Which team has the edge in the WTC 2023 final?

[zen]

Australia and India will play the 2nd WTC final of the 2021-23 cycle to be held at the Oval, London, from June 7th to 11th. Both teams need not worry too much about the conditions (unless tailored towards specific skills) as they have good options for a variety of conditions. 

 

Since the mid-1990s, Aus has been the team to pose a serious challenge for most teams. Teams such as England, India, New Zealand (the winner of the inaugural WTC), South Africa, etc., have had outstanding periods but Australia has remained constant as the team to challenge esp. in a variety of conditions. Talking about Australia, it has never won the first edition of any ICC tournament but eventually, it adds the titles to its kitty. Luckily for Aus, this is the 2nd edition. 

 

India has been consistent over the first two cycles, reaching the final of both events. India too would be hoping to do better than last time. 

 

 

Below are the pros and cons of both teams: 

 

Australia

 

Australia lost the recent test series to India in India 1-2 in by and large spin-friendly conditions. It lost the last series to India in Australia 1-2 too. Therefore, the law of averages would suggest that Australia has a good chance of triumphing when it matters the most. Batsmen such as Khawaja and Head have got used to India's bowling. Labuschagne and Smith are expected to lift their games. The lower middle order can be a weakness, however, it can be compensated by the likes of Cummins if in good batting form, along with Green. Talking about Cummins, the bowling attack will need to be near its best. Lyon is experienced when it comes to making the most out of relatively unspin-friendly conditions. 

 

Probable 11 - Khawja, Warner (or a spin bowling AR with Head opening), Labuschagne, Smith, Head, Green, Carey, Cummins, Starc, Lyon, & Hazlewood.  

 

India

 

With Gill making its way in the 11, India has a settled top 4. The lower middle order could have some inexperienced players. And with Pant unavailable, the WK role needs to be optimized. India is not able to balance the batting and wicket-keeping abilities of the slot in consideration. The pace bowling attack is a plus as both Shami and Siraj have shown some good form. 

 

More or less confirmed slots:

 

The top 4 - Gill, Rohit, Pujara, & Kohli 

Spin bowling AR - Jadeja 

Pacers - Shami & Siraj 

 

Open slots:

 

#5 & WK slots = ?

3rd pacer slot = maybe the wild card Umran for pace, bounce, and movement ... or such a specialist pacer (Bumrah is unavailable). 

The final slot is expected to be a toss-up b/w a pace-bowling AR like Thakur or a spinner like Ashwin. Though having a mystery spinner like Kuldeep is not a bad idea! 

 

I won't be surprised if India fields a lineup like below: 

 

Gill

Rohit

Pujara

Kohli 

KL 

Jadeja

Bharat or Kishan as WK (unless KL is made to keep)

Thakur (could be preferred for his batting) ... or someone like Unadkat may get a shot

Ashwin (tends to squeeze in like in the 2017 CT final & 2021 WTC final) 

Shami

Siraj 

 

The above would feel like a lineup designed more to play for a draw, lacking an impactful third specialist pacer and maybe a mystery spinner. 

 

 

The thread is designed to be discussed from a relatively neutral perspective. Which team has the edge? India has never won an ICC world final against a SENA team.

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by zen

[Jamadagni]

India won against England in 2013 CT. Anyway leaving that aside, in order to win matches in SENA, the team needs to have 4 pacers. Spinners don't win **** in SENA. 

 

My ideal lineup:

 

Rohit

Gill

Pujara

Kohli

SKY (give him license like Bairstow) 

KL Rahul (pains me to include him, but alternatives are much worse) 

Jadeja

Thakur

Shami

Siraj

Umran

 

[zen]

2 hours ago, Jamadagni said:

Spinners don't win **** in SENA.

The reasoning given/used to squeeze in someone like Ashwin would be that Aus has 4-5 left-handers (Khawaja, Warner, Head, Carey, & Starc). 

 

PS if two spinners are playing, it implies that India is likely to go with a specialist WK like Bharat. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by zen

[Need4Speed]

Australia has big and thick edge haha..purely bcoz we dont have Rishabh Pant..Bumrah is out too..

else Shami Siraj in form Bumrah wud hv been excellent pace attack..

 

KL as WK may work for us batting in lower middle order..as he wont have to face new ball..

We need to persuade Pandya to play to give balance to the side..

Thakur i never liked as a player..he is an easy fodder for batsmen unless good swinging conditions and his batting is not consistent either.

 

hope Umran takes his game to the next level above and forces his inclusion in the side..we will require an impactful performance who can chaneg course of the match in a session..

 

Overall..Aussie look much balanced side and have a great edge..

[cricketfan28]

Australia, less likely to choke.

[Majestic]

Australia have a clear edge. We have no clue for like 3 spots in the XI.

 

The two Mavericks, Pant and Bumrah, are missing and that makes this team extremely vulnerable going into the WTC Final.

[jf1gp_1]

India is going to get hammered in yet another ICC final.  This thread could have 500 pages and even if team plays the same XI people on this forum want, we will still lose. Out of top 4 only 1 might score. Now add Rahul at 5 or 6 we know he will make grand total of 10 in both innings along with 3-4 drops. Bowler will help face saving with both bat and ball and final will end by 4th day or 1st session 5th day. 

 

Anyone knows above is the script of final. 

[Suhaan]

No need to play Ashwin and Jadeja together there

Jadeja pips Ashwin alone for he provides the batting cushion better than Ashwin

 

Kuldeep Yadav can be a surprise pick,if we are bold enough to even dump Jadeja there,can win you final on his own

[Number]

India will win this time. I am very hopeful.

Rahul will play as a WK bat at 6 and score a 150+. 

Siraj, Shami and Thakur will be too hot to handle for Aussies and they have a mental block against Jadeja. Oval will help spinners from day 3 so advantage to us.

[Sandeep99]

How much are we missing Pant?! Bumrah is not a world beater but he always performed against Aussies so he's a Miss as well. Ashwin is one more guy who has the edge against Aussies so he should be there. 

 

Siraj, Shami are lock ins. India needs to choose between Jadeja and Shardul but I feel Sundar is the dark horse. He's a solid batsman at 7 and can nip out a couple of top order batters. India should take the punt.

 

The top order is weak as ever. I expect Starc and Cummins to run havoc in one of the of 2 innings and reduce India to 40-50 for 5. The lower order runs are crucial as always in England.

[Sandeep99]

As much as I hate to say it, KL should be the keeper. No other option - Bharat is as useless as they come.. he's a proud successor to the likes of Ratra, deep das gupta. 

 

[Sandeep99]

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

No need to play Ashwin and Jadeja together there

Jadeja pips Ashwin alone for he provides the batting cushion better than Ashwin

 

Kuldeep Yadav can be a surprise pick,if we are bold enough to even dump Jadeja there,can win you final on his own

Oval in June is still early days in the summer. 2 spinners is an overkill. We need to play 3 proper seamers for sure.

[rollingstoned]

Unlike last time we should wait and look at the conditions leading upto the test match and then take a call on team selection/composition unlike the last time where even with 2 full days of rain we stuck to our 'all conditions team' and lost the toss to make things worse. Early June is a time when you can expect a lot of seam movement/ swing in the air regardless of the venue.

Edited March 19, 2023 by rollingstoned

[Trichromatic]

KL Rahul scored 149 at Oval once.

[Adamant]

Gill

Rohit

Pujara (won't do much) 

Kohli

Sarfaraz Khan

Kl Rahul

Jadeja

Thalur

Umesh

Shami

Siraj

 

This would be my lineup. 

 

1 spin allrounder, 3 full time pacers and one medium fast option who has a very good record in England. 

 

 

Australia will probably go with Cummins + Hazelwood + Starc + Green + Lyon. 

 

Australian bowling lineup looks better especially due to absence of Bumrah

 

[Adamant]

Also let's just not fall into the Ashwin trap this time. 

 

He can't win a match on his own in England so let's not make a place for him just bcoz Oval may assist spin on the last day.

[Lord]

19 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Also let's just not fall into the Ashwin trap this time. 

 

He can't win a match on his own in England so let's not make a place for him just bcoz Oval may assist spin on the last day.

 

Thakur has regressed too though. Ash has done well in England and v Aus even in Aus in last to tours

[AuxiliA]

5 hours ago, Suhaan said:

No need to play Ashwin and Jadeja together there

Jadeja pips Ashwin alone for he provides the batting cushion better than Ashwin

 

Kuldeep Yadav can be a surprise pick,if we are bold enough to even dump Jadeja there,can win you final on his own

 

Pick your 4 best bowlers for Oval conditions and your best batting AR. That's the way to go.

 

Jadeja is the best batting AR we have in tests right now. He scored a century in England last time and has great record vs Aus both home & away. 

 

Now Oval is one of the most spin friendly grounds in ENG. We relatively have a good record there. Is dropping our best spinner Ashwin for Thakur a good move? Ashwin can bat as well as Thakur can. 

 

 

Anyways this would be my team:

 

Rohit 

Gill 

Pujara 

Kohli 

Iyer 

Rahul(wk)

Jadeja 

Ashwin 

Umesh/Unadkat 

Shami 

Siraj 

 

Thakur over Ashwin only if it's a green mamba.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by AuxiliA

[Norman]

We must have 2-3 wild cards to have any chance. We aren't winning **** with the usual washed up boring XIs. 

 

Mine would be Jaiswal, Kishan and Kuldeep. Also...Gill will be ruined by Hazlewood and Cummins with the new ball so itd be better if he plays in Iyer's place. Would have been fantastic if Pandya was available.. would have given a home like depth to the team. Thakur is a genuine hit or miss in all departments. I hope we unearth a pace bowling all rounder in the IPL or somewhere to cover that no.8 spot. Maybe Shivam Mavi? 

 

Rohit (C)

Jaiswal

Pujara

Kohli

Gill

Jadeja

Kishan (wk)

Thakur/Mavi 

Shami

Umesh

Siraj

[Adamant]

35 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Thakur has regressed too though. Ash has done well in England and v Aus even in Aus in last to tours

Ashwin didn't play in the last England tour, also he failed in SA. 

He can't win a match, he would at max take 2 wickets, on the other hand a pacer can do much more damage. 

 

He wouldn't do much here, so it will be much better if we go with a wicket taking pacer ahead of hi.