals is pressure situation. Bloody so top order are not allowed to fail in low scoring chase and if they would have chased it like last match than these same expert would have said , hey look they are doing stats padding in biletral. We know our top order has issues due to them being old or lost of touch but bc who asked Pant , Jhantu Pandya and Jadeja to not grab this opportunity. As I refered in other thread Kohli, Rohit, Dhawan , Yuvi even Kaif dint take seven years to chase down big target less said about these low totals. Some of them have chased more than 300 target when it was still a tough score to chase and when they were still not even 23-24. I can execuse sky as he is new, Pant also because he has age and has shown immense potential in chasing down total in test and still sorting out his loi. But Pandya and Jadeja can't hide themselves in disguise of youngsters. 

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5 hours ago, zen said:

 

The top order, which has Ind's most experienced batsmen, failures are far too often under relatively pressure situations (a fighting score put up by Eng here relatively speaking versus last time)

 

Rohit is playing international cricket since 2007, Kohli since 2009, & Dhawan since 2010 ... These guys have played 150 to 250+ODIs, batting themselves in their preferred positions,  while others (apart from Jadeja who debuted in 2009) have not even played 100 and tend to bat in positions usually assigned to them (or considered difficult)

You said in the other thread England lost because it was not an important match how did pressure come here ? 250 plus doesn’t mean one day they will get out cheaply. Kohli has been in poor form. 

Edited by gattaca
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, gattaca said:

You said in the other thread England lost because it was not an important match how did pressure come here ? 250 plus doesn’t mean on day they will get our cheaply. Kohli has been in poor form. 

 

We are not discussing degree of importance of games but situations. Even in Vijay Hazare or a practise game, we can see how players handle situations.

 

Rohit-Kohli  have been getting out cheaply. Just in this series, this is the 2nd time in last 3 LOIs (1 T20 + 2 ODIs, Kohli did not play in one of the games) ... and then we can go back to some "important" games such as versus NZ in 2019 SF, and in T20 WC versus Pak & NZ, along with 2017 CT final. 

 

 

PS Please don't misquote me from other threads. 

 

 

Edited by zen
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59 minutes ago, raki05 said:

As said if you rely on Pandya and Jadega as an mo batter you will fail most of the occasion. Atleast you can Guarantee Jadeja can hold one end. But Pandya can't win you a zilch in pressure situation. Some nonsense expert saying 240 in biletrals is pressure situation. Bloody so top order are not allowed to fail in low scoring chase and if they would have chased it like last match than these same expert would have said , hey look they are doing stats padding in biletral. We know our top order has issues due to them being old or lost of touch but bc who asked Pant , Jhantu Pandya and Jadeja to not grab this opportunity. As I refered in other thread Kohli, Rohit, Dhawan , Yuvi even Kaif dint take seven years to chase down big target less said about these low totals. Some of them have chased more than 300 target when it was still a tough score to chase and when they were still not even 23-24. I can execuse sky as he is new, Pant also because he has age and has shown immense potential in chasing down total in test and still sorting out his loi. But Pandya and Jadeja can't hide themselves in disguise of youngsters. 

 

India  backed cameo kings instead of innings builders who can finish in the middle order. 

 

This match is from the 90s. India was 58/0 suddenly reduced 64/4.  Lost 4 wickets for 6 runs.  Then Azharuddin exhibited the art of singles/twos taking.  He hit a grand total of 5 fours. But strike rate in the end was 94.  India came extremely close before they imploded.  3 early wickets should absolutely mean nothing. Rest should be able to develop a partnership and resurrect the innings. 

 

Full Scorecard of Sri Lanka vs India 1st ODI 1997 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

Many world cup winning sides have suffered collapses in their journey. They managed to come back into the game. Australia in 1996 in the semis were 15/4 ,   In 2003 world cup they were 84/7 against NZ.  India was 17/5 in 1983 world cup against zimbabwe.  Teams who have the ability to overcome adverse situations win world cups.  Not completely depending on the top order.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Here we are talking about a particular recent pattern (maybe some folks don't know what a pattern is) discussing the top order (#1-3) and we get to see some once in a lifetime examples of player A-B in team X in year Alpha, player C-D in team Y in year Beta, player E-F in team Z in year Gamma (if once in a lifetime examples are counted - the guys in the MO scored a 100 in the recent 3rd T20s, in Aus ODIs one middle order player averaged 100+, in CT 2017, ...)  :facepalm:


 

Edited by zen
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Just now, nitinbwj said:

Starc smacked 11 off 3 in that game @vvvslaxman mentioned. Our bowlers are hopeless. We have Frauds from top to bottom. 

 

One-dimensional unit. The team is in such a way that they have to play near perfect game in every match.  There should not be any errors, mistakes. No room for failures at all. Prasidh/Chahal fielding is an embarrassment. Guys like Maxwell , Cummins are terrific fielders. Prasidh can't bat. His only skill is bowling. When he fails there that's it he cannot offset that with a good fielding or good batting. We have quiet a few like that.  Livingstone can bowl/slog and he is a terrific fielder too. 

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Ok this is the bottom line 

 

Out of 65 ODIs he played, Pandya has 1 50 chasing successfully in Indore against Aus. None outside India. If Jadeja is useless in ODIs, Pandya for 6 years has returned zilch on investment. we need a reliable MO. Tuk tuk Rohit is not a solution in retort. He has been winning more than the unreliable MO in last 5 years.
 

And people here compare him to Kapil Dev, Ben Stokes.. Even Chaminda Vaas was a better matchwinner

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55 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

India  backed cameo kings instead of innings builders who can finish in the middle order. 

 

This match is from the 90s. India was 58/0 suddenly reduced 64/4.  Lost 4 wickets for 6 runs.  Then Azharuddin exhibited the art of singles/twos taking.  He hit a grand total of 5 fours. But strike rate in the end was 94.  India came extremely close before they imploded.  3 early wickets should absolutely mean nothing. Rest should be able to develop a partnership and resurrect the innings. 

 

Full Scorecard of Sri Lanka vs India 1st ODI 1997 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

Many world cup winning sides have suffered collapses in their journey. They managed to come back into the game. Australia in 1996 in the semis were 15/4 ,   In 2003 world cup they were 84/7 against NZ.  India was 17/5 in 1983 world cup against zimbabwe.  Teams who have the ability to overcome adverse situations win world cups.  Not completely depending on the top order.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ya I remember this game .As you rightly pointed out GOAT aus also had top order collapsed many times in crunch matches but their mo even lo overcoame and set competitive total or chased down meagre total. If these mediocre bunch of mo can't chase 240 in a jam odi against these english trundlers how would you expect them to perfom in crunch wc games. always crying about top order would never solve the issue. To some extent Hooda and sky looks like batsmen with some nerve as shown during t20 or else these Pandya and Jadega should not bat anywher in top 6 only one of them should play only if the play as 5th bowler and as bits and piece batter.

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8 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Ok this is the bottom line 

 

Out of 65 ODIs he played, Pandya has 1 50 chasing successfully in Indore against Aus. None outside India. If Jadeja is useless in ODIs, Pandya for 6 years has returned zilch on investment. we need a reliable MO. Tuk tuk Rohit is not a solution in retort. He has been winning more than the unreliable MO in last 5 years.
 

And people here compare him to Kapil Dev, Ben Stokes.. Even Chaminda Vaas was a better matchwinner

Not people only some first world junk analyst.:phehe:. I am surprise that we have die hard fans for chapri player like Pandya. This is the lowest one can stoop to player worshipping.

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