Giving Umran the new ball in ODIs?

[Texan]

It seems like all captains (whether at Ranji level, IPL level or international level) are reluctant to give the new ball to Umran. Why don't we try it? We need to try different combinations before the World Cup and it would be a good idea IMO to replace Shami with Umran and give Umran the new ball in the 3rd ODI v/s Aus. 

 

Thoughts?

[zen]

A new ball is usually given to swing bowlers. If Umran gets the new ball, the swing bowlers in the lineup do not get optimized. 

 

And Umran is said to have better control with a relatively old ball (not sure where he currently stands with the development of his game bowling with the new ball to quality batsmen). 

Edited March 20, 2023 by zen

[AKane]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

A new ball is usually given to swing bowlers. If Umran gets the new ball, the swing bowlers in the lineup do not get optimized. 

 

And Umran is said to have better control with a relatively old ball (not sure if he has developed this aspect of his game). 

 

Basically any - any reason is used to marginalize fast bowlers in India.

 

Meanwhile the 10 wicket defeats pile on for the favored ones....

[zen]

1 minute ago, AKane said:

 

Basically any - any reason is used to marginalize fast bowlers in India.

 

Meanwhile the 10 wicket defeats pile on for the favored ones....

 

Talented fast bowlers would be marginalized if they are not given opportunities. India should give Umran opportunities.

 

However, bowling bowlers in phases where they and the team are more optimized is not marginalising them. 

[Lord]

He's not a swing bowler.Can be very tough if you can't control new ball

[Sooda]

27 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

Basically any - any reason is used to marginalize fast bowlers in India.

 

 

I dont think this is accurate tbh: Umran has been fast tracked into international cricket on the back of one (?) IPL, played A team FC despite little FC experience , ahead of seasoned performers. 

Kuldeep Sen, Yash Dayal, Prasidh Krishna would all be playing LOIs if fit. Even Kartik Tyagi played for India A vs Australia despite no FC experience.

To begin with its not like we have a huge pool of even fast medium guys to choose from , on top of that this idea that Indian selectors always opt for "trundlers" ahead of those quicker bowlers is not quite true IMO.

[AKane]

All right - you all are right.... optimize the medium pacers - bowl fast bowlers later.

 

Just make sure your medium pacers don't give up the team total before the fast bowlers get a chance - without a single wicket claimed. Has happened 3 times - twice in semifinals and yesterday.

 

I remember the optimized Bhuvaneshwar first over versus Pakistan....

[Texan]

Well, to the argument that he is not a swing bowler, Shami is not a swing bowler either. But he does get to take the new ball. My argument is that before we finalize our bowling structure for the World Cup, it is worth a shot giving Umran the new ball in a couple of games. At least, we will know whether it is a viable option. With Shami, we already know what to expect.

[zen]

Umran could be brought in place of Thakur (who played the 1st ODI) or one of the spinners (3 spinners played in the 2nd ODI w/ Thakur benched) as the 3rd pacer for a combination such as Shami + Siraj + Umran + SDP as pace options + spinners 

 

Not sure if he will replace either Shami or Siraj (unless one of them needs rest or has a niggle) 

Edited March 20, 2023 by zen

[Vijy]

Ummi is best suited as MO enforcer. likes of lockie, plunkett, etc have executed that role well, even though plunkers is a trundler.

[shychipmunk]

At least play him in 11 first!

 

[Sandeep99]

He's not going to be in the squad, just leave it 

[nitinbwj]

They will play unkil Shami who will get smashed 

[Texan]

I hope the bozos in our TM get some sense and pick him in the team at least.

[Need4Speed]

Ishant isvasking to bowl at pace:

 

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/whats-the-use-of-bowling-that-fast-if-ishant-sharmas-big-take-on-umran-malik-3877356/amp/1

[MK55]

Gotta give him confidence first. Right now he’s not even considered for selection. 

And why not? Brett Lee used to take the new ball and was quite successful. Worth trying at some point for sure. 

Successful new ball bowlers aren’t simply ones who swing the ball at 125-135 kmh. They can also be guys that seam the ball. And when the ball is new and at the hardest, those guys can become even more threatening. 

But it’s a process. There’s so much pressure on him, people are just waiting for opportunity to pounce on him. Giving the new ball in such an environment will backfire. The think tank and the culture does not support such forward thinking especially when it comes to fast bowling in this country.

[MK55]

41 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

Ishant isvasking to bowl at pace:

 

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/whats-the-use-of-bowling-that-fast-if-ishant-sharmas-big-take-on-umran-malik-3877356/amp/1

Contrasting view. I heard uncle Shami always advises him to focus on ‘line and length’ first :)

 

[Mosher]

56 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

Ishant isvasking to bowl at pace:

 

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/whats-the-use-of-bowling-that-fast-if-ishant-sharmas-big-take-on-umran-malik-3877356/amp/1

Refreshing to hear this instead of line and length ****. But don't think current coach and captain encourage him to bowl as quick as he can. 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Need4Speed said:

Ishant isvasking to bowl at pace:

 

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/whats-the-use-of-bowling-that-fast-if-ishant-sharmas-big-take-on-umran-malik-3877356/amp/1

First line of the article

Umran Malik has often been wayward with his line and length. His economy in ODIs is 6.45 RPO while in T20Is it's 10.48.
 

 

[Mariyam]

New ball?

 

They have to pick Umran for that