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S Jaishankar - what do you think?

Texan

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Texan Mentor

Texan

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In my opinion, he is one of the best external affairs ministers that we have ever had. He is blunt, but also diplomatic all at the same time. He conveys his message across well and he has truly represented India superbly on the international front. I think he is probably among the top 2 performing ministers in the Modi cabinet (alongside Gadkari).

 

Here's a recent quote from him, which hits the nail on the head. Western democracies are so hypocritical when they call Indian conservative party as "Hindu Nationalists", while using terms like "Conservatives" for their own Christian nationalist parties. And they think it is perfectly normal to do that.

 

Quote

"They Won't Say Christian Nationalist...": S Jaishankar Jabs Foreign Media

"If you read foreign newspapers, they use words like Hindu nationalist government. In America or Europe, they won't say Christian nationalist...these adjectives are reserved for us," S Jaishankar said

 

External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar on Saturday reprimanded foreign newspapers for reserving adjectives like "Hindu nationalist" for the Indian government.

"If you read foreign newspapers, they use words like Hindu nationalist government. In America or Europe, they won't say Christian nationalist... these adjectives are reserved for us. They don't understand that this country is ready to do more with the world and not less with the world," said Jaishankar.

...

...

Full article: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/they-wont-say-christian-nationalist-government-s-jaishankar-jabs-foreign-newspapers-3732448#pfrom=home-ndtv_bigstory

 

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Lone Wolf Grand Master

Lone Wolf

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He is yet to face any sort of turbulence at this moment.  Came in at stable times.  Can't rate him that high based on that.  

But I like his thought process & clarity of thought. 

MEA I think overall can do a lot better. 

Edited by Lone Wolf
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Texan Mentor

Texan

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13 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

He is yet to face any sort of turbulence at this moment.  Came in at stable times.  Can't rate him that high based on that.  

But I like his thought process & clarity of thought. 

MEA I think overall can do a lot better. 

 

Yes, India is not facing a war front, but there have been a few incidents that he has handled superbly. When India decided to buy more Russian oil after the war, he handled the situation with Western countries and Western media very deftly such that the West does not blame India for aggravating the war and even looks up to India to help defuse the Ukraine situation. He has handled relationships with Western countries very well and also exposed their hypocrisy while doing this, which is a balancing act that other would find hard to do.

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BacktoCricaddict Grand Master

BacktoCricaddict

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Am sure he is a good FM for India, but is he correct about this particular issue?

 

First, "foreign newspaper" is not a monolith.  There's Fox and there's msnbc, and everything in between.  And am sure he is smart enough to know that.

 

Second, I did a few quick google searches (and I am sure he is smart enough to have done that, too)"

 

"Christian Nationalism CNN"

https://www.google.com/search?q=christian+nationalism+cnn&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS995US995&oq=christian+nationalism+cnn&aqs=chrome..69i57.5817j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

"Christian Nationalism NPR"

https://www.google.com/search?q=christian+nationalism+npr&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS995US995&sxsrf=AJOqlzWsr6bIAXFvAajPn9Gmz7Pnta0fsA%3A1675115878998&ei=Zj3YY7rKPLPpxgGL1Z7ABA&ved=0ahUKEwi6lbP3pPD8AhWztDEKHYuqB0gQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=christian+nationalism+npr&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzoKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzoECCMQJzoFCAAQgAQ6CAgAEBYQHhAPOgYIABAWEB46BQguEIAESgQIQRgASgQIRhgAUPPnAlid8gJgz_MCaAJwAXgAgAFjiAH0A5IBATaYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

 

"Christian Nationalism Fox"

https://www.google.com/search?q=christian+nationalism+fox&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS995US995&sxsrf=AJOqlzUnNybRn-Mrkr5KUAu-66tc9fEcCA%3A1675115938461&ei=oj3YY8HsG7CQwbkPg6yGyAI&ved=0ahUKEwjBxeCTpfD8AhUwSDABHQOWASkQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=christian+nationalism+fox&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzoHCCMQJxCRAjoFCAAQgAQ6BAgjECc6BQgAEJECOgUILhCABEoECEEYAUoECEYYAFDrA1izDWCMD2gBcAB4AIABXYgBpgWSAQE4mAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1

 

In this particular case, he is trying to play some victim card on behalf of India, and it doesn't look too good. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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mishra Mentor

mishra

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Jaishankar ji is Superhero. He should wear a mask a cape and skin hugging dress.

 

Jokes aside, he is probably only FM, who is respected by friend and foes all across the world. He puts his pov and national interest concisely unequivocally and diplomatically. He speaks and world listens.

 

Credit to Modiji for giving him free hand in foreign policy. To clarify Free hand as in Modiji and his team has allowed Super S Jaishankarji to not think about domestic elections and implications when speaking or making deals with other nations.

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mishra Mentor

mishra

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On 1/30/2023 at 10:05 PM, BacktoCricaddict said:

Am sure he is a good FM for India, but is he correct about this particular issue?

 

First, "foreign newspaper" is not a monolith.  There's Fox and there's msnbc, and everything in between.  And am sure he is smart enough to know that.

 

Second, I did a few quick google searches (and I am sure he is smart enough to have done that, too)"

 

"Christian Nationalism CNN"

https://www.google.com/search?q=christian+nationalism+cnn&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS995US995&oq=christian+nationalism+cnn&aqs=chrome..69i57.5817j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

"Christian Nationalism NPR"

https://www.google.com/search?q=christian+nationalism+npr&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS995US995&sxsrf=AJOqlzWsr6bIAXFvAajPn9Gmz7Pnta0fsA%3A1675115878998&ei=Zj3YY7rKPLPpxgGL1Z7ABA&ved=0ahUKEwi6lbP3pPD8AhWztDEKHYuqB0gQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=christian+nationalism+npr&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzoKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzoECCMQJzoFCAAQgAQ6CAgAEBYQHhAPOgYIABAWEB46BQguEIAESgQIQRgASgQIRhgAUPPnAlid8gJgz_MCaAJwAXgAgAFjiAH0A5IBATaYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

 

"Christian Nationalism Fox"

https://www.google.com/search?q=christian+nationalism+fox&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS995US995&sxsrf=AJOqlzUnNybRn-Mrkr5KUAu-66tc9fEcCA%3A1675115938461&ei=oj3YY8HsG7CQwbkPg6yGyAI&ved=0ahUKEwjBxeCTpfD8AhUwSDABHQOWASkQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=christian+nationalism+fox&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzoHCCMQJxCRAjoFCAAQgAQ6BAgjECc6BQgAEJECOgUILhCABEoECEEYAUoECEYYAFDrA1izDWCMD2gBcAB4AIABXYgBpgWSAQE4mAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1

 

In this particular case, he is trying to play some victim card on behalf of India, and it doesn't look too good. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jaishankarji is not any TDH FM to play victim card. 
 

Read his book and you will realise how clear he is. Every word he spellsout is for deeper meaning. 
 

Do you think Japanese with Samurai culture wouldn’t have been targeted by Western Press. They got over it. We will get over it.

 

Western nationalism has negative tone of being Supremacists, and may end up doing Hitler Mussolini. On contrary Hindu nationalism objetive is being  respected and treated as equal.

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BacktoCricaddict Grand Master

BacktoCricaddict

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29 minutes ago, mishra said:

Jaishankarji is not any TDH FM to play victim card. 
 

Read his book and you will realise how clear he is. Every word he spellsout is for deeper meaning. 
 

Do you think Japanese with Samurai culture wouldn’t have been targeted by Western Press. They got over it. We will get over it.

 

Western nationalism has negative tone of being Supremacists, and may end up doing Hitler Mussolini. On contrary Hindu nationalism objetive is being  respected and treated as equal.

 

Not dealing in generalities here.  Just calling him out for this one particular statement where he clubbed all Western newspapers as one unit, when clearly they are not.  Next, he says they won't use the term X-ian nationalism, which, as shown from a 2-min search, is untrue.

 

He is obviously a highly intelligent man, one whose left toe has accomplished more than I ever will.  That doesn't mean he is infallible and can't make incorrect statements.

 

PS:  BTW WTH's TDH FM?

Edited by BacktoCricaddict
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gattaca Mentor

gattaca

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On 1/30/2023 at 5:05 PM, BacktoCricaddict said:

Am sure he is a good FM for India, but is he correct about this particular issue?

 

First, "foreign newspaper" is not a monolith.  There's Fox and there's msnbc, and everything in between.  And am sure he is smart enough to know that.

 

Second, I did a few quick google searches (and I am sure he is smart enough to have done that, too)"

 

"Christian Nationalism CNN"

https://www.google.com/search?q=christian+nationalism+cnn&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS995US995&oq=christian+nationalism+cnn&aqs=chrome..69i57.5817j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

"Christian Nationalism NPR"

https://www.google.com/search?q=christian+nationalism+npr&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS995US995&sxsrf=AJOqlzWsr6bIAXFvAajPn9Gmz7Pnta0fsA%3A1675115878998&ei=Zj3YY7rKPLPpxgGL1Z7ABA&ved=0ahUKEwi6lbP3pPD8AhWztDEKHYuqB0gQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=christian+nationalism+npr&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzoKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzoECCMQJzoFCAAQgAQ6CAgAEBYQHhAPOgYIABAWEB46BQguEIAESgQIQRgASgQIRhgAUPPnAlid8gJgz_MCaAJwAXgAgAFjiAH0A5IBATaYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

 

"Christian Nationalism Fox"

https://www.google.com/search?q=christian+nationalism+fox&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS995US995&sxsrf=AJOqlzUnNybRn-Mrkr5KUAu-66tc9fEcCA%3A1675115938461&ei=oj3YY8HsG7CQwbkPg6yGyAI&ved=0ahUKEwjBxeCTpfD8AhUwSDABHQOWASkQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=christian+nationalism+fox&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzoHCCMQJxCRAjoFCAAQgAQ6BAgjECc6BQgAEJECOgUILhCABEoECEEYAUoECEYYAFDrA1izDWCMD2gBcAB4AIABXYgBpgWSAQE4mAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1

 

In this particular case, he is trying to play some victim card on behalf of India, and it doesn't look too good. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I always heard on radio or read online as white nationalists not Christian nationalists. Google is confirmation bias. White nationalists is more in use in U.S.

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BacktoCricaddict Grand Master

BacktoCricaddict

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1 hour ago, gattaca said:

I always heard on radio or read online as white nationalists not Christian nationalists. Google is confirmation bias. White nationalists is more in use in U.S.

I have heard Christian nationalism on NPR quite a bit.  The google search just confirmed what I have heard (I didn't want to rely on personal anecdotes to make this point, hence the google search).  The point is that the term "Christian nationalism" is not intentionally avoided.  

 

My bigger point was that there is no such thing as "Western newspaper."  Does anyone think Fox and NPR are colluding to avoid the use of "Christian nationalism?"  That's laughable.  NPR will collude with Indian left-wing media before they collude with Fox. 

 

If anything, SJ is deliberately feeding people's "see ... the West hates us" emotions.  Given that he ain't stupid, it's likely a clever, deliberate and tactical, albeit false, statement. 

 

 

 

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mishra Mentor

mishra

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15 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

Not dealing in generalities here.  Just calling him out for this one particular statement where he clubbed all Western newspapers as one unit, when clearly they are not.  Next, he says they won't use the term X-ian nationalism, which, as shown from a 2-min search, is untrue.

 

He is obviously a highly intelligent man, one whose left toe has accomplished more than I ever will.  That doesn't mean he is infallible and can't make incorrect statements.

 

PS:  BTW WTH's TDH FM?

You had to google the term Christian nationalism. that says a lot about how much coverage Christian nationalism get. I agree that he has made a mistake but not for the reason you are mentioning.

 

Do simple maths-
 
Search on "Christian nationalism" returns About 72,600 results (0.29 seconds) globally. ie there are around 50+ countries where 72,600 strories are divided
 

Search on "Hindu nationalism" returns About 81,600 results (0.45 seconds) and there is only one country called India on which the news stories are targetted at.

 

So ur ratio of Hindu vs Christian Nationalism will come about 500:1

 

Hope u got reasons why Indian FM has to speak up on this agenda driven targetted reporting. But he could have clarified the meaning of Hindu Survivalism in India is simply Hindus trying to heal the wounds inflicted on Indian Hindus from various invaders and colonialist for past thousand years. And West would do well if it can try atleast proper reporting of Hindus Survivalism and not equate it with thing like Nazi Musolini Nationalism

 

 

To detail, the way I see and someone like Jaishankar ji could have articulated better

1. Jewish Survivalism which west calls Nationalismeans having secure land for Jews in Israel and Israel is the land of Jews. Fact is Jewish religion and culture is under threat by years of genocide on them.

2. Hindus Survivalism which west calls nationalism is based on premise of ignoring genocide persucution, forced conversion of Hindus in their land for around thousand year and this must end. Hindu wants a revivalism (not revolution) which means a STOP to hundreds and hundreds of year persecution and unequal treatment and and restore of former socio cultural and economic glory of Bharat in India. BTW, Hindus means all path of worship which originated in Bharat (Not India).

 

 Neither of above two case means attack or conversion of people from other religion into Hindu stream. However intellectually its being debated if Sufism should be also considered as Hindu religion.

3. I can gurantee that there would have been Islamic natinalism if Arab world specially Saudi Arabia was under threat from some other religion. I would have sympathy for them.

4. Christian nationalism means something alltogether different. They have allready lost the land of Birth of Christ to Islam so they have no legs to justify Christian nationalism. So for them its eradication of people from other faith by means of conversion. Same is true for people and nations propagating Muslim Brotherhood. They simply want eradication of people from their land by means of conversion.

 

Edited by mishra
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BacktoCricaddict Grand Master

BacktoCricaddict

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12 minutes ago, mishra said:

You had to google the term Christian nationalism. that says a lot about how much coverage Christian nationalism get. I agree that he has made a mistake but not for the reason you are mentioning.

 

Do simple maths-
 
Search on "Christian nationalism" returns About 72,600 results (0.29 seconds) globally. ie there are around 50+ countries where 72,600 strories are divided
 

Search on "Hindu nationalism" returns About 81,600 results (0.45 seconds) and there is only one country called India on which the news stories are targetted at.

 

So ur ratio of Hindu vs Christian Nationalism will come about 500:1

 

Hope u got reasons why Indian FM has to speak up on this agenda driven targetted reporting. But he could have clarified the meaning of Hindu Survivalism in India is simply Hindus trying to heal the wounds inflicted on Indian Hindus from various invaders and colonialist for past thousand years. And West would do well if it can try atleast proper reporting of Hindus Survivalism and not equate it with thing like Nazi Musolini Nationalism

 

 

To detail, the way I see and someone like Jaishankar ji could have articulated better

1. Jewish Survivalism which west calls Nationalismeans having secure land for Jews in Israel and Israel is the land of Jews. Fact is Jewish religion and culture is under threat by years of genocide on them.

2. Hindus Survivalism which west calls nationalism is based on premise of ignoring genocide persucution, forced conversion of Hindus in their land for around thousand year and this must end. Hindu wants a revivalism (not revolution) which means a STOP to hundreds and hundreds of year persecution and unequal treatment and and restore of former socio cultural and economic glory of Bharat in India. BTW, Hindus means all path of worship which originated in Bharat (Not India).

 

 Neither of above two case means attack or conversion of people from other religion into Hindu stream. However intellectually its being debated if Sufism should be also considered as Hindu religion.

3. I can gurantee that there would have been Islamic natinalism if Arab world specially Saudi Arabia was under threat from some other religion. I would have sympathy for them.

4. Christian nationalism means something alltogether different. They have allready lost the land of Birth of Christ to Islam so they have no legs to justify Christian nationalism. So for them its eradication of people from other faith by means of conversion. Same is true for people and nations propagating Muslim Brotherhood. They simply want eradication of people from their land by means of conversion.

 

 

Good post. Not that I agree with everything here.  Lots to unpack!  Homework for me. 

 

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Tibarn

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I don't think there is much difference between him and Sushma Swaraj, but SJ being more eloquent in English gives him better press than SS. Modi deserves more credit for the stances India takes rather than either of those two.

 

I think there are numerous ministries which have had better/more impactful performances than the Foreign Ministry. Of the big 4 ministries, all three of Finance, Defense, and Home have been more impactful. Then there are the various ministries responsible for the increased toilet/sanitation access, electricity/water coverage, increased road/rail infrastructure, education etc; all of them have been/are in the process of becoming more impactful IMO. Jaishankar(and Gadkari for that matter) are media darlings relative to their coworkers which is why they get the good press. 

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