We are responsible for this monster

[Mesky99]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Ok so best bet is talented cricketers with good instagram support can reach the main 11. Problem is both seldom coexist and the opposite is usually true. Only true athletes who are completely dedicated to their craft and literally live and breathe their sport can reach the top and maintain their peaks. Ala Ronaldo, Messi, nadal, federer have this in common..

Steven Smith in cricket and perhaps root actually are the only ones I can think of that are truly dedicated to their craft and would play the sport the same way irrespective of how much they earn for a living

 

Coolie will not. Period.

Kohli's value can drop overnight if someone in the team becomes a bigger star coommercial sadly none of them have that capability atm, kl tried during the 2016-18 period but he kept loosing his place in the team to dhawan who would minnow bash sl/bang and keep his place, kohli was never held accountable for his team selection, a lot of the decision making was done keeping in mind his commercial duties to.

[Adamant]

2 hours ago, SRT100 said:

lol. I do need to educate and teach you about Western Countries and thats ok, its a forum and Im here to help and make you understand.

 

I'd rather french kiss a dead skunk than take knowledge of the western world from an Indian living in Australia. 

 

You people try hard to get all tough and heavy to mix up with the Aussie culture but then go all purring like a cat when they refer to you as curry munchers or butter chicken. 

 

So yeah I am good here in India. 

 

2 hours ago, SRT100 said:

 

Its absolutely cute and adorable that you think you understand and clutch onto Kohli like some sought of Hindu demi God.

Well Says a fan who licks the boots of Tendulkar in every other thread, well atleast no one calls Kohli a god. 

 

2 hours ago, SRT100 said:

In all other major sports outside of India, like EPL, NFL,NBA, Rugby, AFL superstars/legends are not only dropped for underperforming, they are traded.

Well can you tell me why Aus sticked with Ponting despite a poor run in the last 3 4 years. 

Isn't that totally different to the Aussie culture. 

 

While you ponder on that do tell me what is Steve Smith doing in the aussie t20 squad and how he has played so many t20s despite doing anything relevant. 

2 hours ago, SRT100 said:

 

I will keep it simple so you understand, one of the biggest all time Clubs, like Man U, traded Beckham and even Ronaldo, where Kohli is absolutely nothing compared a complete zero to these two in terms of world standing, legendary standing, respect, admiration and wealth. There are many examples.

 

Again that's what happens when you have no knowledge of the gibberish you are spouting,  interacting with you and Jay I have really formed an opinion about Indians in Aus. 

 

Christiano Ronaldo wasn't traded bcoz of form and also he wasn't the Superstar that he is at present. 

You need to dig a lot before coming up with that weak an argument. 

 

As for Beckham, the guy was always more style than substance which can be seen both in his stats and performances. 

 

2 hours ago, SRT100 said:

 

Now sit down, keep quiet and let those that fully grasp and understand the concepts at play, discuss further.

First of all you are fan of a guy who lost us an asia cup vs Bangladesh to complete his 100th hundred, so simmer  down and retrospect, you are yourself a part of the problem you are addressing. 

 

As far as you can ur advice goes - 

I gave more attention to the contents of my handkerchief the last time I blew my nose than I did to what you wrote. 

[SRT100]

2 hours ago, Mesky99 said:

Kohli's value can drop overnight if someone in the team becomes a bigger star coommercial sadly none of them have that capability atm, kl tried during the 2016-18 period but he kept loosing his place in the team to dhawan who would minnow bash sl/bang and keep his place, kohli was never held accountable for his team selection, a lot of the decision making was done keeping in mind his commercial duties to.

 

Cannot happen the older players get injured too easily and the younger kids are not performing consistently to place pressure on Kohli.

 

If Pant became a "Dhoni" at his peak, now in 2022, then maybe. Pandya could as well, if he doesnt get you with bat, then its ball.

[Adamant]

22 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

what folks should think about, is how since 2017, in spite of having obvious talent, guys like KL Rahul were never allowed the space in ODI top order to become regular contributors.  All to protect the marketing monopoly of kuptaan wrogn.  From 2016 onwards, did you see any young batsman ever get proper opportunities?  When Sehwag emerged with his talent - he wasn't the most consistent, but he was right away given a run at the top order even though he started at #6.  And KL Rahul inspite of best test opener. 

Here comes th good old young player rant, to which everyone in ICF will jerk of. 

 

Two points - 

1. What has KL Rahul done after he got a fixed spot in the team? You blame it on everyone but him. There's a reason why he averages 35 in test cricket. 

A player averaging 35 in test cricket is never gonna take over Kohli, now add this to his already shambolic record in any match which matters.

 

There was no player at that time In Indian cricket who could have replaced Kohli's brand, none.

 

The icfers here have gone blind, the bad performance of youngsters here is linked to top order, lol. 

 

Why has Pant failed to do much in lois? Is that again on top order.

 

Why can't Iyer play anything above waist height? 

 

Why has Pandya been injured for last 2.5 years and gets fit just befor IPL and did nothing of note in the last wt20? 

He got enough backing didn't he. 

 

This post has no facts, it's just a rant by someone who is hurt that the top order is hailed in India (bcoz of their performances), unsurprisingly you are a big fan of Pandy, but do remember he is never gonna have the brand Kohli has bcoz this loser has already retired from test cricket. 

 

I know who I should hail and who I should deplore, these young guys barring Pant have hardly done anything.. 

 

Virat Kohli was world's numero UNo batter in 2018, 2019, the thought that these young bozos would have overtaken him at that time can only come from a deluded mind. 

[Chakdephatte]

28 minutes ago, Adamant said:

1. What has KL Rahul done after he got a fixed spot in the team? You blame it on everyone but him. There's a reason why he averages 35 in test cricket. 

A player averaging 35 in test cricket is never gonna take over Kohli, now add this to his already shambolic record in any match which matters.

 

There was no player at that time In Indian cricket who could have replaced Kohli's brand, none.

 

The icfers here have gone blind, the bad performance of youngsters here is linked to top order

 

Why can't Iyer play anything above waist height? 

 

Why has Pandya been injured for last 2.5 years and gets fit just befor IPL and did nothing of note in the last wt20? 

He got enough backing didn't he. 

 

This post has no facts, it's just a rant by someone who is hurt that the top order is hailed in India (bcoz of their performances), unsurprisingly you are a big fan of Pandy, but do remember he is never gonna have the brand Kohli has bcoz this loser has already retired from test cricket. 

 

I know who I should hail and who I should deplore, these young guys barring Pant have hardly done anything.. 

 

Virat Kohli was world's numero UNo batter in 2018, 2019, the thought that these young bozos would have overtaken him at that time can only come from a deluded mind. 

 

This forums suffers from 'tough words' syndrome. They think by writing long paragraphs criticizing a big name, they are doing world a big favor. Doesn't matter if it's Ganguly, Shastri, Kohli, Dravid, or anyone, whoever takes charge becomes villain of Indian cricket. This Sandeep though, is generally good. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Chakdephatte

[Mesky99]

1 hour ago, SRT100 said:

 

Cannot happen the older players get injured too easily and the younger kids are not performing consistently to place pressure on Kohli.

 

If Pant became a "Dhoni" at his peak, now in 2022, then maybe. Pandya could as well, if he doesnt get you with bat, then its ball.

Yhh that's the thing is not as if any of the younger players have taken stage and churned out great performances, kohli did it at 24/25, scored centuries for fun and kept all the endorsements for himself, if subhman was scoring centuries not fishing outside off stump he could have maybe taken kohli on commercially buts it's not the case, no one in the Indian team likes kohli bar kl Rahul and Siraj, if not for the sajdeh family Rohit to would have had it tough commercially. 

[Adamant]

3 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

. This Sandeep though, is generally good. 

Yes he is. 

I always attack the message not the messenger with some exceptions. 

[sandeep]

12 hours ago, Adamant said:

There was no player at that time In Indian cricket who could have replaced Kohli's brand, none.

 

Brand??!!! 

 

I DGAF about either Kohli's 'brand', or any other individual player's 'brand'.  This is exactly what the problem is with a huge section of the fanbase.  They are more concerned and enamored with individual "stars" and their brand.  Can you frikin believe this brand bullshit.  

 

12 hours ago, Adamant said:

Why has Pandya been injured for last 2.5 years and gets fit just befor IPL and did nothing of note in the last wt20? 

He got enough backing didn't he. 

 

Ignorant folks won't understand what a stress facture of the back is - anybody who bowls fast - and I mean top tier fast - is susceptible to it.  Whether its Cummins, Bond, Archer - and many others.  That type of injury isn't a player's "fault".  Its the price paid for the type of work they do on the cricket field.  And by the way, go check Hardik Pandya's ODI stats even while he was kept at #6 in the setup.  Best in class Strike rate and average combination even just talking about batting only.   Look what he did when he was given an opportunity to bat in the middle order instead of the lower order in the 1st IPL he led a newbie team - just won the damn tournament that's all.  And guess what, I DGAF about Pandya or his brand either - to me, his value is to the extent of his utility as a player for the INDIAN TEAM.  That's the only brand I care about.  

 

And on KL Rahul - yes today if you look at his aggregate stats they may not look impressive.  But dial back to 2017, 2018 and its a very different picture.  I think that's the time where he may have set a India record with most number of successive test matches with 50+ scores - thats how consistent he was in tests.  On top of that, think  back to the last time India played a T20 in Florida - KLPD Rahul almost single-handedly won that T20 for India chasing 240-odd, only for Dhoni to lose it by failing to score a couple of runs at the end.    One of the minor flaws that KLPD Rahul has, is that he's a bit questionable on the mental strength front.  And all the jerking around he went through in the 2017 to 2019 timeframe has messed with his head.  He realized that he wasn't getting into the top order unless he also adopted the glory-hunting individual landmark seeking "big" hundred scores in ODIs a la Rohit and Virat.  And ended up changing his batting style to more of an "anchor" method.   Sure, ultimately a player is personally responsible for the decisions and choices he makes, but the environment and situation he finds himself in, plays a contributing role at a a minimum.  

So yes, I do hold the team management and your favorite "brand" Virat 'kuptaan wrogn' kohli responsible for the abject mismanagement of Indian batting tactics as a team, and an utter shyteshow of the complete opposite of getting the most out of player resources - underachieving while limited outfits like the kiwis who have less of a player pool than Shivaji Park frikkin Gymkhana end up playing WC Final instead of "brand" India.  

[coffee_rules]

^^Proves a Gujju always roots for another . Hardik Pandya’s ODI stats are as good as Jadeja’s - useless . But he is valuable now because TINA. If Pant, SKy and maybe KL in MO get consistent we will be less dependent BNP players like Hardik, Jadeja. 

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

^^Proves a Gujju always roots for another . Hardik Pandya’s ODI stats are as good as Jadeja’s - useless . But he is valuable now because TINA. If Pant, SKy and maybe KL in MO get consistent we will be less dependent BNP players like Hardik, Jadeja. 

Please list the top batsmen across the world batting at #6 or lower, what is their ODI batting average  and SR.  who are the best?  

 

Jaddu is a proven failure in white ball cricket as a batsman, Hardik is orders of magnitude better than him as a batsman, and you clubbing the 2 of them in the same bucket shows only ignorance - non-gujju or otherwise.  

 

Btw, I love jaddu the test cricketer - he's still underrated.  But I don't want to see him in any white ball squad,  let alone playing XI - ODI or T20.  

[coffee_rules]

22 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Please list the top batsmen across the world batting at #6 or lower, what is their ODI batting average  and SR.  who are the best?  

 

Jaddu is a proven failure in white ball cricket as a batsman, Hardik is orders of magnitude better than him as a batsman, and you clubbing the 2 of them in the same bucket shows only ignorance - non-gujju or otherwise.  

 

Btw, I love jaddu the test cricketer - he's still underrated.  But I don't want to see him in any white ball squad,  let alone playing XI - ODI or T20.  

He has played 65 odd ODIs to call him world’s best #6 atm. You are over-selling him in ODIs based on his T20s or IPL heroics. He is not our Maxwell or Stokes to win matches on his own when we are down. For India right now he is good because TINA. 

[Chakdephatte]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Brand??!!! 

 

I DGAF about either Kohli's 'brand', or any other individual player's 'brand'.  This is exactly what the problem is with a huge section of the fanbase.  They are more concerned and enamored with individual "stars" and their brand.  Can you frikin believe this brand bullshit.  

 

So yes, I do hold the team management and your favorite "brand" Virat 'kuptaan wrogn' kohli responsible for the abject mismanagement of Indian batting tactics as a team, and an utter shyteshow of the complete opposite of getting the most out of player resources - underachieving while limited outfits like the kiwis who have less of a player pool than Shivaji Park frikkin Gymkhana end up playing WC Final instead of "brand" India.  

 

I don't understand why you people criticize 'brand' and 'superstar'. Who do you think tese superstars are, Supermen? They are just like other player, but they developed their game much more and hence people love them more. If certain someone keeps winning you games for 5 years, he is ought to be a star and there's nothing wrong with it. Matchwinner is a more apt term.

[rollingstoned]

On 7/15/2022 at 6:10 PM, SRT100 said:

 

Correct.

 

Dont blame Kohli and Dhawan. Hell I would play for India and couldnt care if I failed every innings if picked. Its massive amounts of money at stake here. No poster is shameless to say they wouldnt do the same.

 

Unfortunately we live in a world, where its Family First, then Mother India.

The problem is with BCCI and TM.

Actually even 15 yrs ago it wasn't this bad. Barring Sachin everyone else was not guaranteed their place in the team regardless of their profile and many of them had to make a comeback after getting dropped. Gundappa Vishwanathan's career pretty much ended after 1 bad series iirc in the 80s. 

In general though Asian cricketers seem to retire later than non-Asian ones barring one or 2 exceptions who still stuck around despite having something to offer eg. Dravid, Sangakkara.

[SRT100]

2 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

Actually even 15 yrs ago it wasn't this bad. Barring Sachin everyone else was not guaranteed their place in the team regardless of their profile and many of them had to make a comeback after getting dropped. Gundappa Vishwanathan's career pretty much ended after 1 bad series iirc in the 80s. 

In general though Asian cricketers seem to retire later than non-Asian ones barring one or 2 exceptions who still stuck around despite having something to offer eg. Dravid, Sangakkara.

 

Here in Australia they sack/drop players when they have reached the end.

 

They wont carry them into a World Cup ever.

 

SRT did go for too long, but he still had decent contributions at the end, its not like he fell of the cliff and failed in every innings like Kohli almost does.

[sandeep]

6 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

He has played 65 odd ODIs to call him world’s best #6 atm. You are over-selling him in ODIs based on his T20s or IPL heroics. He is not our Maxwell or Stokes to win matches on his own when we are down. For India right now he is good because TINA. 

Nowhere did I call him "world's best".  You put him in the same bucket as Jadeja. Which he's absolutely not.  Perceptions can sometimes mislead, but one should be open to correcting them with data - its ok to be 'wrong' about something.  I'm wrong often, that's how we learn.

[sandeep]

To be honest, I don't have that much of a problem with Virat being given a long rope in ODI cricket. Even test cricket.  Its t20s that he doesn't belong in.  

 

As a batsman, I think its not unreasonable to give him some slack in ODI cricket for sure.

 

My issues have been with his glaringly obvious sub-par leadership of the Indian batting unit in ODI cricket and to some extent T20.

Edited July 17, 2022 by sandeep

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, sandeep said:

To be honest, I don't have that much of a problem with Virat being given a long rope in ODI cricket. Even test cricket.  Its t20s that he doesn't belong in.  

 

As a batsman, I think its not unreasonable to give him some slack in ODI cricket for sure.

 

My issues have been with his glaringly obvious sub-par leadership of the Indian batting unit in ODI cricket and to some extent T20.

There was nothing wrong with Kohli's captaincy.What can I one expect a captain to do if he is saddled with useless players like Jadeja and Pandya. 

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

There was nothing wrong with Kohli's captaincy.What can I one expect a captain to do if he is saddled with useless players like Jadeja and Pandya. 

yes we know how you feel about Virat "D grate".  

[Texan]

On 7/15/2022 at 3:07 AM, mani sha said:

Reading sharma comments today about Kohli , it looks like God can be wrong but Kohli can’t . 
 

looking back , it seems we fans are responsible for this nonsense. We heroworshipped him in his heyday beyond reason . 
 

What can be done to actually prevent such nonsense . Do we actually have any power ? Ipl etc are ruthless with non performing assets I think . can our national team be run in similar manner ? 
 

what is it we can really do . When Kohli was kicked out of captaincy , I truly felt Rohit will get us one trophy . I had stopped watching cricket for two years . I started watching with Rohit as captain . 
 

i feel all I can do is not watch . I live in usa and I think I have to give up on the nostalgia of seeing fab five and yuvi dhoni in heyday . This nepotism , mad selection was not there for a few years . Was gonna watch the ind pak t20 in 2024 but I think with such clear bias , my money is better spent on a vacation to Disneyland rather than buying tickets to fort Lauradele 

Its the same story with every star. First Sachin, then Dhoni, now Virat. All of them were pretty useless in the last few years of their careers and should have been dropped long before they decided to quit the game. 

 

I feel so bad that despite having some candidates that could readily replace these fallen heroes, we keep picking them. I have given up watching cricket except IPL and occasional flurries of interest. We lose not because we don't have good players in India, we lose because we never pick the right players at the right time. We given elongated retirement plans to cricketers who have long lost their mojo.

 

It almost seems like BCCI is more interested in hero workship than actually winning games as India. They are too scared of any negative press if any heros are dropped. 

[Lord]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

There was nothing wrong with Kohli's captaincy.What can I one expect a captain to do if he is saddled with useless players like Jadeja and Pandya. 

 

What stopped him from dropping them if they were so useless?