Why are Indians desperate for 'Bazball' to fail?

[the don]

Indian fans arent particularly fond of England.

i actually think England are doing the game a massive favour. A team like Pakistan makes the game unwatchable even for local fans and would kill the format otherwise with the cowardly, regressive approach.

[jalebi_bhai]

40 minutes ago, Pollack said:

India plays regressive, uninspiring, defensive cricket. Indian superstar batsmen and bowlers barring one or two are all defensive and just don't have ability to play otherwise. So the toxic patriotism forces them to be critical of those who play the way that they actually want to admire but cannot since it's not their own country superstars. 

 

I think the term for this phenomenon is 'low self-esteem arrogance'. 

 

35 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Because it showcases how backdated and individual focused our own brand of cricket is.

 

This brand of aggressive cricket will not have any place for individuals reaching selfgoals at the cost of the team and superstars padding their stats. And some of us watch cricket for this very purpose. 

 

I guess India is still very much a personality driven society, and it percolates to our sporting culture as well. 

 

Bazball will have its bad days and I am also skeptical about how well it will fare in India , mainly because we are a team with serious Test pedigree at home, but as a fan of the sport, I can only cheer for this positive approach to work and for Indian cricket to adopt similar positivity in all formats. 

[jalebi_bhai]

14 minutes ago, Sandz said:

Just burying their heads in sand and hoping that bazball will fail and go away, somehow.

 

More than the fans, it should be our administrators who should be worried about this approach.

 

If England somehow manage to even draw a series in India playing this way, then I feel even the diehards will see the light.

 

India hasn't been breached in the last decade in Tests so there is still a certain arrogance in our cricket fraternity.

 

It took 96 balls for our limited overs approach to be thoroughly exposed, I don't think we're that far away from getting a similar shock in Tests soon.

[Serpico]

Every new strategy will have its skeptics. For what its worth, this approach is maximising England's potential. Whether every team needs to follow this style is a different topic.

 

Personally I feel that a champion team should be adaptable and be able to play in any style needed in the situation. So if the opponent doles out an absolute road, a great team should be ready to do what England did in last match and pummel the home team and bully them into providing a proper pitch next time. However in this match, England made things hard on themselves without any purpose. Maybe the strategy needs to evolve more, we'll see

[singhvivek141]

24 minutes ago, the don said:

Indian fans arent particularly fond of England.

i actually think England are doing the game a massive favour. A team like Pakistan makes the game unwatchable even for local fans and would kill the format otherwise with the cowardly, regressive approach.

That;s because due to their habit of whining.
Everything is fair when they prepare a lawn for subcontinent teams during their touring, but when the subcontinent teams give it back by preparing turning tracks, they start to cry like a toddler.
 

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Off late, I have come across quite a few posters on this forum as well as on social media who get gleefully excited everytime England find themselves in a difficult situation in Tests under McCullum.

 

Why are Indians so desperate for this brand of cricket to fail? 

 

 

 

Touch of arrogance is one thing like Stokes wished India had set 450 and beyond instead of 370,   declaring innings without scoring.  Especially when it comes from pommies people are likely to root against them. Problem is when India tried the same India lost. India had England's bowling at mercy in the 2nd innings of Oval test. But recklessly we imploded and set a target of 377 and unable to defend it. Ofcourse inexperienced captaincy from Bumrah played a role in it.

[nevada]

2 hours ago, jalebi_bhai said:

There is a certain section in our fanbase, whose collective backside is still sore from the t20 WC spanking, that want it to fail.

 

I agree with you. Their approach is entertaining and true to the temperament of modern day English batsmen. They don't produce many tuk tuk players anymore and so have had to adopt this approach.

I don't think so. Pretty much everyone knew we had a joke of a team and weren't going to win much in the tournament. Some things in cricket fly in the face of conventional wisdom and evoke reactions of disbelief+suspicion. Sehwag used to score big hundreds batting in cameo style and people thought his luck would run out soon but he ended up with pretty good career numbers. SKY plays in a carefree manner and Harsha keeps saying "he is in the form of his life", "he is in the midst of a purple patch", etc as he can't believe what's happening is for real. 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, MultiB48 said:

If they go 7 an over then I don't mind but don't go 4 /over and play reckless shots.Such an approach won't work long term.

 

Also people aren't appreciating their bowling,they have been bailed out by their bowlers .Even against us their bowlers did the job in the 3rd inning.

 

For a brief period it was the case with Indian team. Indian bowlers did more than just bowling. They also had to bail India out with bat.  The famous 120 all out against England would not have been possible but for our willingness to win. Oflate India's bowling has struggled to defend even big totals in 4th innings. Even guys like Alviro petersen,  Bavuma could not be dismissed. India has to regroup our bowling with new options to win more matches. That is our best way. 

[zen]

Most of those who want Eng to fail are the fans of the “seniors” who can’t bat like Eng batsmen (and probably not even good enough to get into Eng’s LOI 11). 
 

I recall 2019 WC where they were happy when Eng lost a few games. 
 

Now with the tides turned, these guys(like laggards) are now doing Eng Eng  

 

Unfortunately, these guys will find another topic that is likely to fail in the mid to long term to support. Because these guys are doomed to fail often, what they support will flicker like a dying candle giving them false impressions. Will continue to support what is going to fail till tides turn and there is no other option. Rinse and repeat. 
 

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

 

I guess India is still very much a personality driven society, and it percolates to our sporting culture as well. 

 

The key word in my sentence was " some ".  Nowadays, most younger Indians understand about Team Goals in every sphere of life.

 

But if even 10% are personality driven individuals then the total number would be high.

 

 

1 hour ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Bazball will have its bad days and I am also skeptical about how well it will fare in India , mainly because we are a team with serious Test pedigree at home, but as a fan of the sport, I can only cheer for this positive approach to work and for Indian cricket to adopt similar positivity in all formats. 

 

 

Winning consistently can happen only if a team is able to exert psychological pressure on the opposition.  

 

Some ways must be found to do it, be it hostile quick bowling, the square turning ball or scoring runs so quickly that the opposite team feels that the game is slipping away in a short time. Bazball is this 3rd approach.

 

Every approach will have good days and bad days ... but the approaches that put psychological pressure on the opposition will always have much more good days than bad and are much more likely to win the big moments and big games. 

 

A defensive and individual driven approach will fail on more occasions than not. 

 

Bazball approach will win on more occasions than not unless it comes up against a team which is putting even more psychological pressure on England like say Hostile pace bowling + Fast batting. OR the Square turning ball + Fast batting. 

 

P.S -- The Great WI Teams of 1976 to 1995 and the Australian teams of 1994 to 2015 were able to put tremendous pressure on the opposition by both Hostile Bowling and Fast Batting.   

 

The Indian Test Teams of late 2019 to mid 2021 were putting tremendous and sustained pressure on opposition batters outside Asia with 3 Quick bowlers bowling in good areas at good pace and with movement over after over after over. 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by express bowling

[Bigg Brother]

Because we deep down know England will spank us the same way they did to Pakistan at Home. They already did in 1st test at Chennai which was even before Baz took over.

 

Mostly people are waiting for Ashes to see if it is Good Approach or not. Little they know is that  Next Ashes is in England, A fit Bairstow and this guys will hammer even Australia with Bazball. 

[Tattieboy]

33 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

If they go 7 an over then I don't mind but don't go 4 /over and play reckless shots.Such an approach won't work long term.

 

Also people aren't appreciating their bowling,they have been bailed out by their bowlers .Even against us their bowlers did the job in the 3rd inning.

Why don't you like reckless shots ? ...if Brendon McCallum and Ben Stokes don't mind why should you being an Indian supporting India mind ? ..rather strange comment 

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

The key word in my sentence was " some ".  Nowadays, most younger Indians understand about Team Goals in every sphere of life.

 

But if even 10% are personality driven individuals then the total number would be high.

 

 

 

Winning consistently can happen only if a team is able to exert psychological pressure on opposition.  

 

Some ways must be found to do it, be it hostile quick bowling, the square turning ball or scoring runs so quickly that the opposite team feels that the game is slipping away in a short time. Bazball is this 3rd approach.

 

Every approach will have good days and bad days ... but the approaches that put psychological pressure on the opposition will always have much more good days than bad and are much more likely to win the big moments and big games. 

 

A defensive and individual driven approach will fail on more occasions than not. 

 

Bazball approach will win on more occasions than not unless it comes up against a team which is putting even more psychological pressure on England like say Hostile pace bowling + Fast batting. OR the Square turning ball + Fast batting. 

 

P.S -- The Great WI Teams of 1976 to 1995 and the Australian teams of 1994 to 2015 were able to put tremendous pressure on the opposition by both Hostile Bowling and Fast Batting.   

 

The Indian Test Teams of late 2019 to mid 2021 were putting tremendous and sustained pressure on opposition batters outside Asia with 3 Quick bowlers bowling in good areas at good pace and with movement over after over after over. 

 

 

 

 

This is our best option. Indian bowlers cannot bat to save their life. India's batting stops at 5 or 6. We have this Gujara who is scoring at 41 strike rate even against Bangladesh A team. Why the heck is this ancient piece is still playing with us.  We already benefitted from Pantball before Bazball. Then the mental midget KL  Rahul who is yet to have any sort of decent breakthrough Test series, Rohit is another conman who frequently goes missing even though he never had any kind of decent Test career. Just get the new bunch of Jaiswals, Sarfrazes in We can turn it around

[putrevus]

Nobody is against Bazball. It is just the hype around it which is irritating. England has been excellent and is playing a very entertaining brand of cricket.

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said:

Because we deep down know England will spank us the same way they did to Pakistan at Home. They already did in 1st test at Chennai which was even before Baz took over.

 

Mostly people are waiting for Ashes to see if it is Good Approach or not. Little they know is that  Next Ashes is in England, A fit Bairstow and this guys will hammer even Australia with Bazball. 

 

India scored faster than England in the oval test before we foolishly threw our wickets away in the 2nd innings. India scored at 4.90 even with Pujara and Vihari striking at 28 and 37.   ENgland's run rate was only 4.61. Once pitch flattened out They made mincemeat of Siraj, Thakur.

[express bowling]

30 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

This is our best option. Indian bowlers cannot bat to save their life. India's batting stops at 5 or 6. We have this Gujara who is scoring at 41 strike rate even against Bangladesh A team. Why the heck is this ancient piece is still playing with us.  We already benefitted from Pantball before Bazball. Then the mental midget KL  Rahul who is yet to have any sort of decent breakthrough Test series, Rohit is another conman who frequently goes missing even though he never had any kind of decent Test career. Just get the new bunch of Jaiswals, Sarfrazes in We can turn it around

 

 

We have a situation where not a single Indian batter averages over 50 in tests and Rahul, Vihari, Rahabe, Gill etc. are averaging in the 30s. 

 

And most Test match batters these days don't have eithe the mindset or the technique to bat for too long.

 

So, what is the best approach in such a scenario ?  To score as many runs as possible in their 50 ball to 150 ball stay at the crease. 

 

Pant has been our most impactful Test match batter in the last few years with his high SR batting approach. 

 

If we have 3 or 4 among Pant, Kishan, Hardik, Shaw and SKY in our batting lineup in tests, we will do no worse than what we are doing now in test match batting, and may do much better.in many cases.  Just 2 sheet anchors in Kohli and someone else, would be enough. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Bazball is just the rebranding of an old approach that has worked wonderfully in tests and ODIs in the last 50 years.

 

The WI of 1976 to 1995 and Australia of 1995 to 2015, two of the greatest teams in the last 50 years, have followed this approach very successfully in batting. Additionally, they had hostile bowling to add to the opposition's woes. 

 

I don't think there is much doubt regarding this approach. 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

We have a situation where not a single Indian batter averages over 50 in tests and Rahul, Vihari, Rahabe, Gill etc. are averaging in the 30s. 

 

And most Test match batters these days don't have eithe the mindset or the technique to bat for too long.

 

So, what is the best approach in such a scenario ?  To score as many runs as possible in their 50 ball to 150 ball stay at the crease. 

 

Pant has been our most impactful Test match batter in the last few years.  

 

If we have 3 or 4 among Pant, Kishan, Hardik, Shaw and SKY in our batting lineup in tests, we will do no worse than what we are doing now in test match batting, and may do much better.in many cases.  Just 2 sheet anchors in Kohli and someone else, would be enough. 

 

England's bowling on paper is ridiculously inadequate for subcontinent conditions. Root is their main spinner. Then Leach who is poor man's Ojha. Still they bowled out Pakistan 4 times. Understood it is a crap batting line up. But how do we do that?   That is where we have to focus on.  377 should have been defended by us.  No plans laid out, no preparations. If you want to play bazball cricket you should have bowling to deal with bazball cricket.  India outplayed England mostly at the oval except last day.

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

England's bowling on paper is ridiculously inadequate for subcontinent conditions. Root is their main spinner. Then Leach who is poor man's Ojha. Still they bowled out Pakistan 4 times. Understood it is a crap batting line up. But how do we do that?   That is where we have to focus on.  377 should have been defended by us.  No plans laid out, no preparations. If you want to play bazball cricket you should have bowling to deal with bazball cricket.  India outplayed England mostly at the oval except last day.

 

 

The Indian Team is lacking any backup plans from late 2021, starting WC 21.

 

Indian test match bowlers are basically quick seam bowlers, be it Bumrah, Shami or Siraj. But I see a lot of focus on trying to swing the ball from late 2021. 

 

And then we are looking lost if the ball is not swinging conventionally. This is strange as Bumrah, Shami snd Siraj's USP was ability to bowl with an older ball with negligible conventional swing.

 

This change in approach has been under Mhambrey. Our pacers need to go back to hitting the deck harder and focus on seam movement and surprise bounce like earlier. And focus on reverse swing too.

 

All our 3 test losses in 2022 were due to the inability to pick wickets with the older ball ... something which was our forte till mid 2021.

 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

The Indian Team is lacking any backup plans from late 2021, starting WC 21.

 

Indian test match bowlers are basically quick seam bowlers, be it Bumrah, Shami or Siraj. But I see a lot of focus on trying to swing the ball from late 2021. 

 

And then we are looking lost if the ball is not swinging conventionally. This is strange as Bumrah, Shami snd Siraj's USP was ability to bowl with an older ball with negligible conventional swing.

 

This change in approach has been under Mhambrey. Our pacers need to go back to hitting the deck harder and focus on seam movement and surprise bounce like earlier. And focus on reverse swing too.

 

All our 3 test losses in 2022 were due to the inability to pick wickets with the older ball ... something which was our forte till mid 2021.

 

 

THey should kick that douchebag out.  We had a perfect group of bowlers who could charge in and take the pitch out of the equation most of the time. At home Umesh and Shami impeccable. Overseas Bumrah, Shami, Briefly Ishant now Siraj. India has to find their mojo back. Let us see what happens in Bangladesh test.