Why does the Indian team lineup seem unsettled every WC cycle?

[Nikhil_cric]

Dismantle BCCI. We can't do worse

[Norman]

On 7/31/2023 at 9:27 PM, Lord said:

 

That is not wrong. We need atleast 6 bowling options.

 

On 7/31/2023 at 10:25 PM, putrevus said:

You need 6 bowling options these days. 

 

Not when 4 of them are absolute mugs with the bat. 6 man bowling attack works only if we go with the likes of Axar, Thakur, D chahar etc until no.9. But that will bring down the bowling quality massively...

 

So to strike that balance, we need to go with 5 bowlers with one capable part timer in the top order who can cover for the 5th bowler quota. We played with just 4 specialist bowlers in the 2011 wc and Yuvi/Raina were the 5th bowler.

[Norman]

One thing is for certain.

 

We cannot play both Pandya and Jadeja in the playing XI in 50 over cricket unless -

 

1. One plays at no.8 with an additional batter above him

 

2. We play a bat deep XI with the likes of Axar, Sundar and Thakur playing below from 8-10 (highly unlikely)

 

3. One or both of them suddenly pick up batting form and start playing the finisher role to perfection while also consolidating in the middle overs. 

[Frustrated]

In the 2019 WC, only the no.4 slot was a headache.   In 2023 WC, the entire Indian cricket team is a headache.   

[putrevus]

8 hours ago, Norman said:

 

 

Not when 4 of them are absolute mugs with the bat. 6 man bowling attack works only if we go with the likes of Axar, Thakur, D chahar etc until no.9. But that will bring down the bowling quality massively...

 

So to strike that balance, we need to go with 5 bowlers with one capable part timer in the top order who can cover for the 5th bowler quota. We played with just 4 specialist bowlers in the 2011 wc and Yuvi/Raina were the 5th bowler.

2011 field restrictions were different and they did not have two white balls then. So let us assume we have same team now . Yuvi cannot be your 5th bowler these days.

 

It is easy to say we need to get bowlers who can bat but finding them is hard.

 
We have been trying to fit a square peg in round hole in last 10 years.

 

[Vijy]

good thing is that some of the upcoming players are ARs or can do a bit of two skills: rana, sindhu, bawa, jaiswal, tilak, hangu, paan parag, etc

 

but most are not encouraged to develop 2nd skill, and of course, among the above list, only a few will make it to int'l level

[Nikhil_cric]

8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

2011 field restrictions were different and they did not have two white balls then. So let us assume we have same team now . Yuvi cannot be your 5th bowler these days.

 

It is easy to say we need to get bowlers who can bat but finding them is hard.

 
We have been trying to fit a square peg in round hole in last 10 years.

 

Lol. Only we find it hard. Markram for SA. Bracewell and Rachin for NZ. Root, Livingston for England. Salman and Iftikhar for Pakistan. Maxwell for Australia. 

 

Are these teams not limited by w new ball rule?

 

You need variety and depth to win LOI tournaments.  

 

Strong LOI squads have, for a few years now,  selected bowling attacks with plenty of variety so that they won't be lined up and hit. 

 

 

If all were fit, you can bet your bottom dollar that NZ will play

 

6. Bracewell

7. Neesham/Santner (depending on pitch)

8. Sodhi - legspinner

9. Henry( stock right arm seamer)

10. Boult - left arm swing bowler

11.  Jamieson - high release hit the deck bowler

12. Milne/Lockie - high pace option on a conducive wicket  

 

They'll have 6,7 different types of bowlers in a squad without really compromising on batting depth. 

 

And no, they didn't all start out as multi skilled cricketers.  

 

Bracewell only started bowling after the NZ coach got in touch with his domestic and asked to develop his bowling and ensure he bowls his full quota because NZ needed a finisher who could be 6th bowling option as well. 

 

He was well into his 20's. 

 

 

[cowboysfan]

IPL is the reason.without it we can manage the workload and ensure most of the WC hopefuls stay healthy but now we are getting major injuries on our national team every IPL and we cannot afford it when we havent blooded proper replacements for them.

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Lol. Only we find it hard. Markram for SA. Bracewell and Rachin for NZ. Root, Livingston for England. Salman and Iftikhar for Pakistan. Maxwell for Australia. 

 

Are these teams not limited by w new ball rule?

 

You need variety and depth to win LOI tournaments.  

 

Strong LOI squads have, for a few years now,  selected bowling attacks with plenty of variety so that they won't be lined up and hit. 

 

 

If all were fit, you can bet your bottom dollar that NZ will play

 

6. Bracewell

7. Neesham/Santner (depending on pitch)

8. Sodhi - legspinner

9. Henry( stock right arm seamer)

10. Boult - left arm swing bowler

11.  Jamieson - high release hit the deck bowler

12. Milne/Lockie - high pace option on a conducive wicket  

 

They'll have 6,7 different types of bowlers in a squad without really compromising on batting depth. 

 

And no, they didn't all start out as multi skilled cricketers.  

 

Bracewell only started bowling after the NZ coach got in touch with his domestic and asked to develop his bowling and ensure he bowls his full quota because NZ needed a finisher who could be 6th bowling option as well. 

 

He was well into his 20's. 

 

 

nearly all teams have multi-dim players. you also forgot to mention D. da silva for SL, and wanindu can bat for them

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

 

Whether it's politics or sport, we can be certain of one singular certainty in life. Indians residing abroad - and they are thankful for it - should never be allowed to hold an opinion on matters affecting/concerning India/Indians.

 

I mean, they are not even wrong. They are plain ridiculous. Why can they not watch baseball/gayball whatever?

most do. they rapidly "integrate" into society (e.g., in US) and watch american football, basketball, baseball, etc. few indians living in US that I know actually follow cricket anymore, among the younger immigrants

[Vijy]

9 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

I am glad to hear that and frankly, in my family/friends circle, I do see evidence of the same. Imagine being in US, the overlords of franchise sport and unfettered capitalism that allowed them to move their mediocre selves to that continent - and still rail against IPL. Breathtaking.

yes, double standards at play.

[jf1gp_1]

Lot of time an energy was spent on Iyer, he is out injured. Then Pant who was a certainty this WC is also out. While i personally dont agree with him playing as keeper/batsman at 4 or 5 but Rahul is also out. Ishan and gill both have been pushed into playing XI post pant was gone. Now they are trying samson as we need a no 4.  So cant completely blame bcci for unsettled indian team. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by jf1gp_1

[Lord]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:52 AM, Norman said:

 

 

Not when 4 of them are absolute mugs with the bat. 6 man bowling attack works only if we go with the likes of Axar, Thakur, D chahar etc until no.9. But that will bring down the bowling quality massively...

 

So to strike that balance, we need to go with 5 bowlers with one capable part timer in the top order who can cover for the 5th bowler quota. We played with just 4 specialist bowlers in the 2011 wc and Yuvi/Raina were the 5th bowler.

 

We haven't found any in last 10 years.  Hence Pandya is that option.

 

We don't need batting strength at no.9. Good as a bonus, but first requirement is to be a wicket taking bowler.

 

If no. 9 is batting regularly, that just means top order needs to be replaced.

[putrevus]

20 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Lol. Only we find it hard. Markram for SA. Bracewell and Rachin for NZ. Root, Livingston for England. Salman and Iftikhar for Pakistan. Maxwell for Australia. 

 

Are these teams not limited by w new ball rule?

 

You need variety and depth to win LOI tournaments.  

 

Strong LOI squads have, for a few years now,  selected bowling attacks with plenty of variety so that they won't be lined up and hit. 

 

 

If all were fit, you can bet your bottom dollar that NZ will play

 

6. Bracewell

7. Neesham/Santner (depending on pitch)

8. Sodhi - legspinner

9. Henry( stock right arm seamer)

10. Boult - left arm swing bowler

11.  Jamieson - high release hit the deck bowler

12. Milne/Lockie - high pace option on a conducive wicket  

 

They'll have 6,7 different types of bowlers in a squad without really compromising on batting depth. 

 

And no, they didn't all start out as multi skilled cricketers.  

 

Bracewell only started bowling after the NZ coach got in touch with his domestic and asked to develop his bowling and ensure he bowls his full quota because NZ needed a finisher who could be 6th bowling option as well. 

 

He was well into his 20's. 

 

 

What is your point? 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

19 hours ago, cowboysfan said:

IPL is the reason.without it we can manage the workload and ensure most of the WC hopefuls stay healthy but now we are getting major injuries on our national team every IPL and we cannot afford it when we havent blooded proper replacements for them.

I saw the interview of Virender Sehwag, he blamed too much gymming and weight lifting as cause of these injuries.

His point is simple, many of the injuries are happening not during the match but outside of the ground, specially in gym.

Gym helps in strengthening the body, but it also makes the muscle stiff thereby increasing the chances of injury.

[singhvivek141]

20 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Lol. Only we find it hard. Markram for SA. Bracewell and Rachin for NZ. Root, Livingston for England. Salman and Iftikhar for Pakistan. Maxwell for Australia. 

 

Are these teams not limited by w new ball rule?

 

You need variety and depth to win LOI tournaments.  

 

Strong LOI squads have, for a few years now,  selected bowling attacks with plenty of variety so that they won't be lined up and hit. 

 

 

If all were fit, you can bet your bottom dollar that NZ will play

 

6. Bracewell

7. Neesham/Santner (depending on pitch)

8. Sodhi - legspinner

9. Henry( stock right arm seamer)

10. Boult - left arm swing bowler

11.  Jamieson - high release hit the deck bowler

12. Milne/Lockie - high pace option on a conducive wicket  

 

They'll have 6,7 different types of bowlers in a squad without really compromising on batting depth. 

 

And no, they didn't all start out as multi skilled cricketers.  

 

Bracewell only started bowling after the NZ coach got in touch with his domestic and asked to develop his bowling and ensure he bowls his full quota because NZ needed a finisher who could be 6th bowling option as well. 

 

He was well into his 20's. 

 

 

It's lazyness, nothing else.

Yashasvi Jaiswal, Rohit Sharma all used to bowl in their U-19 days. Jaiswal isn't bowling anymore.

Abhishek Sharma stopped bowling and now his bowling has regressed, Abdul Samad stopped bowling, Venkatesh Iyer, Vijay Shankar, Shivam Dube...they're hardly bowling these days, on top of that this doofus rule of power player in IPL which is now creeping up in SMAT as well.

 

Bowling allrounders might still find a way to survive. But batting allrounders are now an endangered species.

 

[Lord]

14 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

It's lazyness, nothing else.

Yashasvi Jaiswal, Rohit Sharma all used to bowl in their U-19 days. Jaiswal isn't bowling anymore.

Abhishek Sharma stopped bowling and now his bowling has regressed, Abdul Samad stopped bowling, Venkatesh Iyer, Vijay Shankar, Shivam Dube...they're hardly bowling these days, on top of that this doofus rule of power player in IPL which is now creeping up in SMAT as well.

 

Bowling allrounders might still find a way to survive. But batting allrounders are now an endangered species.

 

 

 

Abhishek bowled in recent Emerging Asia Cup.

[singhvivek141]

10 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Abhishek bowled in recent Emerging Asia Cup.

Yes, he stopped for an year...then he bowled consistently in last year's SMAT and VHT. They he stopped bowling in Ranji and IPL...now again started.

[cowboysfan]

19 hours ago, Vijy said:

yes, double standards at play.

no it isnt.Cricket is now unique where national and IPL interests are almost diametrically opposed.I understand the understand the ship has  sailed but as long India plays international cricket we need to makesurethe players selected are not  worn out by playing non stop ricket for 2 months...

[putrevus]

52 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

It's lazyness, nothing else.

Yashasvi Jaiswal, Rohit Sharma all used to bowl in their U-19 days. Jaiswal isn't bowling anymore.

Abhishek Sharma stopped bowling and now his bowling has regressed, Abdul Samad stopped bowling, Venkatesh Iyer, Vijay Shankar, Shivam Dube...they're hardly bowling these days, on top of that this doofus rule of power player in IPL which is now creeping up in SMAT as well.

 

Bowling allrounders might still find a way to survive. But batting allrounders are now an endangered species.

 

 

The power player will kill allrounders in this country.There is no incentive to be an allrounder anymore.