The middle order conundrum which costed us 2019, remains as it is

[Number]

In 2019 world cup we had the most fearsome top 3. 

Somewhat dependable lower order with MS and Pandya who could hit out at times. 

And a solid bowling unit with Bumrah, Shami and red hot KulCha.

These strengths made us overlook our weakness at no. 4/5 and ultimately the day came when top order perished early in a knock out game and we had no answers.

 

4 years after that and the options we have built are equally unreliable. 

 

SKY can't play 1 mm movement. Never seen him even trying to get through the tough passes of play the most essential attribute of odi batsmen.

Not his fault but his game is more suited to hit across the line of the ball. 

 

Iyer is another unreliable option with dodgy technique against pace. Yes, he may do well against spin but I don't think teams will feed him spin with such an obvious weakness.

 

KL might do well here and there but I won't bet a penny on him under a tight chase or a big game.

 

The world cup is months away and I don't think they will even try to solve this problem now. 3 months will go in IPL and its hangover and the TM will just go with the flow.

To summarise - we are screwed so lets keep reminding ourselves the golden words of Rahul Dravid - lower your expectations.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Number

[vvvslaxman]

That is because we still play the same more or less. KL Rahul/Pandya. Pant one guy that evoloved won't play. Apart from Iyer/GIll this is pretty much the same line up with lesser form of top order.

 

Pandya

Jadeja

Kohli

Rohit

KL Rahul

 

Even in bowling

 

Shami/Kuldeep minus Bumrah. 

[vvvslaxman]

Adding Vijay shankar and DK to this line up will confirm the humiliating exit at the hands of a SENA team. Either Santner/Sodhi will roll us over. Or Buttler/Bairstow will bulldoze us. or Starc will run through us.

[Ajju]

We should try Manish pandey

excellent fielder and good batsman play all 50 overs

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Ajju said:

We should try Manish pandey

excellent fielder and good batsman play all 50 overs

 

How about MSD lol

[AKane]

24 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Adding Vijay shankar and DK to this line up will confirm the humiliating exit at the hands of a SENA team. Either Santner/Sodhi will roll us over. Or Buttler/Bairstow will bulldoze us. or Starc will run through us.

 

The tournament is also Oct/Nov just after the rains which these days last until Sept/Oct.... the pitches can have some movement in them. Making the typical dust bowl pitches will be difficult.

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

How about MSD lol

 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Lord said:

 

 

Among the current line up only guy who guy has shown consistency and building ability is Shreyas Iyer. But post injury he is not the same.  After all it is a team game. If you have 4 or 5 inform batsmen in your top 7 you can hope a couple of them stepping up when others fail. Right now Gill is the only one who is in form. Rest are living on borrowed time. Just produces flash in the pan performance. Relying on Axar even in ODI is frankly embarrassing.  In the last match Jaddu put his hand up.

[zen]

On good batting wickets, most batsmen will do well. The guys in the top order (#1-3) would make the most of the opportunities (settling down and scoring runs). While others may not even get to bat much (or come in to swing their bats). 

 

On difficult batting wickets, almost everyone will find it tough. If the top order (#1-3) fails, the MO, which does not get to bat as often as the top order (#1-3) in a series/tournament, gets exposed. And because the conditions are harsh, where even those who play more balls (#1-3) in a series/tournament fail, many of these guys in MO, some of them could have hardly batted for long in a series/tournament, will find it difficult too (cannot expect them to bat as if the pitch is flat. It is not like if the guy in the top order scored a 100 on a flat pitch, the guy in the middle order will do similar on a difficult pitch. Occasionally, such a performance can come). 

 

This is why teams like Eng have batting till #9-10. In good batting conditions, it encourages batsmen to play free-flowing cricket (no stats padding like Ind's #1-3) and on difficult batting wickets, the batting has depth even in the tail. 

 

It is also a good idea to rotate players where guys playing lower down are encouraged to play in the top order as well in a series so everyone has had opportunities to feel settled/well-oiled. Or one has to hope that the top-order collapses in good batting conditions (and not in difficult ones like they tend to), where the middle-order can get more opportunities to play long innings. 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by zen

[Majestic]

Atleast Iyer and KL are upgrade over Rayudu and Jadhav. But not sure if Pandya has shown any upgrade from 2019 to 2023. He still performs one in 10 matches.

 

Top order has been past their best too. Rohit isn't the same, will hit an odd hundred in the World Cup and Kohli will also do the same. But their performance will not take us too far.

[Insidious]

I would suggest to pick Axar Patel in place of SKY at No.4. we have to break the chain. Top 5-6 batsman all right hander not helping the cause at all. 

[Majestic]

2 minutes ago, Insidious said:

I would suggest to pick Axar Patel in place of SKY at No.4. we have to break the chain. Top 5-6 batsman all right hander not helping the cause at all. 

Jadeja at 4.

KL 5

SKY 6

Pandya 7

Axar 8

 

Next match.

[Vijy]

19 minutes ago, Insidious said:

I would suggest to pick Axar Patel in place of SKY at No.4. we have to break the chain. Top 5-6 batsman all right hander not helping the cause at all. 

I don't think it makes much diff... they can't handle lefties with juice in the pitch

[Insidious]

19 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Jadeja at 4.

KL 5

SKY 6

Pandya 7

Axar 8

 

Next match.

Axar Patel is clearly the best batsman in the side at the moment and he is playing way too low. He is better than Jadeja IMO as a batsman and hence, should bat at No 4

[Vijy]

I hope trent boult can somehow play in ODI WC. I want every team to field some lefties against us, and hopefully the pitches have some juice as well. Jansen (SA), Boult (NZ), Afridi (Pak), Starc (Aus) can all pose issues to top order if pitches have something in them. likes of david willey/reece topless (Eng) and Fizz (Bangla) are not bad as well

[Majestic]

2 hours ago, Insidious said:

Axar Patel is clearly the best batsman in the side at the moment and he is playing way too low. He is better than Jadeja IMO as a batsman and hence, should bat at No 4

Batting at 4 and 8 are two different things. Axar comes up with different mindset when batting at 8. If he is told to bat at 4, his mindset will change and he will struggle to play any effective knock.

 

Jadeja is a superior batsman to him and while he will also not find it easy, he may play occasional effective knock( Carey types).

 

Ultimately if Iyer is fit, he will most likely play and tbh I think he is the best option we have at that spot for Indian conditions.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Majestic

[Jamadagni]

You cannot win tournaments with Rahul and Iyer types. You just cannot have both of them. Fkck stats. Those are for dumbfkcks. Have seen enough of those "stats" in the last decade and how they translated. Both Iyer and Rahul have too many weaknesses even on flat tracks. You have to keep giving chances to SKY and hope he delivers. He is most important to us in the lower-middle order. 

 

Rohit

Gill

Kohli

Pandya

Rahul

SKY

Jadeja

Axar

Kuldeep

Siraj

Bumrah

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Jamadagni

[deepdynamo]

One thing I definitely like is put Jadeja at No. 4 considering he is more of a batting allrounder in ODI cricket.

Also, I quite like the composition of our Top 7 in ODI cricket now than in 2019.

Rohit
Gill
Kohli

Jadeja
Rahul

Iyer/Sky
Pandya

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, deepdynamo said:

One thing I definitely like is put Jadeja at No. 4 considering he is more of a batting allrounder in ODI cricket.

Also, I quite like the composition of our Top 7 in ODI cricket now than in 2019.

Rohit
Gill
Kohli

Jadeja
Rahul

Iyer/Sky
Pandya

 

Biggest problem with that strategy is when we play a match on absolute road where you have to go after the bowling entire 50 overs ATleast most of it. We make a miscalculation and we end up putting up a smaller total. Entire top 7 have to have multiple gears. Gambhir/Sehwag/Tendulkar/Kohli/Yuvraj/Dhoni/Raina all of them had multiple gears. So if they identify a pitch is a belter they can instantly switch gear and go after the bowling. Current line up does not have such players. 

[deepdynamo]

13 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Biggest problem with that strategy is when we play a match on absolute road where you have to go after the bowling entire 50 overs ATleast most of it. We make a miscalculation and we end up putting up a smaller total. Entire top 7 have to have multiple gears. Gambhir/Sehwag/Tendulkar/Kohli/Yuvraj/Dhoni/Raina all of them had multiple gears. So if they identify a pitch is a belter they can instantly switch gear and go after the bowling. Current line up does not have such players. 

Yes true but no team can take us lightly if Sky and Pandya are coming at No. 6 and No.7 ( provided the top 5 has given us good start).

Also, SKY can be given a role of a finisher ( where he is most comfortable) rather than testing him out at No. 4.

We can try this strategy in next match.