Will the NRIs now return to India? Since India is moving towards 'Akhand Bharat'.

[MechEng]

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Thanks for the kind words in your earlier post.

 

Its a complicated topic, and its not just macro-economic or social parameters that decide where we decide to stay or if we decide to emigrate. 

 

I can give you my example. I am the youngest of three, and during my childhood I was the least closest to my parents among us kids. Both my elder siblings stay out of India. My brother left for his UG and has never considered a return to India. He prefers life in the US. My sister left later, but she has also been out of the country for a decade+. Of course they visit regularly, but it isn't the same. I used to work with a Law firm and was earmarked for an accelerated career growth trajectory that involved me shifting to our Singapore office. Its what I wanted to do. Almost everyone on my mother's side works in the legal field.

My father was counting on help form my brother in running his businesses here. He never got that help. My father also developed some debilitating health issues which meant that he couldn't work as much and had to have limited time sitting in front of a screen/ on the phone. I have been working with him/ trying to run the show for the last 9-10 years in areas that do not interest me in the least: Ancillary Auto production, weld testing equipment and a distribution business of dry fruits.

If I had a chance to go back in time and re evaluate my options; I would still pick this. I just want to be around my parents in their old age.

Having lived (rather toured) various parts of the US and many other places, I think India is the best place to raise a kid. I wouldn't want to raise my daughter in the US. I may still agree to raise her in the UAE, that's where my sister is, but the place is very sanitised. You don't develop any street smarts if you grow up there.

 

In the end, a Ram Mandir, a Sub prime crisis, a paradigm shift in the way a society thinks do not mean much when you decide to move: your career, proximity to your loved ones, school/friends circle for your kids means everything.

 

 

 

 

 

As usual, a well balanced answer, family > religion and nation. You don't feel the need to flaunt the emerald green like the bhagwa idiots here.

 

However, I disagree with your point on India being a good place to raise kids. Sure, USA has major issues but I get depressed when some of my family friends forward me resumes to speak to my company HR for finding an entry level job for 22-23 year olds, nothing wrong with their resumes they just don't have work experience (and duh, you need work first to get work ex.). India is a hellhole for the middle-class.

[Mariyam]

12 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

As usual, a well balanced answer, family > religion and nation. You don't feel the need to flaunt the emerald green like the bhagwa idiots here.

 

However, I disagree with your point on India being a good place to raise kids. Sure, USA has major issues but I get depressed when some of my family friends forward me resumes to speak to my company HR for finding an entry level job for 22-23 year olds, nothing wrong with their resumes they just don't have work experience (and duh, you need work first to get work ex.). India is a hellhole for the middle-class.

India has managed to put a lot of people into the middle class over the last few decades. Credit where due.

Can you further expand on your point of India being a hell hole for the middle class? It can only be better now, than say it was in the 60s or 70s?

Is getting a job for a fresher that difficult? With start ups popping all over the place, entry level jobs are fairly easy to find. Perhaps for specialized or core jobs the fight is tougher.

Anecdotal, but I know many cases where fresh grads work multiple jobs or free lance at multiple workplaces, under the aegis of the work from home (WFH) system. Windfall gain of Covid . Compare that to the stories I hear of the 70s and 80s where jobs were scarce and working age people whiled away time playing carrom sipping tea and scouring newspapers for any openings.

[Mariyam]

55 minutes ago, mishra said:

Second, Very well put about growing children in INdia. We have discussed it many times among our friend circle

 

And what has been the outcome of this discussion? It is an interesting topic.

 

For example, is it fair to a teenage kid if his/her parents want to return to India and he/she is uprooted from his entire friends circle?

 

@MechEng Why do you say that raising kids in India is not a good idea? 

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, cowboysfan said:

someone put up a map of Akhand BHARAT please.I did move back but not because i was hoping for Akhand Bharat.

I don’t know about Akhand Bharat, but definitely know that Akhand is the sore ass of the OP jo sulag rahi sadak ke traffic mein phanse kahin India ke kone mein. 

[coffee_rules]

18 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

And what has been the outcome of this discussion? It is an interesting topic.

 

For example, is it fair to a teenage kid if his/her parents want to return to India and he/she is uprooted from his entire friends circle?

 

 

Friends circle is not a major concern , but having grown up in the west, they will be finding it hard to survive without street-smartness. They will get killed in the competition . Desh ke bacche kaccha kha jayenge inko. It solely depends on how the kid can cope. Pros will be growing up around a larger family circle and get a better support system 

Edited January 25 by coffee_rules

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

41 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

As usual, a well balanced answer, family > religion and nation. You don't feel the need to flaunt the emerald green like the bhagwa idiots here.

 

However, I disagree with your point on India being a good place to raise kids. Sure, USA has major issues but I get depressed when some of my family friends forward me resumes to speak to my company HR for finding an entry level job for 22-23 year olds, nothing wrong with their resumes they just don't have work experience (and duh, you need work first to get work ex.). India is a hellhole for the middle-class.

India is the best place to raise kids..there shouldn't be any doubt about that..interactions, pressure, evening plays, competitions, street smartness much better in schools in India. My belief is even grad is better in India if kid has a foreign passport. Post grad is better abroad

[randomGuy]

Dear Mech Engineer, You seem to have taken it personally my friend. For a moment, think about it keeping aside the personal attacks on you (which you have yourself invited imho).

 

Why Mandir politics is important 1. To build temples in places of importance for Hindus , Ayodhya, Kashi, Mathura. Where mosques were built over the temples.

 

2. Hindus have a tendency to get divided on  caste. Defeating Islamist forces is paramount for the world including for the right thinking Muslims of India(I came across ex Muslim streams on YouTube, actually made me compassionate for muslims) Mandir issue unites Hindus who otherwise could be divided on old pension restoration, caste, region etc.

 

 Other points 

3. Mandir and development, and pollution control are not mutually exclusive. The government has done well on growth front. Plenty of work to be done in many areas.

 

4. I remember Charlie Munger or Warren Buffett saying a common man of today is better off than kings of yesteryears. Such is the level of resources, knowledge and facilities in today's world. Depends on the individual on how he handles himself. For ex. It is an individuals Choice to be involved in this rat race and succumb to peer pressure. Wise people could be choosing stress-free best life living in India itself. You seem to focus too much on negatives. I also do it many times.

 

 

[mishra]

55 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

And what has been the outcome of this discussion? It is an interesting topic.

 

For example, is it fair to a teenage kid if his/her parents want to return to India and he/she is uprooted from his entire friends circle?

 

@MechEng Why do you say that raising kids in India is not a good idea? 

Let me put some context around it. In India, as kids, we never bothered where we are. In street in parlks, at a corner, near paan vallah. Or troubled by neighbour/acquiantance  who would catch us doing something which we shouldnt be doing or threten us. Boy life is slightly more violent as we had innocent quarrels fights.  So effectively we grew up in a Society where there was love, freedom, rivalry. It has some risks but we understood and meandered through. We mostly ignored Mums advices, and only listened to Mom specially if there was no threat that dad will be told about whatever we were doing. The concept of respect to elders automatically got inculcated. Looking back , we can feel that while growing up, we automatically learned various life lessons by Society.

 

None of above we can afford to provide our children simply because it was from Society. My daughter is sixteen now. As you would have observed, I am a person of strong views so somewhere I passed that to my daughter, She has learned varius skills like art, loves classical music, has exceptional writting skills, probably way better in academic level than I was at this age. She can converse in Hindi without giving you clue that she isnt from India. Now the problem part. All her friends are from selective school with particular mentality and similar background. Since I havent been able to provide Social aspects which I got, She is mostly introvert and effectively will live happily in her room then face the crowd. She has only gone out for shopping only a few times (less than 5) with her friends and never travelled in public transport apart from a aeroplane or guiided tour bus. Yes , she has been overseas on school trips, But thats about it

 

Occasinally we meet kids of people who have just migrated here from India. Those kids may not be as academecally bright or have skills like swim skate but you can immediately tell that their upbringing was in India as they display marked social skill and shrewdness when interacting with us or other kids.

 

Do I think my daughter will be able to adapt in India if I moove today, may be Yes. But it will be tough on her as skill she has gathered growing up in UK are all under Supervision and  India throws at you is concept of living in a Society (Supervised and unseupervised). As a adult, she may after Uni experience but dont think even that will be enough.

 

So, We are generally unanimous, Its unfair on them to moove to India. Similar to its unfair on Parents to be asked to live with us in UK. They may  be able to adjust but chances are they will not.

 

PS: MY parents lived with me for some time in UK and I could feel that they dont like it.  I met a Pakistani lawyer  under mandatory quarantine during Covid, He was just over 60 and had just got UK PR through his kids being EU citizen and was very excited as if he was entering Heaven, I told him, kind of person you are, ie Social, YOu wont last in UK. We are very good friends and we regularly talk over whatsapp from Islamamabad.

Edited January 25 by mishra

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

 

@MechEng Why do you say that raising kids in India is not a good idea? 

 

It's fairly obvious. Unless as a parent you are able to send your kid to an international school, all of them have to endure the brutal rat race. I have also mentioned in my previous post how the young have it hard here to find decent employment.

 

Besides, most cities are ugly, some tier 2 cities are OK like Indore, but there are hardly any decent jobs there.

 

At least you're not pretentious like NRIs here who yearn for India yet cannot imagine to leave their pretty homes in Midwest US or vintage brick homes of the UK.

[Laaloo]

6 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Thanks for the kind words in your earlier post.

 

Its a complicated topic, and its not just macro-economic or social parameters that decide where we decide to stay or if we decide to emigrate. 

 

I can give you my example. I am the youngest of three, and during my childhood I was the least closest to my parents among us kids. Both my elder siblings stay out of India. My brother left for his UG and has never considered a return to India. He prefers life in the US. My sister left later, but she has also been out of the country for a decade+. Of course they visit regularly, but it isn't the same. I used to work with a Law firm and was earmarked for an accelerated career growth trajectory that involved me shifting to our Singapore office. Its what I wanted to do. Almost everyone on my mother's side works in the legal field.

My father was counting on help form my brother in running his businesses here. He never got that help. My father also developed some debilitating health issues which meant that he couldn't work as much and had to have limited time sitting in front of a screen/ on the phone. I have been working with him/ trying to run the show for the last 9-10 years in areas that do not interest me in the least: Ancillary Auto production, weld testing equipment and a distribution business of dry fruits.

If I had a chance to go back in time and re evaluate my options; I would still pick this. I just want to be around my parents in their old age.

Having lived (rather toured) various parts of the US and many other places, I think India is the best place to raise a kid. I wouldn't want to raise my daughter in the US. I may still agree to raise her in the UAE, that's where my sister is, but the place is very sanitised. You don't develop any street smarts if you grow up there.

 

In the end, a Ram Mandir, a Sub prime crisis, a paradigm shift in the way a society thinks do not mean much when you decide to move: your career, proximity to your loved ones, school/friends circle for your kids means everything.

 

 

 

 

Much Respect Mariyam Ji

[bharathh]

39 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

It's fairly obvious. Unless as a parent you are able to send your kid to an international school, all of them have to endure the brutal rat race. I have also mentioned in my previous post how the young have it hard here to find decent employment.

 

Besides, most cities are ugly, some tier 2 cities are OK like Indore, but there are hardly any decent jobs there.

 

At least you're not pretentious like NRIs here who yearn for India yet cannot imagine to leave their pretty homes in Midwest US or vintage brick homes of the UK.

Do you live in India or are you just spouting nonsense from half baked information?

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

Dear Mech Engineer, You seem to have taken it personally my friend. For a moment, think about it keeping aside the personal attacks on you (which you have yourself invited imho).

 

Why Mandir politics is important 1. To build temples in places of importance for Hindus , Ayodhya, Kashi, Mathura. Where mosques were built over the temples.

 

2. Hindus have a tendency to get divided on  caste. Defeating Islamist forces is paramount for the world including for the right thinking Muslims of India(I came across ex Muslim streams on YouTube, actually made me compassionate for muslims) Mandir issue unites Hindus who otherwise could be divided on old pension restoration, caste, region etc.

 

 Other points 

3. Mandir and development, and pollution control are not mutually exclusive. The government has done well on growth front. Plenty of work to be done in many areas.

 

4. I remember Charlie Munger or Warren Buffett saying a common man of today is better off than kings of yesteryears. Such is the level of resources, knowledge and facilities in today's world. Depends on the individual on how he handles himself. For ex. It is an individuals Choice to be involved in this rat race and succumb to peer pressure. Wise people could be choosing stress-free best life living in India itself. You seem to focus too much on negatives. I also do it many times.

 

 

 

You sir,  are barking up the wrong tree. Nobody thinks India is a super power or better off than western countries. But standard of living has improved for the middle class in India by leaps and bounds compared to even 10 years ago.
 

,That condescending ass is so entitled or drowning in self-hate or pity , has no kids, but has sorry ass opinions about raising kids in India. People don’t leave the nation to have fun outside. Life is no cakewalk anywhere. For some, going out of India 20 years ago was the only way out of getting out of liwer-middle class income for their families. Now, it’s not the case. The parents can afford a decent life’s conveniences and good health care. Not every one is born with a silver spoon. If some NRIs don’t come back  they will have personal reasons, this ass is such a sour-puss reductionist thinks they all have bricked mansions and aisho-aaram that they would not want to leave them. 
 

I don’t know which slum he lives in India, he’s always complaining of India being dirty. I have lived in decent gated or non-gated communities in India , it matches the western suburban areas. Agar itna kasht ho raha hain to, give something back to the society. Go clean up where you live or volunteer in NGOs. I volunteered and worked with NGOs , schools to clean up some water areas (lakes( , volunteered to work in slums for the under privileged. Instead of whining on Internet about how bad life is. 

[Muloghonto]

7 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Oh intrepid coloniser: muloghonto da Columbuspadhyay

Pray tell me why, in spite of your diligent efforts to expand the Indospehere, why does the mainstream media in the savage Anglosphere cover the Pran Pratishtha ceremony with scorn/ derision and talk about India being not the inclusive India of the yesteryear.

You have to lobby harder and see to it that the point of view of the Indosphere finds mentions too.

 

 

Because our colonial efforts are only 20 years old and we do not control the western institutions yet. The savage anglosphere media is still controlled by the old guard mostly and the only ones able to make a breakthrough amongst the new guard are the terrorist supporting palestinian interest causes. 

Our goal isnt to use minority power to force our narrative on the anglo media, like the islamists have done. Our goal is to become too big to ignore and too big to mess with, the same way chinese immigration has done in some of the anglo savage countries. 

As they say, demography is destiny - our focus is to simply increase our numbers, bring more people into the dharmic fold and systematically undermine the western way of life. 

The last part is easy, because as statistics show, we are better than westerners at everything in their own countries - higher educated, higher income, lower crime, more successful marriage, less mental illnesses, better raised children, etc. 
In 30-40 years, as our numbers start nearing 20-25% of the population in some of the anglo countries, that is when we will be exercising our demographic might to create the indosphere. 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Because our colonial efforts are only 20 years old and we do not control the western institutions yet. The savage anglosphere media is still controlled by the old guard mostly and the only ones able to make a breakthrough amongst the new guard are the terrorist supporting palestinian interest causes. 

Our goal isnt to use minority power to force our narrative on the anglo media, like the islamists have done. Our goal is to become too big to ignore and too big to mess with, the same way chinese immigration has done in some of the anglo savage countries. 

As they say, demography is destiny - our focus is to simply increase our numbers, bring more people into the dharmic fold and systematically undermine the western way of life. 

The last part is easy, because as statistics show, we are better than westerners at everything in their own countries - higher educated, higher income, lower crime, more successful marriage, less mental illnesses, better raised children, etc. 
In 30-40 years, as our numbers start nearing 20-25% of the population in some of the anglo countries, that is when we will be exercising our demographic might to create the indosphere. 

 

I wonder if there is an intentional effort to "colonize" or if it is just an increase in numbers stemming from people looking for and finding opportunities in the West?  I am inclined to argue for the latter - that people just move where, at a critical point of time in their lives, they find an opportunity to earn a living doing what they are capable of doing. It is more of a pragmatic choice based on individual/family circumstances than a grand scheme to colonize. It could organically (gawd I hate that word) turn into "colonization," but not purposefully.

 

This is obviously conjecture based on anecdotal experiences and understanding.

[someone]

This OP post aren't any different to those saying India is full of poor, hungry people when ISRO reaches MARS.

 

Just taunting and provocation. The idea that India can celebrate, or dream, doesn't digest with some people including Indians...

 

 

[Muloghonto]

47 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I wonder if there is an intentional effort to "colonize" or if it is just an increase in numbers stemming from people looking for and finding opportunities in the West?  I am inclined to argue for the latter - that people just move where, at a critical point of time in their lives, they find an opportunity to earn a living doing what they are capable of doing. It is more of a pragmatic choice based on individual/family circumstances than a grand scheme to colonize. It could organically (gawd I hate that word) turn into "colonization," but not purposefully.

 

This is obviously conjecture based on anecdotal experiences and understanding.

It is both. Indians come to the west to find opportunities, mingle with us NRIs/PIOs and realise what the 'gora game' is - as we are the insiders to their castle- and end up promoting our colonisation efforts  - or they turn into gungadeen waterboys for the goras and go ultra liberal self-hater way. In the past the balance between the two types were 80-20 in favour of the latter ( gungadeens), in the last 10-15 years, its 60-40 in favour of the colonisers. 

 

This isnt anecdotal/conjecture, we have organisations here who are in full promotion of Asian colonisation and we cooperate with other asian groups for this effort ( mostly the non muslim kind, because we fly under the radar and know how to mouth platitudes to satisfy the gora while tending to our objectives, while muslims mostly tend to be too in your face about it and draw unwanted attention). 

Also, we are not the savages of europe - we do not have any desire to exterminate the native population of goras here, or hand out plague blankets or take their land forcefully and confine them to rocky wasteland reservations - we are following in the footsteps of our forefathers who colonised SE Asia in the Asian way - we show up, we keep our culture and values, mix with the locals and get ahead due to our hard work and assimilatory values (where we assimilate the good bits of the host culture). 

This is how SE Asia was colonised by us and the chinese and we can see the resulting difference : the SE Asians love their common cultural and religious roots with us, unlike the natives of the Anglosphere, where they universally hate the savages of Englistan for trying to ( and succeeding magnificiently) in annihilating the local population by force.

 

[MechEng]

Bhai sahab......I never knew ICFers were so vellas to write such lengthy posts!

[gattaca]

13 hours ago, bharathh said:

Do you live in India or are you just spouting nonsense from half baked information?

He is in US and searching for job frustrated by the looks of it. Hindus are the target and NRIs specifically in this case.

[gattaca]

.

Edited January 26 by gattaca

[mishra]

On 1/25/2024 at 5:36 PM, MechEng said:

Bhai sahab......I never knew ICFers were so vellas to write such lengthy posts!

If u haven’t got time for urself, Most likely u are still doing blue collar job in white collar , colloquially referred as “Gadha Majoori”